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  1. #1
    dazbo's Avatar
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    3rd cycle advice for after xmas

    Hey

    I have done 2 cycles previously, then an injury which Ive had for around 2 years, decided to make me have to stop training to rest it. Its a long story which I wont get into but Ive been off for 3 months of complete training (Other than football). During this time, Ive gained some fat that Id lost back and also lost some of the hard earned muscle! In total, Im down about 1st, and BF up a couple of % or so, and strength dropped quite a bit!

    Anyway, its now been 2 weeks or so since starting back. The injury is still there but the docs do F all for it! I am about to be getting some natural therapy help on it this week. Anyway, the injury is no where near as bad as it was. When I train I just keep away from what causes the pain a lot and things have gone well so far. Strength is now getting picked back up too.

    So, my first cycle which was early this year, was a poorly researched sus/deca /dbol at v low doses (Got all my info from mick hart!! Before finding this site). I gained some weight from it, but did poor PCT and lost it all!! Then I did a test prop/var cycle, gained a little bit but not much but did feel like fat had been lost, so turned out not as bad a cycle as I first thought! (Its only when I see my shape now that I realise how much I got out of that cycle!)

    Then the injury kicked in a it all went down hill! ended up being slightly less than the start weight, and basically where I am now.

    I want to do a cycle after xmas. Heres what I was thinking -

    wk 1-12 = Deca @ 200/250mg EW
    wk 1-14 = Test Enth @ 750mg EW
    Nolva as and when needed, and B6 daily 200mg oral.

    PCT - wk 16-19 = Clomid 300/100/50mg and nolva 20mg ED plus tribulus/tongkat ali.

    Ive been reading a couple of posts lately regarding Dbol and its doses. From what Ive read, I was wondering instead of using it to jumpstart @ around 30mg, what if I took it at a low dose of 10mg ED for the full 12wks ? I know all the downsides of orals for long periods, but at this low dosage, I thought it would help keep the DBol's gains more, and not stress the liver.

    The idea of this cycle is to gain as much muscle mass as possible.

    Also, the reason I have the test @ 750mg, is becuase ive read many places, and from hookers info (Hooker I regard as the best source of advice there is) that the gains made on cycle are directly proportional to the amount of AAS used - more does equal more gains.

    Im using the deca to help with my joint problems and keeping it fairly low to account for the high test amount. I also want a more keepable amount of muscle mass.

    One more question. not regarding this cycle, but more, cycles in general. Once youve finished with a cycle, calling it your last one, if you train correctly, and eat correctly, will you likely keep the extra size for the years to come, even if it has takne you past your genetic potential ?

    Thanks again guys for all the advice!

    Darren

  2. #2
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    I would take the deca at least at 400mg/wk

  3. #3
    vitor is offline Anabolic Member
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    Im sure most will disagree with me, but it would be much better to run 10mgs dbol for the full 12 weeks in my opinion. Dbol jumpstart only gives me water. Steroid guru "Bill Roberts" said that some of the gains from steroids (even if you are over your natrual limit will be permanent), about 1/4 not counting water. Because of more meature muscle cells, caused by increased protein syntheize. hope my english isnt to bad, ime from Europe.........

  4. #4
    dazbo's Avatar
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    Thanks so far for that guys. I will prob jump the Deca up then if thats what needs to be done. Everything else look ok with it ? I feel like wi th past cycle Ive used the Dbol , the gains came in the first week or so, then they dwindled to practically no more gains from then on so it must have been water.

    So, Ill prob either use the Dbol at 10mg ED for the cycle, to hopefully keep more of the gains, or just not use it at all. Obviously if someone says 10mg ED is bad, I wont do that.

    Thanks so far

  5. #5
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    bump

  6. #6
    dazbo's Avatar
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    I think the length of the post is putting people off reading it ! lol

  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    i would not use the dbol for the duration of the cycle,10mg imo is pretty pointless!if your gonna run it use 40mg ed for the 1st 4 weeks to give you a "jump",run the test at 750 and the deca should be ran at 400mg,make sure you run the test at least 1 week longer than the deca,and run your pct after.

  9. #9
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    I have had the same experience with the dbol for a jumpstart....about 9-10lbs within about 10 days, after that not much. I like jumpstarting with Test Prop much better because any weight you put on is Lean Mass.

  10. #10
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    yes prop would be a better choice for a "jump"!

  11. #11
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    I realise everything you have said booz but it hasnt worked in the past and just seemed a waste. Then I came across some posts regarding using it over the length of time at a low dose to get more keepable, but less noticeable gains. I thought it would be worth a go ?

    Anyone who has done this, please let me know your experiences with it and Hooker, if you have any good info regarding dbol at low dose over a long period, I would appreciate your input - if you get time.

    Anyway, I appreciate your inputs and to be honest, I think I would prefer to use prop as a jump start. This Ive never done before but would it go summit like this -

    wk 1-12 = Deca @ 400mg EW
    wk 1-2 = Test Prop @ 100mg EOD
    wk 1-14 = Test Enth @ 750mg EW
    wk 12-15 = DBol @ 30mg ED

    Nolva as and when needed, and B6 daily 200mg oral.
    PCT - wk 16-18 = Clomid 300/100/50mg and nolva 20mg ED plus tribulus/tongkat ali.

    The only thing with this is, for the first 2 weeks I would be on a total of over 1.6g of AAS. How will my body react to this ?? Or when I front load, should I drop the amount of enth just for those 2 weeks ?? so it would look like this -

    wk 1-12 = Deca @ 400mg EW
    wk 1-2 = Test Prop @ 100mg EOD + Test Enth @ 500mg EW = 850mg Test
    wk 3-14 = Test Enth @ 750mg EW
    wk 12-15 = DBol @ 30mg ED

    Also, I forgot to put my stats -

    23, 5'10", currently 187lbs approx 12%BF,17.5" arms, 30" waist, 47" chest. Best shape been - 200lbs, approx 8-9%BF, 18" arms, 48" chest, 30" waist. Max bench - 375lbs, leg press 1150lbs, squat 440lbs, Deadlift 475lbs, shoulder press 320lbs. Training 7 yrs

    thanks

  12. #12
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    bump

  13. #13
    dazbo's Avatar
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    no more replies ?

  14. #14
    dazbo's Avatar
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    BTW, when I say front load, what I really mean is jumpstart! Is 2 weeks jump start with prop enough or would 3/4 be better ?

    What if I jumpstart AND frontload. so basically it would be option in post number 11 wouldnt it?

    Thanks

    darren

    P.S. I would like to know what to expect from those high doses at the start of the cycle please too.

  15. #15
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    bump - not getting much help on this one

  16. #16
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    4 Week jump start is good. It takes about 5 weeks for the enanthate to kick in and about 6 for the deca .

    If you can handle the ED shots 5 weeks on prop wouldnt hurt

  17. #17
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    if I was doing prop, it would be EOD. I did this on my last cycle with no problems.

    Thanks for replying, need more oppinions though please guys!

  18. #18
    dazbo's Avatar
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    this has been up for 3 days now and ive only had replies of 2/3 people with 6 posts. I cant understand why I cant get many replies on this ? Good job ive got till xmas! lol

    If someone could care to give some advice please

    thanks

  19. #19
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    Too much to read in you question, ask like this:

    I'm 6'
    xxx Lbs

    done x amount of cycles in the past
    last one was (for example)
    Test E1-10
    Dbol wks1-4

    My next cycle

    wks1-13 500mg/wk Test E
    wks1-12 400mg/wk Deca
    wks1-4 30mg ED Dbol

    What do you think?

  20. #20
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    If you want a "kickstart" then fronload with prop or use the dbol at 40-50 mg ed for the first 4 weeks. I think dbol for 10 weeks at that low dose would not be harmful, but would basically be a waste of gear and provide little of no kick at the beginning. IMO dbol at 10 mg ed may as wll be thrown in the toilet.

  21. #21
    eGGz's Avatar
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    Jump w/dbol :
    1-4 Dbol @ 50mg ED
    1-14 Test E or C @ 750mg EW
    1-12 Deca @ 500mg EW
    1-16 Vit B-6 @ 200mg ED
    1-16 Nolva @ 10mg ED
    1-16 A-dex @ .25mg ED

    or

    Jump w/prop:
    1-4 Prop @ 100mg ED
    1-14 Test E or C @ 750mg EW
    1-12 Deca @ 500mg EW
    1-16 Vit B-6 @ 200mg ED
    1-16 Nolva @ 10mg ED
    1-16 A-dex @ .25mg ED

    PCT:
    15-16 HCG @ 500iu EOD
    17-20 Clomid @ 100mg ED
    17-20 Nolva @ 20mg ED
    17-20 A-dex @ .5mg ED

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortie
    If you want a "kickstart" then fronload with prop or use the dbol at 40-50 mg ed for the first 4 weeks. I think dbol for 10 weeks at that low dose would not be harmful, but would basically be a waste of gear and provide little of no kick at the beginning. IMO dbol at 10 mg ed may as wll be thrown in the toilet.
    those were my thoughts exactly short,i mentioned somethin along those lines earlier!

  23. #23
    dazbo's Avatar
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    wk 1-12 = Deca @ 400/500mg EW
    wk 1-2 = Test Prop @ 100mg EOD + Test Enth @ 750mg EW = 1100mg Test
    wk 3-14 = Test Enth @ 750mg EW
    1-16 Vit B-6 @ 200mg ED
    1-16 Nolva @ 10mg EOD

    PCT:
    15-16 HCG @ 500iu EOD
    17-19 Clomid @ 300/100/50mg ED
    17-19 Nolva @ 20mg ED

    Thanks guys. So what about above ?

    Cheers

  24. #24
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    I would run the prop for the first 4 weeks, to give the longer esters time to build up sufficiently.

    And if you want you can run prop at the end of the cycle upto 3 days before your pct so that you dont have nothing in your system for the week or two until pct


    Everything else looks good.

  25. #25
    G-1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazbo
    wk 1-12 = Deca @ 400/500mg EW
    wk 1-2 = Test Prop @ 100mg EOD + Test Enth @ 750mg EW = 1100mg Test
    wk 3-14 = Test Enth @ 750mg EW
    1-16 Vit B-6 @ 200mg ED
    1-16 Nolva @ 10mg EOD

    PCT:
    15-16 HCG @ 500iu EOD
    17-19 Clomid @ 300/100/50mg ED
    17-19 Nolva @ 20mg ED

    Thanks guys. So what about above ?

    Cheers
    This will be much better

    wk 1-12 = Deca @ 500mg EW
    wk 1-4 = Test Prop @ 100mg ED
    wk 1-2 = test e 1000mg
    wk 2-14 = Test Enth @ 750mg EW split does 2x week
    1-16 Vit B-6 @ 200mg ED
    1-16 Nolva @ 10mg ED

    PCT:
    12-13 and 15-16 HCG @ 2000iu 2x week
    17-19 Clomid @ 300/100/50mg ED
    17-19 Nolva @ 20mg ED

  26. #26
    dazbo's Avatar
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    Hi

    Sorry I actually made 2 mistakes in that last cycle - its cos I copied and pasted my original! Anyway, it should have looked like this -

    wk 1-12 = Deca @ 400/500mg EW (Depends whether I get 200mg amps or 250mg)
    wk 1-4 = Test Prop @ 100mg EOD + Test Enth @ 750mg EW = 1100mg Test
    wk 1-14 = Test Enth @ 750mg EW
    1-16 Vit B-6 @ 200mg ED
    1-16 Nolva @ 10mg ED

    PCT:
    15-16 HCG @ 2000iu 2xwk/500iu EOD - (I will read up a bit more on the dosage of this before deciding what to do - for example, hookers profiles.)
    17-19 Clomid @ 300/100/50mg ED
    17-19 Nolva @ 20mg ED

    GSXXR - Are you saying for me to do 2200mg worth of test in the first 2 weeks ?????!?! That seems a bit too high for me, I dont wanna overdo it. Also, I def wont be doing prop ED, it will be 100mg EOD there.

    Thanks again guys I appreciate the help you give

  27. #27
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    wk 1-4 = Test Prop @ 100mg EOD + Test Enth @ 750mg EW = 1100mg Test

    Your actual test level will be much lower due to the fact that the enanthate ester has a long half-life. It takes 4-6 weeks to even get close to your weekly injection dosages.

    That is why gsxxr gave you those recomendations.

  28. #28
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    Im going to start a new shorter post with the above cycle on for people to comment and give advice, ill link them t this post too on it.

    thanks

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