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  1. #1
    nice555 is offline New Member
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    Smile Please help me picking a cycle!

    I am seriously considering starting a steroid cycle but my problem is that I don't know where to start.

    My aim is to generally beef up with a good cut like that bloke on the cover of Mens Health magazines. After training regularly for the past 2yrs (between 4-5 times a week) I don't seem to be getting anywhere fast.

    My diet is standard although I do refrain from junk food and do consume plenty of tuna and various meat aswell as pasta.

    Due to the amount of information on the web it is somewhat overwhelming and nobody seems to give me a straight answer on what to take, when, how much and for how long.

    One slight problem, any steroid that I take will have to be ORAL as I have one hell of a fear for needles (pathetic I know but we all have our weaknessess).

    Could someone who is or has experience in this field please give me an ideal starter cycle or at least a suggestion.

    Thank you for reading this and many more thanks for replying.

    Nice

  2. #2
    Streitingen's Avatar
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    I probably should not give you this advice, but you will find out anyway An only oral cycle is NOT recommended as the gains is poor and the stress on the liver is major. It's very important not to exceed the limits of intake and length of the cycle. Are you not ready for needles, your are not ready for juice...

    Here is an suggestion for an oral only cycle:
    Week 1-6: Dianabol @30mg ED
    Week 3-8: Winstrol @50mg ED
    Week 6-8: Anavar @40mg ED
    Week 9-11 (start the 1st day after last steroid tab):Nolvadex @20mg ED
    Week 9-11: Clomid @300mg 1st day, @100mg ED next 10 days, @50mg ED last 20 days.
    Week 1-13: Milk Thistle consentrate @140mg ED (min.)

  3. #3
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    Get over yourself, fear of the needle is played up from being a kid an getting shots. If you're not ready to use a needle do consider steroids . Orals can be hard on your liver and the cycle above I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy (well I might )

    Beside if you want to look like the guys in men's health you don't need gear, those guys are cut but not big at all.

    JohnnyB

  4. #4
    nice555 is offline New Member
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    Thanks Streitingen, now I seem to be getting somewhere.

    Just a couple of questions. Weeks 1-8 look pretty straight forward, however, week 9 is a little confusing.

    If week 8 ended on a Sunday and week 9 starts Monday is that when I start taking Nolvadex ?

    Are all these tabs taken together ie; Dinabol an Winstrol clash between weeks 3-6 as does Winstrol and Anavar (week 6-8), or are they taken at different intervals during the day?

    What happens after week 13? Do you just stop?

    And finally are these taken with food or without as I know from certain medicines some are suggested without?

    Thanks a million for replying so quick.

  5. #5
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    Oral cycles are not worth it and something tells me your diet is the problem here? You want to look like the guy on front of Mens Health Magazines? You don't need steroids for that as they tend to be small framed, just very cut and showing a great set of abs. This can be achieved through strict diet/cardio and weight training.

  6. #6
    nice555 is offline New Member
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    Thanks for your reply.

    This is the dilema I keep comming accross. Some suggest take this and then others suggest something else. I wish now that I study chemistry at university. I never thought something like this could be so bloody frustrating in attempting.

    If I did try the above cycle what would it do, as you seem very certain that it is no good? I don't want to come accross as deffiant I am only trying to get the right information before attempting anything, as the last thing I want to do is end up in a box.

    Cheers.

    Nice

  7. #7
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    before you use orals you should understand what 17-alpha-alkylated is and what it means for your liver.

    http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...e-steroids.htm

    this might help explain why the above cycle is scary.
    Last edited by user1000; 10-21-2005 at 01:10 PM.

  8. #8
    eGGz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nice555
    Thanks Streitingen, now I seem to be getting somewhere.

    Just a couple of questions. Weeks 1-8 look pretty straight forward, however, week 9 is a little confusing.

    If week 8 ended on a Sunday and week 9 starts Monday is that when I start taking Nolvadex ?

    Are all these tabs taken together ie; Dinabol an Winstrol clash between weeks 3-6 as does Winstrol and Anavar (week 6-8), or are they taken at different intervals during the day?

    What happens after week 13? Do you just stop?

    And finally are these taken with food or without as I know from certain medicines some are suggested without?

    Thanks a million for replying so quick.
    Just because you got an answer that you think you wanted to hear does not always mean it is a good answer. I'd suggest you do some research before you possibly hurt yourself.

    Listen to JohnnyB, he has the experience period.

    Streitingen's cycle has three 17aa liver abusive orals and no testosterone .

    A dbol /winny/anavar cycle will shut down your natural testosterone production. At this point you will be running without the natural occuring hormone that makes you male.

    Think about it.

  9. #9
    edmen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streitingen
    I probably should not give you this advice, but you will find out anyway An only oral cycle is NOT recommended as the gains is poor and the stress on the liver is major. It's very important not to exceed the limits of intake and length of the cycle. Are you not ready for needles, your are not ready for juice...

    Here is an suggestion for an oral only cycle:
    Week 1-6: Dianabol @30mg ED
    Week 3-8: Winstrol @50mg ED
    Week 6-8: Anavar @40mg ED
    Week 9-11 (start the 1st day after last steroid tab):Nolvadex @20mg ED
    Week 9-11: Clomid @300mg 1st day, @100mg ED next 10 days, @50mg ED last 20 days.
    Week 1-13: Milk Thistle consentrate @140mg ED (min.)
    cardio and diet=cuts. with an all oral the only person u will look like is sponge bob due to the jaundice that will set in from that cycle. dont be a stubborn fool and try an all oral cycle u wouldnt want to b that one that needs a liver transplant! streight's post was perfect until he laid out that cycle for u if he had more experience here he would never have done that. newbies seem to have selective reading yall only read what u want.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nice555
    Thanks for your reply.

    This is the dilema I keep comming accross. Some suggest take this and then others suggest something else. I wish now that I study chemistry at university. I never thought something like this could be so bloody frustrating in attempting.

    If I did try the above cycle what would it do, as you seem very certain that it is no good? I don't want to come accross as deffiant I am only trying to get the right information before attempting anything, as the last thing I want to do is end up in a box.

    Cheers.

    Nice
    **I never liked needles, just like everyone else.... Then i got my gear and pulled out the 1.5in. needle and said to myself, i cant do it.. I just wasted $1,200... My wife said she would inject me, it took 30min. before i got the nerve to let her do it, while sweat poured all over, it was a piece of cake, i still get nervous at every shot, but i actually feel relieved once its in, i dont even feel it... The glute shot is actually painless.... yeah, from what i researched the oral cycle is not a good choice at all..... you only have ONE liver.... Liver vs. needle......?

  11. #11
    nice555 is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the advice but rest assure I am not going to jump into this. All I want is straight advice on what I thought was a simple problem.

    All suggestions are greatly recieved.

    If I went to my doctor over a medical condition he would prescribe me a course of medication as simple as that. That is what kind of answers I am looking for here. You wont believe the amount of web sites that I have visited but now I want straight answers from people in the know.

    Thanks again for your advice. Much appreicited.

    Nice

  12. #12
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    web sites are giving u a sales pitch! order some pins and get some sterile saline and have someone inject u and see how painless needles are. imo needle pain is a stereotype.

  13. #13
    edmen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nice555
    Thanks for the advice but rest assure I am not going to jump into this. All I want is straight advice on what I thought was a simple problem.

    All suggestions are greatly recieved.

    If I went to my doctor over a medical condition he would prescribe me a course of medication as simple as that. That is what kind of answers I am looking for here. You wont believe the amount of web sites that I have visited but now I want straight answers from people in the know.

    Thanks again for your advice. Much appreicited.

    Nice
    im a nurse and a doc would not prescribe 3 oral steroids at once!

  14. #14
    nice555 is offline New Member
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    Ok then, as a couple of people are giving you good praises on your knowledge of this. Lets say that I embrace my fear of needles (oh the thought of it -LOL), what would you recomend?

    I'm all ears, seriously. As I keep saying, I'll take advice from those who have experience in this after all it is like playing with fire.

    Nice

  15. #15
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    medications a doctor prescribes are invariably corrective (i.e. TRT), which usually means simple.

    what you are doing with steroids is the opposite of corrective. using steroids puts your body, as a system, out of line (increased estrogen, suppressed natural test production), and you need to understand why and how that happens and what else you need to do to counter those effects (e.g. PCT - post cycle therapy ).

    PCT is the most important part of the cycle, so if you dont understand what is happening beyond week 8 of the oral cycle above then you really need to do way more research.

  16. #16
    nice555 is offline New Member
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    Right, so oral steroids are out then. Christ something told me that this would happen LOL.

    What would you recomend? After all there are hundreds of different products to choose from. To give you some kind of idea, I want to increase in size and reduce body fat and have some results pretty quick. I am under no illusion that, say, after one week I'm going to look like some kind of sex God. I do live in the real world.

    nice

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmen2
    with an all oral the only person u will look like is sponge bob due


    JohnnyB

  18. #18
    edmen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nice555
    Ok then, as a couple of people are giving you good praises on your knowledge of this. Lets say that I embrace my fear of needles (oh the thought of it -LOL), what would you recomend?

    I'm all ears, seriously. As I keep saying, I'll take advice from those who have experience in this after all it is like playing with fire.

    Nice
    as a first cycle all would usually recommend a test only cycle like cyp or enth. but please research test e or cyp to learn all the side effects and what ur body will be going thru also research gyno prevention and pct. steroids are a very powerful chemical and they are not something that u can say "gee, i think im gonna do some steroids startin monday!" please do ur research on different compounds by using the search button here and we will be glad to help with anything u cant find or dont understand.

  19. #19
    user1000's Avatar
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    search in the forums for 'first cycle'

    here is my first cycle planned to start in a couple of months, I've spent a year researching (forums/anabolics 2005/etc.) before considering doing a cycle, and I'm still researching now.

    First Cycle (UK style?)

  20. #20
    nice555 is offline New Member
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    Thanks. Advice taken on board. I'll be in touch. Thanks again for your help.

  21. #21
    coleb61 is offline New Member
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    You should try the HIT workout. For 90% of the guys out their, working out 5 days a week is way too much if you are not on gear. I went that route for a couple of years and finally discovered working out 2 days a week yeilded a lot better results for a natural guy.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by coleb61
    You should try the HIT workout. For 90% of the guys out their, working out 5 days a week is way too much if you are not on gear. I went that route for a couple of years and finally discovered working out 2 days a week yeilded a lot better results for a natural guy.
    2 days?

  23. #23
    SensP is offline Associate Member
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    If you're dead set on all-oral cycle, it can be done safely and effectively.

    Var 50mg ed for 8 weeks
    1000 mg of milk thistle ed for 8 weeks

    You might only get 5-10 lbs, but with proper pct you will keep all of them. I hear of guys doing Superdrol only cycles and getting similar results. Superdrol is available over the counter and is pretty cheap. But just because it's available over the counter, don't think you can skimp on the pct.

    Personally, if I were you I'd just get over your fear of needles and do 400-500 mg of testosterone cypionate a week for 12-16 weeks. Even better, get over your fear of needles, and inject 75mg of testosterone propitionate ed for 8 weeks. The shorter estered prop will give you a lot less water bloat than cyp. But hey, most people aren't ready for ed injects their first time (didn't bother me--used multi ester blend) so the cyp will be fine.

    You are looking to put on some mass right?

    If your only objective is to get really cut, then diet and cardio are the key. This can be supplemented with stuff like ephedrine, clenbuterol and T3, but these must be used only with a lot of research beforehand, as they can be dangerous.

  24. #24
    edmen2's Avatar
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    but if ur on a budget dont even think of 50mg of anavar ed for 8 wks. even at a dollar per 5mg tab which i doubt u will find being a newb thats 630 dollars.

  25. #25
    SensP is offline Associate Member
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    Yeah. Expensive shit.

  26. #26
    edmen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensP
    Yeah. Expensive shit.
    that dont even include his pct and thistle.

  27. #27
    ranran is offline Junior Member
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    He needs to research more....period.

    IMHO--no pins = no steroids . Do the research...get over your fear of needles or stay away from them.

  28. #28
    edmen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranran
    He needs to research more....period.

    IMHO--no pins = no steroids. Do the research...get over your fear of needles or stay away from them.
    aint that why he said he would see us later.

  29. #29
    jnx3k is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranran
    He needs to research more....period.

    IMHO--no pins = no steroids. Do the research...get over your fear of needles or stay away from them.
    agreed. its not that bad. really. i think most of us all hated needles at one point, but now its nothing. However, i will admit, i dont give myself my own injections. Not cause I am scared, just cause i don't want to mess something up. Im gonna give myself a jab sometime.

  30. #30
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    I agree with most other people here. An all oral cycle is bad...very hard on your liver.

    I am guessing you signed up for the same reason I did....to learn more about AAS, proper diet and lifting. Do the research and get over the fear of needles! I don't like them either but I get my flu shot every year and every year...I think the shot is going to suck way more than it actually does. Speaking of flu shots....aren't the pins used for the flu shot and most AAS about the same size???

  31. #31
    edmen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneLifter
    I agree with most other people here. An all oral cycle is bad...very hard on your liver.

    I am guessing you signed up for the same reason I did....to learn more about AAS, proper diet and lifting. Do the research and get over the fear of needles! I don't like them either but I get my flu shot every year and every year...I think the shot is going to suck way more than it actually does. Speaking of flu shots....aren't the pins used for the flu shot and most AAS about the same size???
    alot of times hospitals use bigger pins. the only reason i dont take pins from work is because the facility where i work only orders 21g.

  32. #32
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    i cant imagine letting somebody else jab me, itd be plain weird, i need to feel like im in control incase i feel ive hit a vein,and u can tell sometimes by the pain,even before you aspirate ,seriously bro, injecting is a doddle, once u do it once or twice itl be easy!

  33. #33
    Charged_UP is offline Associate Member
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    Online ur only going to find opinions, this is not an exact science. When u go to the doctor they throw the pin in u like its a dart and just shoot it in without a thought. Sure u can mess up but i have never had a problem and i have no idea how many hundreds of shots ive done. Stop looking for the easy way by taking all these tabs that are harsh on ur liver. When u click on the forums site the first thing u see is a pic of a needle, that should give u a clue. Fear is in ur head. Ull be cool, there is a good site that i can reccomend that shows u where to stick the shots. I dont know if i can list sites on this board though. As for a stack, I would just do more reading and try to filter out all the bs out there. Cyp or Enth are essential or maybe some blend like sust or duratest. From there its all opinions on peoples experiences.

  34. #34
    ODC0717 is offline Anabolic Member
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    Get ove your fear. My first cycle included prop which was shot EOD and I couldn't wait for my next shot. Orals only is a waste of time IMO, just it is everyone else's. It's been my experience that cat's recommend "oral only" cycles because they fear the needle. It's not that bad. Research, a lot, then do it some more. 500mg of a single estered test wil do the trick, inject e3d, and run the compund for 10-12 weeks.

  35. #35
    nice555 is offline New Member
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    Hi

    As much as I'm appreciating all this feedback you are all missing the point. First I do have a natural fear of needles just like some people have a fear of buttons or feathers, however, regarding using needles if that is what I have to do then I have no choice but to try and over come my fear as hard as it maybe (I want results), the second point is that there are hundreds of different types of drugs. You read about one and think "yeah that's for me" then you read about another and think "maybe I should try this one" and so on. I don't have a chemistry degree to help me decide. It's all right all you people saying do research if you don't know what exactly it is you are researching. For example, I know enough about cars to know what to buy to do what I want it do but if you asked me to go a buy a motorcycle, other than what it looks like I wouldn't have a clue, and that is the same here.

    I was going down the oral option as at the time as it seemed like the best option for me although you have all stressed otherwise for various reasons.

    I have an ideal physique that I would like to achieve and I know what my body is like and I can diet and pump iron until the day I die and I wont achieve my goal, hence needing some sort of supplement.

    I asked about stacking cycles as web sites suggest that by mixing various steroids you get better results. If for example somebody suggested (and this is strictly talking off the top of my head) take two asprin before training, I would consider attempting it.

    I'm under no illusions how dangerous steroids can be if taken incorrectly and I'm also no idiot to try anything that I'm not sure about.

    What I was hoping from this forum is some general advice to get me started, ie take x mg of this for 4 weeks and see how you get on, when x maybe a mild version of what the more experienced user would use.

    I can sit here and pick drugs out and make what I might think is an alright stack only to find that I end up with some kind of overdose.

    Obviously I can't go to my doctor and ask him as he is obviously going to tell me "no way" When I joined this web site I had for the past 2 months looked at various other sites on the subject and what they offer, and they also offer a sales pitch.

    So, if using just one steroid for a time is the ideal way of starting then please say so and also what you would recomend or the same if it is stacking.

    I am after all the aprentice here wanting to leard from those in the know.

    Thanks again

    Nice

  36. #36
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    These bulking cycles are just for example:

    First cycle:
    Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500mg EW

    Second cycle:
    Weeks 1-4 Dbol @ 30mg ED
    Weeks 1-12 Test E or C @ 500mg EW

    Third cycle:
    Weeks 1-4 Dbol @ 30mg ED
    Weeks 1-14 Test E or C @ 500mg EW
    Weeks 1-12 Deca @ 400mg EW

  37. #37
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    one of the things u have to do here is filter thru the clutter but if u remember my previous post i stated to research test e and cyp and recommended a test only cycle. imo u should go with the first cycle eggz laid out. my first cycle was test only my body tolerated it fine, 2nd was test tren once again tolerated fine, third cycle was test deca and my b/p shot thru the roof. i dropped the deca and b/p returned to normal if i would have stacked them on my first cycle i would not have known which compound caused my rise in b/p.

  38. #38
    ranran is offline Junior Member
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    Great advice from Eggz and Edmen2,

    quote "like some people have a fear of buttons and feathers?"

    You got me, I am terrified of feathers!
    Last edited by ranran; 10-22-2005 at 02:56 PM.

  39. #39
    nice555 is offline New Member
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    Cheers mate now I really do think I'm getting somewhere.

  40. #40
    edmen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nice555
    Cheers mate now I really do think I'm getting somewhere.
    let u know what u choose and when u are devirginized!

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