Tren gains... on Tren-A and Test-P

**Two4the$$** · 10-24-2005, 03:38 AM

I'm on my 2nd week of Tren ... entering my third. I'm easily up 10 pounds over my last cycles finishing body weight. I'm not sure where it all is... but it's here. This is my 3rd week of the cycle... where do you guys find the results from Tren really start amounting? I'm on

Tren-A 85mg ED
Test-P 150mg ED

I'll be adding Masteron starting Tuesday at 75mg ED...

Thinking of Adding EQ at 700mg per week also...

**marcus300** · 10-24-2005, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

I'm on my 2nd week of Tren ... entering my third. I'm easily up 10 pounds over my last cycles finishing body weight. I'm not sure where it all is... but it's here. This is my 3rd week of the cycle... where do you guys find the results from Tren really start amounting? I'm on

Tren-A 85mg ED
Test-P 150mg ED

I'll be adding Masteron starting Tuesday at 75mg ED...

Thinking of Adding EQ at 700mg per week also...

i normaly feel the first effects of tren around the 10-14 days,,then a gradual increase over the follow weeks.....

**Two4the$$** · 10-24-2005, 06:47 AM

okay, cool.

**dragon69** · 10-24-2005, 09:40 AM

truman that's a nice cycle you got there. Add the masteron right away I think.
Not sure about the eq only because it can add to the sides of the tren due to some more potential progesterone.

I would however add some winstrol since tren is a progestin and winstrol blocks the progesterone receptor. That is my cycle right there minus the masteron.
I have also upped my test to 130mg ed and I like it better than 100 so 150 sounds awesome.

**alo5603** · 10-24-2005, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

okay, cool.

hey truman, is this your first cycle? Dont remember if ya told me or not, but if it is, or even if its your second, you dont need all those compounds. You dont even need 150mgs of prop ED either. More is not always better, unless youve been cycleing for years.

alo

**Two4the$$** · 10-24-2005, 10:06 AM

EQ isn't progestenic - but this definitely explains why you didn't want to add it to your cycle. Masteron is an Anti-E, actually, thats what it was originally used medically for if I recall correctly.

**Two4the$$** · 10-24-2005, 10:07 AM

Alo, thanks ... but it's a fact, regardless of the number of cycles you have ... that gains are DOSE dependant. FACT. Prove otherwise.

This is cycle number two.

**alo5603** · 10-24-2005, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Alo, thanks ... but it's a fact, regardless of the number of cycles you have ... that gains are DOSE dependant. FACT. Prove otherwise.

This is cycle number two.

well if that is a so called FACT as you so well put it, then why do some get exceptionally well gains on low doses of a compound of test, while others who have juiced for awhile need 3x as much to get the same gains? Hmmm explain that truman. And no, not all veteran juicers are huge as hell so need to up the dosage to put extra pounds on.

alo

**alo5603** · 10-24-2005, 12:07 PM

and you being not a huge guy yourself and only on cycle #2, you would get incredible gains at 100mgs ED of prop without all the other compoounds, and you wouldnt have a hard time keepin it.

alo

**Two4the$$** · 10-24-2005, 12:27 PM

Alo... I'm simply not going to engage in this. To me, your replies seem to indicate that you stick to the new posts on AR, and do little browsing around on the internet, let alone searching for things. I'm not going to do you the favor of siting the threads that support my position. I'm not changing my cycle to suite your misinformed position. Gains are dose-dependant. The end. Eventually... you'll accidentally come across things that cause you to re-think your position... but if they weren't dose dependant... why then do we need more than the actual 7ish mg per day that we create? Isn't THAT a strong validation?

**sniper320** · 10-24-2005, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Alo... I'm simply not going to engage in this. To me, your replies seem to indicate that you stick to the new posts on AR, and do little browsing around on the internet, let alone searching for things. I'm not going to do you the favor of siting the threads that support my position. I'm not changing my cycle to suite your misinformed position. Gains are dose-dependant. The end. Eventually... you'll accidentally come across things that cause you to re-think your position... but if they weren't dose dependant... why then do we need more than the actual 7ish mg per day that we create? Isn't THAT a strong validation?

HUH?

**Two4the$$** · 10-24-2005, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by sniper320

HUH?

Whats your question?

**alo5603** · 10-24-2005, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Alo... I'm simply not going to engage in this. To me, your replies seem to indicate that you stick to the new posts on AR, and do little browsing around on the internet, let alone searching for things. I'm not going to do you the favor of siting the threads that support my position. I'm not changing my cycle to suite your misinformed position. Gains are dose-dependant. The end. Eventually... you'll accidentally come across things that cause you to re-think your position... but if they weren't dose dependant... why then do we need more than the actual 7ish mg per day that we create? Isn't THAT a strong validation?

dude, im not askin for you to cite anything. I can really give a rats ass where you get your info. Think about this, most guys youve seen on here, when doin say there 3rd or 4th cycle, have like an average between 500mgs and 750mgs of test... If YOU are doin 150mgs of prop ED, your doin over a gram and for what? You honestly think YOUR little body is going to use all of that? I highly doubt it. But its your money, i was tryin to be a friend and help you save your money. and as for only lookin at new threads, i dont have to look at old ones. My info comes from PERSONAL experience, and the experience of friends i KNOW in person, including an IFBB pro. But hey, like i said, its your money.

alo

**Two4the$$** · 10-24-2005, 06:35 PM

But ... It's cheap for me. So the $$ isn't the issue. And really ... it's not like your body grows ressistant to AAS... if anything ... with more muscle - you have MORE receptors... but 10 pounds is a SMALLER % change of a persons body at 250 than it is at 180... which sort of confuses people. But... all medical things I've read show INCREASED affect from INCREASED dosage. So, your anecdotal unscientific inference from your buddies means nothing - at least not compared to statistics. Anyway, all the predicates to your belief are based on flawed logic. Please, take my word for it, find other criteria for believing in something.

**dragon69** · 10-24-2005, 08:16 PM

I like your cycle man....as I have stated.
Add some winstrol . The progesterone thing is in hookers profile and many other profiles on the net which is where I got it from (I crossreference them to check for congruentcy).

Do the cycle as planned truman, but with the winny in there. Winstrol stacks extremely well with prop/tren (works synergestically) which is well known and is the stack of champions from what I hear.

Don't have any further comment on the EQ. Should be interesting to see what happens although I DO think there's already enough in there.

***SPIKE*** · 10-24-2005, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

I'm on my 2nd week of Tren ... entering my third. I'm easily up 10 pounds over my last cycles finishing body weight. I'm not sure where it all is... but it's here. This is my 3rd week of the cycle... where do you guys find the results from Tren really start amounting? I'm on

Tren-A 85mg ED
Test-P 150mg ED

I'll be adding Masteron starting Tuesday at 75mg ED...

Thinking of Adding EQ at 700mg per week also...

Truman best of luck buddy. You're a smart MoFo and I know you'll do well..

**Two4the$$** · 10-24-2005, 08:55 PM

Thanks guys!

Dragon! :-) The Masteron !!! That's my DHT supplement ... it's better than winny in my analysis... at least the theoretics as I read them. Of course - there's NO substitution for experience and seeing what my body responds to, but I'm going to use the masteron as it's more stable and matches the half life of my other injectables...

In fact ... here's the kicker! My UGL... has my MIX!

All in ONE 50mL bottle ... each mL contains:

Test-Prop - 100mg
Tren -Ace - 70mg
Masteron-Prop - 50mg

225mg per mL

I'll be taking 1.5ml ED... which will equate to:

150mg Test
105mg Tren
75mg Masteron

**dragon69** · 10-24-2005, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Thanks guys!

Dragon! :-) The Masteron !!! That's my DHT supplement ... it's better than winny in my analysis... at least the theoretics as I read them. Of course - there's NO substitution for experience and seeing what my body responds to, but I'm going to use the masteron as it's more stable and matches the half life of my other injectables...

In fact ... here's the kicker! My UGL... has my MIX!

All in ONE 50mL bottle ... each mL contains:

Test-Prop - 100mg
Tren -Ace - 70mg
Masteron-Prop - 50mg

225mg per mL

I'll be taking 1.5ml ED... which will equate to:

150mg Test
105mg Tren
75mg Masteron

yes I know masteron is the DHT. I'm refering to experienced views from users and I don't think masteron blocks the progesterone receptor either. But I know what you mean though. I should look more into it though. I know there is no mention of progesterone blcoking with masteron.
But you also know I'm really interested in masteron too though so I think it should be in there for sure.

What do you think about using winny and mast? Any problems you see?

Like the mix you got.(can you PM me a price?)
The one I have here is;
75 prop
75 tren
75 mast

I will add more prop to the syringe so it's 150 prop.

**dragon69** · 10-24-2005, 09:18 PM

add some letro to block the progesterone receptor and it'll be all good.

**alo5603** · 10-25-2005, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

But ... It's cheap for me. So the $$ isn't the issue. And really ... it's not like your body grows ressistant to AAS... if anything ... with more muscle - you have MORE receptors... but 10 pounds is a SMALLER % change of a persons body at 250 than it is at 180... which sort of confuses people. But... all medical things I've read show INCREASED affect from INCREASED dosage. So, your anecdotal unscientific inference from your buddies means nothing - at least not compared to statistics. Anyway, all the predicates to your belief are based on flawed logic. Please, take my word for it, find other criteria for believing in something.

truman, you rely to heavily on what you read and not enough on experience. If your sayin is true, then everybody on here should just start out with over 2 grams of test a week, regardless if its there first or tenth cycle, and get huge. Is that what your tellin me? And if you were readin carefully what i said before, i never once mentioned gains are dependant on size. I wasnt referring to a diff in body weight from a 250lb person versus a 180lb, you can be over 300lbs, and if its your first cycle, you could easily just run 250-500mgs of test a week and see results. Thats the point im tryin to get across.
Yes, you are very knowledgeable, anybody can see that by your posts. But you dont realize is that knowledge is good, but personal exp is better. You cant just read for a year or so, and all of a sudden be a guru at bb. It just aint that easy bro. And you arent even that far into your cycle. Why the hell would you be rampin up the doses, and adding another compound if your already making good gains off of what you got? If your so damn smart, explain that to me, cuz i dont see your motive. Just cuz you can get it cheap.... that aint no excuse.
But hey, like i said, its your money. I dont want to get in a pissin contest with you truman, to me, its pointless. I guess i will have to watch how i try to help you, you seem to think you know everything already. So whatever...

alo

**bolin** · 10-25-2005, 12:30 AM

IMO i think that for 2nd cycle the dosages are a little high.... but hey it not just his money.... its his health.

**dragon69** · 10-25-2005, 12:45 AM

alo ........I agree with certain things here, but truman is also right with the test dosages. Check the profiles here and they will state that results of test is dose dependant.
Anabolic Review Steroid Profile: Testosterone Propionate 4th paragraph from the end
......But I do see what you're saying, a little can often be almost as good. I don't think truman is advocating high doses for everyone either though.

I think many people often butt heads with truman untill they figure him out....it happened with me. Now we exchange all the time. I think he is helpfull and has well thought out answers.
So let's all work together here. I think if we all research our own info and include links to it, it will be a much more frinedly environment.

**Xtralarg** · 10-25-2005, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by alo5603

truman, you rely to heavily on what you read and not enough on experience. If your sayin is true, then everybody on here should just start out with over 2 grams of test a week, regardless if its there first or tenth cycle, and get huge. Is that what your tellin me? And if you were readin carefully what i said before, i never once mentioned gains are dependant on size. I wasnt referring to a diff in body weight from a 250lb person versus a 180lb, you can be over 300lbs, and if its your first cycle, you could easily just run 250-500mgs of test a week and see results. Thats the point im tryin to get across.
Yes, you are very knowledgeable, anybody can see that by your posts. But you dont realize is that knowledge is good, but personal exp is better. You cant just read for a year or so, and all of a sudden be a guru at bb. It just aint that easy bro. And you arent even that far into your cycle. Why the hell would you be rampin up the doses, and adding another compound if your already making good gains off of what you got? If your so damn smart, explain that to me, cuz i dont see your motive. Just cuz you can get it cheap.... that aint no excuse.
But hey, like i said, its your money. I dont want to get in a pissin contest with you truman, to me, its pointless. I guess i will have to watch how i try to help you, you seem to think you know everything already. So whatever...

alo

DITTO!

**dragon69** · 10-25-2005, 01:09 AM

so forget the winstrol truman and use letro then to combat progesterone.
All looks good to me.

If you ever want to lower it slightly it should be pretty darn good at this dosage too.

125 prop
75 tren
75 mast

**Two4the$$** · 10-25-2005, 02:27 AM

Yeah... I might - but actually - and this is crazy ... but my tren induced ensomnia WENT AWAY when I upped the dose! My friends hunger is SUPPRESSED on tren at 40mg ED, and increased when doing 75mg ed... go figure.

Dragon, you understand me well now days... thanks for assistance.

GUYS! I'm not trying to tell you what to do. If you want to offer your opinion, do so with support for it. I've graduated from accepting the opinions of people who site some friend who's huge as the validation of it. It's just not valuable information.

Experience is EVERYTHING. But I will start seeking my PERSONAL awareness of what works for me in accordance with the fundamentals illustrated by scientific principals.

I've been on Letro for 17 days... it's great ... my nipples get a smidge sensitive, I up the dose... otherwise, I keep it around .25 - .5 ... I prefer a slight indication that I have some estrogen, as I don't want to suppress the estrogen arm of the immune system.

Alo ... Please support this claim with more than conjecture!

WHY do you REQUIRE more AAS to get gains later on? What is the purpose for the SLOW ramp up? If you have MEDICAL fundamentals you are illustrating ... explain them. If it's just for the sake of gradually pressing the dosages ... to test your reaction to sides... I now know the answer to that - and I've skipped 5 years of discovery.

Lets get something clear here;

IF you ran 100mg of Test per week... for 30 weeks ... your gains may be QUITE similar (and thats hypothetical) to 10 weeks at 300mg per week. BUT, my opinion... is that technically ... the sides are WORSE from the 30 week cycle ... because you are suppressed LONGER... but there aren't OTHER sides that are worse. So, if you take 4 cycles to accomplish what you can accomplish in 2, because you ran lower doses, you shut your HTPA down longer... and didn't avoid any sides (potentially) by doing so.

Your turn bubba... explain your motives. I know mine.

**C_Bino** · 10-25-2005, 03:59 AM

Well man the cycle looks cool to me. I dont think there is a need for the BS and people arguing. It is your cycle and like most people said its a good one. I also personally think that the doses are a little high, because now down the road you will need even more and more and more. But if money isnt an issue like you said then well that doesnt really matter. Good luck to you on the cycle and watch out for the Tren sides man. Let us know how it goes.

-Bino

**Two4the$$** · 10-25-2005, 05:03 AM

Thanks Bino...

I think people look at this as though it's like coke... and you're chasing a "high" ...

Truth be told... if I don't have sides during PCT - and if my blood checks out fine... I'm a LUCKY ass mofo - cause this was MELLOW in terms of sides... and the capacity to make gains from it.

The point is... figure out what works for your body... what drugs, what combination, what doses... and stick to it. There's an optimal point - you can take your time finding it - or you can try to accelerate that process. Personally - I thought the point of AAS IS to accelerate that process.

**Smak** · 10-25-2005, 08:32 AM

Yes, Truman is a smart guy and knows alot pertaining to AAS, but I don't think he needs 1 gram of test either yet, being his second cycle. 150mg ed of prop is going to be brutal for ever how long you run it. Hopefully your UGL prop wasn't as painful as mine. I shot 75mg ed, but I think 700mg a week would be sufficient for a second cycle. Everything else looks good in the cycle. Good luck.

**dragon69** · 10-25-2005, 09:48 AM

in regards to test doses I think some are forgetting something here. We all are going to have different natural test amounts in our bodies and those who run very high already will of course respond mainly to a higher exogenous dosage.

For instance, on my cutting cycle I'm doing now (which is also my first btw), 75mg prop ed wasn't nearly enough for me to even feel positive, let alone the other things. Seeing as I am huge already and through natural training it also has been speculated by many around me that maybe I have unusually high test naturally. (there are many females that have wondered the same thing )

I upped it to 100 which I saw a difference with and now 130. I upped it to 130 since the tren I felt was suppressing me and I needed more test. Worked very well. I think I will run it ALSO at 150 for my next one.
So you see, it can be very dependant on individual biochemistry.

Smak that avtar is nice, do you know the name of the model by any chance.

**alo5603** · 10-25-2005, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Yeah... I might - but actually - and this is crazy ... but my tren induced ensomnia WENT AWAY when I upped the dose! My friends hunger is SUPPRESSED on tren at 40mg ED, and increased when doing 75mg ed... go figure.

Dragon, you understand me well now days... thanks for assistance.

GUYS! I'm not trying to tell you what to do. If you want to offer your opinion, do so with support for it. I've graduated from accepting the opinions of people who site some friend who's huge as the validation of it. It's just not valuable information.

Experience is EVERYTHING. But I will start seeking my PERSONAL awareness of what works for me in accordance with the fundamentals illustrated by scientific principals.

I've been on Letro for 17 days... it's great ... my nipples get a smidge sensitive, I up the dose... otherwise, I keep it around .25 - .5 ... I prefer a slight indication that I have some estrogen, as I don't want to suppress the estrogen arm of the immune system.

Alo ... Please support this claim with more than conjecture!

WHY do you REQUIRE more AAS to get gains later on? What is the purpose for the SLOW ramp up? If you have MEDICAL fundamentals you are illustrating ... explain them. If it's just for the sake of gradually pressing the dosages ... to test your reaction to sides... I now know the answer to that - and I've skipped 5 years of discovery.

Lets get something clear here;

IF you ran 100mg of Test per week... for 30 weeks ... your gains may be QUITE similar (and thats hypothetical) to 10 weeks at 300mg per week. BUT, my opinion... is that technically ... the sides are WORSE from the 30 week cycle ... because you are suppressed LONGER... but there aren't OTHER sides that are worse. So, if you take 4 cycles to accomplish what you can accomplish in 2, because you ran lower doses, you shut your HTPA down longer... and didn't avoid any sides (potentially) by doing so.

Your turn bubba... explain your motives. I know mine.

truman, you dont listen do you. First of all, my friends was just to point out that i have personal experience, that YOU lack. Im not tryin to use that as an excuse, but ive done more than 2 cycles, therefore that at least gives me some wisdom right? I never said anythin about a slow ramp up. I am an avid dose ramper my self. I always use either dbol or drol at the beginning of my cycle. So dont know where ya got that from. And as for low dose, again, i never said anythin about 100mgs of test for 30 weeks. If you are just speakin hypothetical, then you totally dont see where im comin from. Yes, test itself is dose dependant, but to a certain degree. If you take, and this is hypothetically speaking, 1-2 grams of test a week, and you havent been in the game for awhile, your body, and i repeat, your body isnt going to utilize all of that shit. If it did, then like i said, everybody, should just do a couple of grams of test a week, f*ck all the bullshit. People that do that kind of dose, have been cycleing for some time, and they NEED the higher dose to get the same gains they use to get at a lower dose, its just common sense.
Seems to me, what your sayin is if you ramp up the dose, then you could easily catch up to some guys who have been doin it for years, if that were true, then we would have a bunch of ronnie or jays on here. As for how long, you run, thats totally up to you. That i agree, is dependant on the person, only you can make that decision.
Alls im sayin, you could make the same gains at 100mgs of prop ED, versus your 150mgs ED, and you addin the EQ is just overkill. But what do i know right?.... im just some dumb meathead tryin to pick a fight right?
Your turn BUBBA....

alo

**alo5603** · 10-25-2005, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by dragon69

in regards to test doses I think some are forgetting something here. We all are going to have different natural test amounts in our bodies and those who run very high already will of course respond mainly to a higher exogenous dosage.

For instance, on my cutting cycle I'm doing now (which is also my first btw), 75mg prop ed wasn't nearly enough for me to even feel positive, let alone the other things. Seeing as I am huge already and through natural training it also has been speculated by many around me that maybe I have unusually high test naturally. (there are many females that have wondered the same thing )

I upped it to 100 which I saw a difference with and now 130. I upped it to 130 since the tren I felt was suppressing me and I needed more test. Worked very well. I think I will run it ALSO at 150 for my next one.
So you see, it can be very dependant on individual biochemistry.

Smak that avtar is nice, do you know the name of the model by any chance.

i see what your sayin, and i do agree, for you, you needed the extra because you werent makin it at your current dose. Truman, on the other hand, is makin great gains of what hes got and hes already rampin doses and wantin to add another compound. Why, i do not know.

alo

**ranran** · 10-25-2005, 10:54 AM

Truman-- All I can add to that is..........I'm jealous! Looks like a great cycle to me, I am running something similar to that in Feb.....oh, how I wish it were Febuary!

Ran

**Two4the$$** · 10-25-2005, 01:35 PM

Fortunately - I have UGL gear that isn't too painful. At least - the oil isn't... there's a minimum amount of pain you have to contend with for the prop ester... as it crystalizes in the muscle or something... but a low BA content, and a cutter... keeps if from being horrid.

**Two4the$$** · 10-25-2005, 01:44 PM

Alo, you're just dumb, and you could be a meathead... but really ... you just are FILLED with flawed logic. Which would be fine, if you were AWARE of it ... and asked questions, instead of acting knowledgeable.

**Xtralarg** · 10-25-2005, 01:46 PM

Truman is that you on ur avatar?

**alo5603** · 10-25-2005, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Alo, you're just dumb, and you could be a meathead... but really ... you just are FILLED with flawed logic. Which would be fine, if you were AWARE of it ... and asked questions, instead of acting knowledgeable.

lol, okay truman, you win, were obviously arent going to get anywhere here. You have your opinion and i have mine, both of us are stubborn. But again, i was just tryin to help but now you have resulted in name calling which just goes to show your childish antics. Like i said, i guess im gonna have to watch my advice to you in the future, cuz you know SO much and wont listen. Makes me wonder why you bother making a thread, if you are going to bash anybody that just happens to disagree with some approaches of yours. Seems pointless to me.

alo

**Two4the$$** · 10-25-2005, 03:49 PM

Alo's a good guy... I'm glad we worked out our differences via IM...

**jnx3k** · 10-25-2005, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Thanks Bino...

I think people look at this as though it's like coke... and you're chasing a "high" ...

Truth be told... if I don't have sides during PCT - and if my blood checks out fine... I'm a LUCKY ass mofo - cause this was MELLOW in terms of sides... and the capacity to make gains from it.

The point is... figure out what works for your body... what drugs, what combination, what doses... and stick to it. There's an optimal point - you can take your time finding it - or you can try to accelerate that process. Personally - I thought the point of AAS IS to accelerate that process.

mmmm. coke. mmmm. JK. I think its a good cycle, one that id like to do in the future. Gotta love the blends that some of those UGL put out. Thats a nice one. PM me with price too if you can. As far as it being a high dose, it may be. But its your body, only you can really determine that. If those doses will help you reach your goals based on your research, go for it. You'll never know until you try. Good luck, and great job thus far.

**alo5603** · 10-25-2005, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Alo's a good guy... I'm glad we worked out our differences via IM...

yep, we worked it out, and saw eye to eye, truman is cool, no problems here.

alo

**needbigguns** · 12-20-2005, 10:52 AM

Dont mean to duplicate a post but no one seams to want to answer me...Heres my proposed cycle its pritty similar to the once in question

Dbol @ 50mg ED week 1-2

Anadrol @ 100mg ED week 2-4

Winny @ 50mg ED week 4-6 - Mainly to FURTHER reduce SHBG - Yes it will be harsh on liver but its only 6 weeks of Orals i will run milk thistle...

Tren A @ 75mg ED Week 2-5

Prop @ 100mg ED 1-6 Weeks

Mastron @ 100mg ED 1-6 Weeks

HCG 1500iu's/Week