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  1. #1
    8pak's Avatar
    8pak is offline Junior Member
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    Oct 2005

    Need lean-mass 1st cycle

    I'm planning my first cycle. I'm 40 y.o., ex-amateur wrestler, etc., have weight trained off and on for 25 yrs--been working seriously hard for last 3 yrs. My stats: 5'9", 160#, BF 6 %. I am a very hardgainer--totally shredded with good strength for size, but want to finally gain more size.but quality, lean mass. My bench is stuck at 250, and I'd like to break thru that strength ceiling. I'm doing protein >200mg/d, creatine, arginine, glutamine, multi.--always above 3000 cal/day (trying for 5000/d)--forcing kcal is probably my dietery weak point. My jobwork is 50-60 hrs/wk and burn ALOT of cals--and workout 3-4 d/wk-(yes, I'm guilty of doing cardio, too). My goals for cycle are: 1)low sides--safety first, 2)LEAN-mass --no Michelin-man, water yo-yo, 3) retain decent portion of gains. It is absolutely amazing the amount of quality knowlege one can get on this board! Like an naive idiot, I selected Deca /Primo off the AS
    Effectiveness Chart, only to realize how ludicrus a first cycle that "wood" be. . I will go with test as a base. Is this a solid 1st cycle for my goals?
    wk 1-10 test e @ 250mg/wk
    wk 1-10 EQ @ 200mg/wk
    wk 1-10 Nolva 10mg/d
    wk 10-15 Nolva 20mg/d
    wk 12-13 HCG 5000iu x 3
    wk 13-15 clomid 100->50.

    My questions are: If I could afford to bump up the dose of one AS to say 400mg, which one? (I like the appetite stimulation of EQ--so I can eat like a horse...get never mind). Should I go with just test e at 400mg/wk? Can I get away with only injecting once per week? Is twice better? Do I need to do Nolva during the whole cycle at this low dose? (Remember my receptors are newbies and I'm paranoid about sides).
    Sorry so verbose. I totally appreciate and respect the wisdom on this board!
    Thanks for all help.
    Last edited by 8pak; 10-31-2005 at 08:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Dukkit's Avatar
    Dukkit is offline Vitamin Enhanced Sociopathic Post Whore
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    Aug 2005
    first you should be on 500 mg of the test e, if you want to gain any nice lean mass. and for a newbie you will be able to handle that amount. best would be 2 shots a week. you can take the nolva the whole cycle. specially cuz of the EQ. you may want to bump up the EQ a bit to like 400 mg but im not well versed on EQ so someone else will have to help ya there. i really dont think youll need the HCG as long as you use the nolva and clomid. In manner of sides even havin the test at 500 and uppin the EQ a bit, long as you have the nolva on hand you shouldnt have any strong sides. you say that forcing your calorie intake is hard for you but once your gear kicks in it will make it a lil easier. to keep the most of your gains just make sure you work out to the level you were on cycle and keep the diet in check once you come off along with the clomid you should keep a decent amount of gains. good luck

  3. #3
    eGGz's Avatar
    eGGz is offline Anabolic Member
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    Jun 2004
    The point of no return.
    Everyone is different. Some experience appetite increase with EQ and some do not. A list of side effects that a certain steroid may cause is basically a report of side effects that a group of people have experienced. One person may have a certain side effect while another may have an entirely different side effect. They all make the list, but that does not mean you will experience all of them or any of them. Everyone is different.

    10 weeks of EQ @ 200mg EW will have little if any effect even on a 160lb person. much too short, way too low.

    A 10 week low dose cycle would probabaly not require any HCG , also never run hcg and clomid concurrently.

    If you are paranoid about side effects then you will most certainly be hypersensitive to every rise and fall of your physiology during any cycle you choose. Things that probably happen every day will become a concern simply because you have become aware of them even though they were there all along.

    First cycle:
    1-12 Test E or C @ 400-500mg EW
    1-18 A-Dex @ .25mg ED
    15-18 Nolvadex @ 20mg ED
    15-18 Clomid @ 100mg ED

  4. #4
    8pak's Avatar
    8pak is offline Junior Member
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    Oct 2005
    Thanks. I will probably go with test e only, at 500mg (250/2x per wk)., and save a stack for next cycle. Anyone else have thoughts on Nolva vs. Arimidex throughout cycle? Necessary?

  5. #5
    JohnnyB's Avatar
    JohnnyB is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    Apr 2002
    Your diet is going to be a big part of a lean mass cycle


  6. #6
    Triposinator's Avatar
    Triposinator is offline Associate Member
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    Aug 2005
    We have similar history, build and objectives.

    Eggz's recommendation is on the money I think.

    I have found A-dex to be a very nice tool against bloat. I am now in week 7 of a 12 week Test E cycle. I'm using .5mg of Adex Every Other Day. Combine this with attention to sodium intake, and you should (as I have) be very happy with the absence of sides - I have.

    Some have commented on diet. Ex-wrestlers like you could probably give us a lesson on diet Pinnacle recommmended to me that I take the calories up gradually
    say 100 cals per week. Keep a caliper handy, and tweak your intake as you go. With that much cardio already in your basic program, you can just lighten up on it to boost your muscle-growth reserves. This technique has worked great for me.

    I'd also suggest that you spend the money to get blood work during your cycle. I have. A lot of things start swinging when you use AAS.

    Finally, and Pinnacle did not tell me this I'd make sure you have 3-4 female freinds to help you with what is going to be an every day need starting around week 5 or 6

    Quote Originally Posted by 8pak
    Thanks. I will probably go with test e only, at 500mg (250/2x per wk)., and save a stack for next cycle. Anyone else have thoughts on Nolva vs. Arimidex throughout cycle? Necessary?

  7. #7
    Booz's Avatar
    Booz is online now AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Dec 2004
    E London,no SOURCES given
    agree with wat eggz has stated,200mg eq not worth a rub!should be ran at 400mg minimum for 12 weeks minimum imo.

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