first cycle

[pv66]

From all I've read on the board here it sounds like the one consensus opinion is to take test. The one thing I don't want to do is lose my hair. Will taking proscar or dutasteride along with the test stop this from happening? Will test prop eod 100mg or 150mg cause this to happend? This is my first cycle, should I add var to this or run it on its own?

[shortie]

From all I've read on the board here it sounds like the one consensus opinion is to take test. The one thing I don't want to do is lose my hair. Will taking proscar or dutasteride along with the test stop this from happening? Will test prop eod 100mg or 150mg cause this to happend? This is my first cycle, should I add var to this or run it on its own?

Test will usually only cause hair loss in men with a genetic predisposition to MPB, I have the hairline of a 20 yr old and have taken up to a gram of test a week, but have no fam history to worry about. If it is a concern for you I believe those products you named will work with test. Don't use prop for a first cycle, much too painful and unecessary number of injections IMO. Run a single ester like Test E or Cyp for 12 wk at 500 mg/wk. And IMO no need to add the var, very expensive and you will be getting excellent results from the Test-Make sure to plan a proper PCT!

[RUballs0514]

good advice shortie. do what he said

[pv66]

That's the thing, grampa on my mom's side went bald, which is I think who it most commonly is linked to genetically. Only reason I was leaning towards prop was less water retention, don't want to blow up with the e or cyp.

[RUballs0514]

take l-dex to help with bloat. nolva during cycle will help a little with bloat too. you def don't want prop for you 1st cycle.

[pv66]

Excuse my ignorance but is there another name for l-dex?

[shortie]

Arimidex , the liquid form is called l-dex or liquidex. The active compound is Anastrozole.

[Triposinator]

LiquiDex , arimedex (sp) are a few. Those are "brand names" for Anastrozole

Confusing ain't it?

AR sells the Liquidex.

Excuse my ignorance but is there another name for l-dex?

[pv66]

Whoa, a lot of sides listed in what I've read, any experiences with those?

[shortie]

Personally, never had any sides from l-dex, with the exception of one chem labs carrier that gave me mild heartburn.

[alo5603]

i dont see why he cant take prop. If he is up to ED injections, prop is by far better then e or cyp, for his goals anyway.

alo

[pv66]

So the i-dex would do a better job with the bloat than nolvadex or clomid. Wouldn't this be more of a mass builder though than a cutter?

[pv66]

Not sure about ED, could do EOD though.

[alo5603]

Not sure about ED, could do EOD though.

of course, either way, for your goals, i dont see why using prop would be a bad idea. As long as you have mentally readied your self for that many injects, you should be fine.

alo

[pv66]

I was considering winny too which would have consisted of eod injects. I am just going back and forth because I think test prop is what I am most interested in yet I have the genetic hair loss factor to think about.

[alo5603]

I was considering winny too which would have consisted of eod injects. I am just going back and forth because I think test prop is what I am most interested in yet I have the genetic hair loss factor to think about.

how long until you start your cycle. If you have some time, get some dutasteride, and run it at least 30days before your cycle, it takes at least 30days to work, and it helps alot with test baldness. Im on it now, i have the prescribed kind, and i aint commin off ever.

alo

[alo5603]

but dont run winny if your worried about hairloss, cuz most lose hair while on it, but people that are predisposed to mpb will most likely not have it come back.

alo

[shortie]

IMO, I would avoid prop for a first cycle. Many users experience some serious pain, and if you have never stuck yourself before this can make the whole experience miserable. I would ask you experienced guys out there do you remember your first inject, and would you have continued if you knew you had to do it tomorrow and it was going to hurt like hell? I just wan to see PV achieve his goals and set a realistic cycle with as limited complications as possible. And in my exp I have never had bloat with E or cyp so long as I took a lttle l-dex.

[alo5603]

IMO, I would avoid prop for a first cycle. Many users experience some serious pain, and if you have never stuck yourself before this can make the whole experience miserable. I would ask you experienced guys out there do you remember your first inject, and would you have continued if you knew you had to do it tomorrow and it was going to hurt like hell? I just wan to see PV achieve his goals and set a realistic cycle with as limited complications as possible. And in my exp I have never had bloat with E or cyp so long as I took a lttle l-dex.

i agree with you, prop can be painful depending on the brand, but you are lucky with the test e or cyp. Even on l-dex, i still bloat a little, and im a prop user for life now. And its not like if he starts prop, he has to end with prop, if it seems like he cant handle it, he can still switch the esters. His goal is to get lean mass only, he doesnt want to blow up, and for a first time user, at least for me, i did cyp and i blew up like a fricken blimp, and on only 250mgs.

alo

[pv66]

OK, makes sense, but wouldn't the e or cyp be more of a mass builder than a cutter? Good advice on the dutasteride, it's something that if it starts to go though as you said, it won't come back, no chance to experiment.

[shortie]

True, he could swap in something else, and IMO prop is a superior product, but since most of us are needlephobic I like to recommend becoming friends with the pin before setting a nightly date. And then again there is the pain, some tolerate it well, others can't workout on it, it is really up to you PV, in my experience you are going to do what you want anyhow. Good luck.

[pv66]

Is it the actual compound that makes it painful or is it the recommended ED and EOD injects?

[shortie]

OK, makes sense, but wouldn't the e or cyp be more of a mass builder than a cutter? Good advice on the dutasteride, it's something that if it starts to go though as you said, it won't come back, no chance to experiment.

E, Cyp, and Prop are all still Test with the same musle building properties. Due to the short ester nature of prop it lends itself to less water retention(bloat) than the other two. But equal doses of any of the three using good gear will yield similar muscle gains, just different levels of water.

[pv66]

Just trying to gain as much info as possible, still weighing my options. I separated my shoulder about 5 weeks ago, and just started lifting heavy again. Not completely 100% yet.

[shortie]

Is it the actual compound that makes it painful or is it the recommended ED and EOD injects?

Heard a lot about this and I don't really know yet, I was told last that it had to do with the BA:BB ratio. Injects are really only mildy irritating, but the compound in it will determine the pain level.

[alo5603]

Is it the actual compound that makes it painful or is it the recommended ED and EOD injects?

it can be both, but most of the time, its the compound. Yeah, with the dutasteride, it helps, but if your not willing to take the plunge, you will never know. Whats more important? BTW, i havent seen prop as a heavy hairloss agent, and neither has anyone i know. Your choice.

alo

[alo5603]

True, he could swap in something else, and IMO prop is a superior product, but since most of us are needlephobic I like to recommend becoming friends with the pin before setting a nightly date. And then again there is the pain, some tolerate it well, others can't workout on it, it is really up to you PV, in my experience you are going to do what you want anyhow. Good luck.

true that, i agree, and he may have to spend a little more money to find out, but hey, cycleing isnt as easy as people think.

alo

[shortie]

Cycling- eat more food than you can stand, spend hundreds of dollars on gear/ancillaries/supps, workout for hours on end, experience pain and mood swings like a biatch, all in search of a few lbs of lean muscle. And we're the "cheaters"-

[alo5603]

Cycling- eat more food than you can stand, spend hundreds of dollars on gear/ancillaries/supps, workout for hours on end, experience pain and mood swings like a biatch, all in search of a few lbs of lean muscle. And we're the "cheaters"-

lol, good stuff.

alo

[pv66]

Well, honestly it's mainly for aesthetic reasons that I'm doing this as I think most of you are as well. So is it worth getting more chiseled and losing my hair in the process? I would say no for me. In the write up about prop it says the hair loss occurs less frequently than e or cyp. It also says if there is a predipsosition and high dosages are taken, then it could happen.

[pv66]

I am right in the conclusion that var is the only compound without hair loss as a risk?

[alo5603]

I am right in the conclusion that var is the only compound without hair loss as a risk?

Guess what, var can too. Any and all AAS can speed up the balding process, just some are more likely too. Its gonna be up to you whether you want to take the plunge or not.

alo

[shortie]

I am right in the conclusion that var is the only compound without hair loss as a risk?

PV, I am no expert on the hair issue cause I never had the problem, but IMO any hormonal shift in your body gives you a chance of hairloss. If you really don't want to lose any hair whatsoever I wouldn't cycle. For me when I started, I decided I didn't care if it affected my hairline, luckily it didn't. But I knew what was most important to me was my lifting. If you decide to cycle, you may start with a low dose of test to see if you have any hairloss-either way man good luck with it.

[alo5603]

I am right in the conclusion that var is the only compound without hair loss as a risk?

but that doesnt mean you cant take steps though, precautions to help combat it. You may even find out you are lucky and wont lose a damn thing. Only one way to find out though.........

alo

[pv66]

Otherwise, androgenic -caused side effects such as acne, deep voice, clitorial hypertrophy or increased growth of body hair can occur. This is what I saw on var.

[shortie]

You don't have to worry about the "clitoral hypertrohy" do you ? J/K

[pv66]

Right there