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  1. #1
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    DNP - Need help finding a study... (Female Reproductive affects)

    OKay, I have heard that women should NOT use this because it may damage their eggs.

    Is this just a thought? Or does anyone here know of a study regarding this.

    I have searched Pubmed/Medline, Google, and read the Profile on it here.

    Yes, I have seen other people post threads or contribute to threads stating this potential problem for women, however, I haven't seen a thread with supportive information.

    If ANYONE has ANY bookmarked access to a worthwhile thread on this drug as it relates to the female reproductive system, please please please, post it here. It'd be usefull to the community, and my friends.

    Regards.

  2. #2
    alo5603's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    OKay, I have heard that women should NOT use this because it may damage their eggs.

    Is this just a thought? Or does anyone here know of a study regarding this.

    I have searched Pubmed/Medline, Google, and read the Profile on it here.

    Yes, I have seen other people post threads or contribute to threads stating this potential problem for women, however, I haven't seen a thread with supportive information.

    If ANYONE has ANY bookmarked access to a worthwhile thread on this drug as it relates to the female reproductive system, please please please, post it here. It'd be usefull to the community, and my friends.

    Regards.
    i have too heard the rumor, but am unsuccessful in finding it like you. I do however, have seen studies regarding cataracts forming in women's eyes. You probably have that of course, its not that hard to find, but i will help search with ya, and see if i can uncover some of this reproductive info too.

    alo

  3. #3
    Darkness's Avatar
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    From what I read here on the forum (posted by a lady) it does kill eggs! So if the female wants to have kids still its best for her to wait. Same with male, it kills your boyz and makes you cum yellow, but men produce semen everday women are born with a certain number of eggs and thats it.
    Alo you're in the medical field, you can easily explain this better.

  4. #4
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Yeah, I've read the same thing more than once... but I'm trying to find out how we "know" this.

    Bump for facts....

  5. #5
    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    i'm curious as to why a mitochondrial uncoupler like dnp would affect a sex cell differently than a somatic cell. same cell structures AFAIK. and if there is something specific to sex cells, shouldn't DNP affect sperm cells also?

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    alo5603's Avatar
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    hmmm....
    Last edited by alo5603; 10-29-2005 at 12:44 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #7
    alo5603's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver_48
    i'm curious as to why a mitochondrial uncoupler like dnp would affect a sex cell differently than a somatic cell. same cell structures AFAIK. and if there is something specific to sex cells, shouldn't DNP affect sperm cells also?
    it does effect sperm, but like darkness said, a male produces sperm until he is basically dead. So it will only effect sperm while your doin it, when you come off, your body will eventually excrete the infected sperm, and you will be good after. And you wont have to worry about getting your wife sick or hurting her during intercourse (although not sure if you would want to while on it, sweatin all over her), just pregnancy is very slim at that time. Women on the other hand, do not produce an infinite number of eggs, so if DNP was to damage them, or even the ovaries themselves, the effects could mean possible female infertility, and quite possible to be permanent. I will have to dig into this some more, this is most interesting.

    alo

  8. #8
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Alo! Well worded. Lets find a study.

    I guess just as important as potentially killing some eggs ... is anything that may produce a higher risk of birth defect. Lets dig... this subject needs an answer...

  9. #9
    alo5603's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Alo! Well worded. Lets find a study.

    I guess just as important as potentially killing some eggs ... is anything that may produce a higher risk of birth defect. Lets dig... this subject needs an answer...
    im with ya bro.

    alo

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    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    so DNP works by allowing H+ to flow through the cell membrane, bypassing ATP synthase protein, and therefore preventing ATP from being generated by the cell.

    working on the assumption that DNP is processed out of the body, and doesn't permanently alter the cell membrane, where is the effect on the sex cells coming from?

    and if it does permanently alter the cell membrane of the female's sex cells, what is different about the body cells that they aren't permanently altered?

  11. #11
    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    sorry should've clarified i was talking about mitochondrial cell

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver_48
    so DNP works by allowing H+ to flow through the cell membrane, bypassing ATP synthase protein, and therefore preventing ATP from being generated by the cell.

    working on the assumption that DNP is processed out of the body, and doesn't permanently alter the cell membrane, where is the effect on the sex cells coming from?

    and if it does permanently alter the cell membrane of the female's sex cells, what is different about the body cells that they aren't permanently altered?
    well looking at permanent damage, most likely it would have to be heat related. It does work its way thru reproductive cells, regardless of gender however. The most common sign of it happening is staining of ALL body fluids and i do mean all, semen, urine, even signs in tears have been seen, quite possibly could be found in blood too, but that would be harder to see due to the fact of the color of blood. And what you stated above is very much true, but that is based off of cell membranes in muscle tissue. It is still not completely clear how it can effect other tissues within the body.

    alo

  13. #13
    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    i was under the impression that DNP affected ALL mitochondria in the body in the same fashion

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver_48
    i was under the impression that DNP affected ALL mitochondria in the body in the same fashion
    not enough study to back that claim up, and mitochondria doesnt work exactly the same in all cells of the body.

    alo

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    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    interesting... could you briefly describe where differences occur in mitochondria (i.e. location and function)

  16. #16
    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    found this on wikipedia:

    mtDNA is typically passed on only from the mother during sexual reproduction (mitochondrial genetics), meaning that the mitochondria are clones. This means that there is little change in the mtDNA from generation to generation, unlike nuclear DNA which changes by 50% each generation. Since the mutation rate is easily measured, mtDNA is a powerful tool for tracking matrilineage, and has been used in this role for tracking many species back thousands of generations.

  17. #17
    alo5603's Avatar
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    thats a good read, but think about this, mitochondria found in muscle tissue is part of that particular cell, and muscle itself is a regenerating tissue, therefore it is meant to take stress, regardless if its drugs or bb, etc. Reproductive tissue, and its mitochondria are a diff type. Reproductive cells are not meant to regenerate under that particular stress, yes it does have regenerative properties, like all tissue in the body, but not under that particular stress. Therefore, its obvious you couldnt compare the two types of tissue when administering an agent like DNP . Im starting to wonder if there exists a study on this, it would be extremely dangerous to do, if it was done, it would probably have to have been done years back before we had all the inhumane laws we have now.

    alo

  18. #18
    alo5603's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver_48
    found this on wikipedia:

    mtDNA is typically passed on only from the mother during sexual reproduction (mitochondrial genetics), meaning that the mitochondria are clones. This means that there is little change in the mtDNA from generation to generation, unlike nuclear DNA which changes by 50% each generation. Since the mutation rate is easily measured, mtDNA is a powerful tool for tracking matrilineage, and has been used in this role for tracking many species back thousands of generations.
    judging by what you just put, if there is a permanent damage as a result of DNP , it could possibly pass over to the unborn child when and if pregnancy occurs. That could be bad.

    alo

  19. #19
    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    yah, i was hoping to find something from the 40's regarding birth defects, but apparently there was no internet back then, lol. there was a doctor that prescribed it for weight loss in the 80's tho, i wonder if anybody bothered to do follow-ups on his patients.

    do you recall whether mitochondrial replicate themselves or if they are created piece by piece by the nucleus and golgi apparatus? i want to say they are self replicating since they have their own DNA.

    if this is the case, i wonder if the primary oocytes experience mitochondrial regeneration while they just sit around and wait to get knocked up.

  20. #20
    alo5603's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver_48
    yah, i was hoping to find something from the 40's regarding birth defects, but apparently there was no internet back then, lol. there was a doctor that prescribed it for weight loss in the 80's tho, i wonder if anybody bothered to do follow-ups on his patients.

    do you recall whether mitochondrial replicate themselves or if they are created piece by piece by the nucleus and golgi apparatus? i want to say they are self replicating since they have their own DNA.

    if this is the case, i wonder if the primary oocytes experience mitochondrial regeneration while they just sit around and wait to get knocked up.
    oh i should have worded my other post diff, i meant that the two mitochondria are effected different under stimulation, not it itself. Sorry got a little ahead of myself there. I know DNP was widely used back in the 30's and early 40's too if i remember correctly, but like you said, that was before internet, so if there is concrete written proof of the studies done on it, it would have to have been reproduced onto the net.
    They do in fact replicate, had to dig up some of my old hw lol, and the cells in muscular tissue due at a much faster pace i might add. That would explain the regenerative process, maybe they dont build itself back up at all, they just replicate themselves. But then again, if it is replicating, wouldnt it replicate the damage DNP could do to it? I wonder.....

    alo

  21. #21
    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    my understanding is that damage to the DNA would produce lasting mutations or defects, and that damage to surrounding organelles and structures, while passed on through cellular division, would eventually be "worked out" over time.

  22. #22
    alo5603's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver_48
    my understanding is that damage to the DNA would produce lasting mutations or defects, and that damage to surrounding organelles and structures, while passed on through cellular division, would eventually be "worked out" over time.
    same here, but worked out over time could mean a few generations, so if there was a defect, a women could effect a few generations after her thru childbirth and so on (man what a bi*ch lol).

    alo

  23. #23
    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    looks like its time to go to a third world country for some secret research...

  24. #24
    alo5603's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver_48
    looks like its time to go to a third world country for some secret research...
    your tellin me lol, they'll do anythin for a promise of a better life (no pun intended on any members on here from 3rd world countries).

    alo

  25. #25
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Well this was some good pontificating - but ... just because have good answers doesn't mean we can assume the likely outcome. We simple need to find a study ... need to.

  26. #26
    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    here's some practical application for DNP . almost nobody needs to use it. especially not your average woman looking to "drop a few pounds." so in the real world, all of this is moot, she just needs to put down the ho-ho's and exercise.

    prolactin would supposedly release that stubborn female pattern fat on the hips and thighs, but then you run into other problems (unless you don't mind a little extra cream in your coffee)

  27. #27
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?
    Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4
    ,673,691.WKU.&OS=PN/4,673,691&RS=PN/4,673,691

    And here's the toxocology report on it, saying nothing about reproductive
    effects:

    DINITROPHENOL
    CASRN: 25550-58-7
    For other data, click on the Table of Contents


    Human Health Effects:



    Human Toxicity Excerpts:

    Signs and symptoms of acute poisoning in human beings include nausea,
    restlessness, flushed skin, sweating, rapid respiration, tachycardia,
    fever, cyanosis, and finally, collapse and coma. The illness runs a rapid
    course; death or recovery occurs within 24 to 48 hours. If production of
    heat exceeds the capacity for its dissipation, fatal hyperthermia may
    result.
    [Hardman, J.G., L.E. Limbird, P.B. Molinoff, R.W. Ruddon, A.G. Goodman
    (eds.). Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. 9th
    ed. New York, NY: McGraw-Hill, 1996., p. 1691]**PEER REVIEWED**


    Poisoning results first in ... a feeling of warmth with weakness and
    fatigue. ... Death, if it occurs, is sudden and rigor mortis ensues almost
    immediately.
    [International Labour Office. Encyclopedia of Occupational Health and
    Safety. Vols. I&II. Geneva, Switzerland: International Labour Office,
    1983., p. 636]**PEER REVIEWED**


    In a poisoned person, the result is an almost immediate incr in oxygen
    consumption, body temp, breathing rate, and heart rate. Because circulation
    and resp do not accelerate in proportion to the metabolic demand, anoxia
    and acidosis develop. ... It is a milder corrosive to skin and mucous
    membranes than phenol, but concentrated soln have produced corrosion of the
    oropharyngeal, esophageal, and gastric mucous membranes. It exerts direct
    actions on the cerebrum and lower brain centers consisting of stimulation
    followed by depression. It may produce a necrotizing tubular injury of the
    kidneys. If the acute phase of poisoning is survived, the patient usually
    tolerates successfully the later complications, which may include renal
    insufficiency and a toxic hepatitis. The fulminating type of poisoning is
    characterized by sudden onset, severe symptoms, and prompt death (within 24
    hours). Death is due to resp or circulatory collapse, especially the
    former. Many factors undoubtedly contribute to this collapse, notably
    hyperpyrexia ... dehydration, muscle rigor (due to heat and/or lactic
    acid), and occasionally pulmonary edema. ... In subacute poisoning due to
    repeated daily exposures, some individuals complain of lassitude, headache,
    and malaise, while others experience a disarming sense of well being,
    energy and drive.
    [Gosselin, R.E., R.P. Smith, H.C. Hodge. Clinical Toxicology of Commercial
    Products. 5th ed. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1984., p. III-157]**PEER
    REVIEWED**


    Miscellaneous hazards in the use of dinitrophenol include neutropenia,
    agranulocytosis, and cataract formation.
    [Gosselin, R.E., R.P. Smith, H.C. Hodge. Clinical Toxicology of Commercial
    Products. 5th ed. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1984., p. III-157]**PEER
    REVIEWED**


    The hose on a weed sprayer ruptured, spraying dinitrophenol into the eye of
    a worker. Chemical conjunctivitis developed and it was treated with Blinex,
    Neosporin opthalmic ointment, and an eye patch. His vision was impaired for
    one month.
    [Peoples SA et al; Occupational Health Problems Resulting from Exposure to
    Dinitrophenol and its Substituted Formulas in California in 1975 and 1976,
    ACF 59-433 p.4 (1977)]**PEER REVIEWED**


    A tractor driver was opening a can of dinitrophenol when it sprayed into
    his face and eyes. ... /The patient's/ face peeled from contact
    with /dinitrophenol/.
    [Peoples SA et al; Occupational Health Problems Resulting from Exposure to
    Dinitrophenol and its Substituted Formulas in California in 1975 and 1976.
    ACF 59-433 p.6 (1977)]**PEER REVIEWED**


    Highly toxic. Dust inhalation may be fatal.
    [Sax, N.I. and R.J. Lewis, Sr. (eds.). Hawley's Condensed Chemical
    Dictionary. 11th ed. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Co., 1987., p. 421]
    **PEER REVIEWED**


    Allergic reactions to explosives and war gases were reviewed with regard to
    identification of the primary allergens and the clinical monitoring of
    affected subjects. Sensitization was reported for powders, explosives,
    fuses and war gases. ...
    [Foussereau J et al; Occupational Contact Dermatitis, Clinical and Chemical
    Aspects 171-6 (1982)]**PEER REVIEWED**



    Human Toxicity Values:

    The fatal dose in adults is about 1 to 3 g by mouth, and 3 g has proved
    fatal even in divided doses over a period of 5 days.
    [Gosselin, R.E., R.P. Smith, H.C. Hodge. Clinical Toxicology of Commercial
    Products. 5th ed. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1984., p. III-157]**PEER
    REVIEWED**

    *****Truman-Note the typically reccomended does of up to 600mgs/day ******
    ******************is apparently 60% of the fatal dose?**********************

    The acute fatal dose of dinitrophenol /SRP: Unspecified mixture of isomers/
    is approximately 1 g.
    [Dreisbach, R.H. Handbook of Poisoning. 11th ed. Los Altos, CA: Lange
    Medical Publications. 1983., p. 127]**PEER REVIEWED**



    Skin, Eye and Respiratory Irritations:

    Dust and vapor of dinitrophenol have been reported to be irritating to
    mucous membrane in industrial exposure ... .
    [Grant, W.M. Toxicology of the Eye. 3rd ed. Springfield, IL: Charles C.
    Thomas Publisher, 1986., p. 359]**PEER REVIEWED**



    Drug Warnings:

    Salicylates, which contain a phenolic group, must be avoided during
    treatment for exposure to dinitrophenols.
    [Hardman, J.G., L.E. Limbird, P.B. Molinoff, R.W. Ruddon, A.G. Goodman
    (eds.). Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. 9th
    ed. New York, NY: McGraw-Hill, 1996., p. 1691]**PEER REVIEWED**



    Medical Surveillance:

    Men regularly exposed to dinitrophenol should have their urine regularly
    tested for dinitrophenol or aminonitrophenol ... .
    [International Labour Office. Encyclopedia of Occupational Health and
    Safety. Vols. I&II. Geneva, Switzerland: International Labour Office,
    1983., p. 637]**PEER REVIEWED**


    In exposed workers, blood concentration of /dinitro-derivatives/ should not
    exceed 10 ug/g. A white cell count should be performed if the exposed
    person has an unexplained persistent fever. Individuals who have a fall in
    white blood cell counts should avoid further exposure. /Dinitro-
    derivatives/
    [Dreisbach, R.H. Handbook of Poisoning. 11th ed. Los Altos, CA: Lange
    Medical Publications. 1983., p. 127]**PEER REVIEWED**



    Probable Routes of Human Exposure:

    Exposure may occur by the inhalation of the vapor, dusts, or sprays of soln
    of dinitrophenol. It penetrates the intact skin but, as it is a brilliant
    yellow dye, skin contamination is readily recognized. Systemic poisoning
    has occurred during both production and use. If exposure to dinitrophenol
    is suspected by the nature of the occupation and by staining of the skin,
    particularly of the hands and around the mouth and nose, individuals should
    immediately be removed from futher expsoure, made to lie down, and the
    course of poisoning carefully watched
    [International Labour Office. Encyclopedia of Occupational Health and
    Safety. Vols. I&II. Geneva, Switzerland: International Labour Office,
    1983., p. 636-7]**PEER REVIEWED**


    Those involved in dye manufacture, picric acid manufacture, photographic
    chemicals.
    [Sittig, M. Handbook of Toxic and Hazardous Chemicals and Carcinogens,
    1985. 2nd ed. Park Ridge, NJ: Noyes Data Corporation, 1985., p. 379]**PEER
    REVIEWED**


    Occupational exposure to dinitrophenols may occur through inhalation and
    dermal contact with this compound at workplaces where dinitrophenols are
    produced or used. (SRC)
    **PEER REVIEWED**

  28. #28
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    bump ... by the way, that is originally researched by Hooker...

  29. #29
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    hey alo

  30. #30
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    I will look around, but I doubt I can find any studies. DNP is not a hormone nor is it even intended for human use so I dont think I can find anything other than anecdotal info.

  31. #31
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    Needless to say women that are pregnant or may become pregnant should not be even thinking about DNP .

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    hey alo
    nothin worth postin yet truman, just a bunch of studies on its effects on producing cataracts in females eyes, but i havent stopped. Keep you updated.

    alo

  33. #33
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Alo - cataracs is dose dependant likelihood? Or is it at any dose?

    Did you guys read the above study?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by alo5603
    it does effect sperm, but like darkness said, a male produces sperm until he is basically dead. So it will only effect sperm while your doin it, when you come off, your body will eventually excrete the infected sperm, and you will be good after. And you wont have to worry about getting your wife sick or hurting her during intercourse (although not sure if you would want to while on it, sweatin all over her), just pregnancy is very slim at that time. Women on the other hand, do not produce an infinite number of eggs, so if DNP was to damage them, or even the ovaries themselves, the effects could mean possible female infertility, and quite possible to be permanent. I will have to dig into this some more, this is most interesting.

    alo
    I have done some research on this but don't have the stuff bookmarked. I too understand that it could kill the reproductive possibilities of a female permanently. I am curious as to the long term reproductive effects on males who use gear. To put it bluntly....If a guys nuts are basically non existant and have been that way for a long time, is there any chance they won't come back and produce sperm?

  35. #35
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Texas-Girl... I haven't heard of someone NOT coming back on line ... but I have heard of long delays, and low testosterone levels . Anyway, the nuts are an organ, they atrophy, they hypertrophy ... if they're of size to handle the workload - they produce according to the HTPA stimulation to do so. Think about it - the whole NFL's been on this for 20+ years, conservatively - we'd know more about that issue by now... if it was a legitimate concern.

    As far as the reports I posted above, they were from hooker. Check out this BRILLIAN process he used in finding the results!

    I've been looking in medline all day for that information.

    I happen to know that DNP was discovered as a weight loss agent when factory workers who were working where DNP was used to create certain shades of yellow began losing weight. Were they sterile? I'm looking into class action law suites for sterility filed at that time against paint companies by their workers, and there aren't any that I see.

    We're lucky to have had Anthony's active contributions while we did... Above, are the REAL issues with DNP - not those people SPECULATE to have been likely, or could be, or heard of, or were afraid of, but the REAL side affects.

  36. #36
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    well texas, truman summed it up nice for me so there ya go lol.
    Truman, the doses were not dose dependant, they ranged from 50mgs a day up to 600mgs (crazy women lol), so it seems to be more of a random thing, depending i would imagine on how sensitive their eyes were. As for males, it was extremely rare for them to develop cataracts, why i do not know, im lookin in to it now.

    alo

  37. #37
    TexasFitnessGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Texas-Girl... I haven't heard of someone NOT coming back on line ... but I have heard of long delays, and low testosterone levels . Anyway, the nuts are an organ, they atrophy, they hypertrophy ... if they're of size to handle the workload - they produce according to the HTPA stimulation to do so. Think about it - the whole NFL's been on this for 20+ years, conservatively - we'd know more about that issue by now... if it was a legitimate concern.

    As far as the reports I posted above, they were from hooker. Check out this BRILLIAN process he used in finding the results!

    I've been looking in medline all day for that information.

    I happen to know that DNP was discovered as a weight loss agent when factory workers who were working where DNP was used to create certain shades of yellow began losing weight. Were they sterile? I'm looking into class action law suites for sterility filed at that time against paint companies by their workers, and there aren't any that I see.

    We're lucky to have had Anthony's active contributions while we did... Above, are the REAL issues with DNP - not those people SPECULATE to have been likely, or could be, or heard of, or were afraid of, but the REAL side affects.
    You do mention use in the NFL as being conservative. I don't know many competitive pro bodybuilders using conservatively, I just wonder how extensive the research is? I think I read that Dorian Yates confessed to using gear everyday for I think 20+ Years and he has children.

    BTW If I need to know something I'll just ask you to do the research for me. You get some good info

  38. #38
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    No - not that NFL AAS usage is conservative ... but that conservatively speaking ... if there was a problem with restoring testical volume and capacity to perform, there'd be more literature about it. Those monsters have been on HIGH doses of stupid stacks since high school no doubt, and didn't have access to good stack suggestions until they reached pro status, or had money, or the last 3 years of the internet. That's just the way it's been ... and in spite that, there's STILL limited number of long term problems from it.

    :-)

  39. #39
    TexasFitnessGirl's Avatar
    TexasFitnessGirl is offline Female Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    No - not that NFL AAS usage is conservative ... but that conservatively speaking ... if there was a problem with restoring testical volume and capacity to perform, there'd be more literature about it. Those monsters have been on HIGH doses of stupid stacks since high school no doubt, and didn't have access to good stack suggestions until they reached pro status, or had money, or the last 3 years of the internet. That's just the way it's been ... and in spite that, there's STILL limited number of long term problems from it.

    :-)
    Still you say limited number of long term problems, maybe so. I am soooo sick of the short term problems, I am starting to wonder if my friend started out ****ed up, maybe Bipolar and just reached an all time high when mixed with gear in the mix.

  40. #40
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    You always have to wonder that. I mean, it will enhance an existing problem... and supposedly, over time, test users become subject to grandeur.

    Is this a guy you're dating? What examples do you have of the problems you're experiencing, whats the time line of your dating, and how do you contrast them to his off-cycle disposition?

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