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Cycle:
week1-10: test prop 50mg/ed
week1-11: Arimidex .25mg/eod
week1-8: Tren Acetate 75mg/ed
week1-13: Liv52 1tab/ed
pct:
week 11-13: Clomid wk11 100mg/ed wk12 60mg/ed wk13 40mg/ed
week 11-13: Nolvadex wk11 40mg/ed wk12 40mg/ed wk13 20mg/ed
MY QUESTION IS:
What can I take to fight against Trens side effects (PROGESTERONE) and what would it look like aded into my cycle? I've heard of using B-6 or bromocriptine, or even Letro............are there others? Which are the most effective?
Quote:
Originally Posted by theshiz777
the arimidex will help fight progesterone gyno.. i would also add 200mg b-6 ed
b6 is great for fighting it. however some people are just not able to control the progesterone. the fact that you are asking this makes me wonder if you are one of them. If so, you might want to use other compounds instead.
I actually just watched that movie Mtown. I love the rock, pretty funny scenes best line was "you're all fired" but it was also really cheesey....definately not as good as the Run Down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latimus
first time tren user, so im not exactly sure. I am a littlesensitive to test, so i would like to take an extra precaution or 2 with the tren also.....just in case. I have no idea yet if i am extra sensitive to progesterone, thnx for the heads up though.
first- progesterone is a ER modulator- it can actually suppress gyno- though it can be an aggravating factor
Trenbolone does not raise progesterone levels, trenbolone suppresses progesterone production
Trenbolone is a Progestin, progestins can cause gyno.
there is not much that can be done directly about progestins, dopaminergics which suppress prolactin seem to help significantly with avoiding progestin related gyno.
dostinex/cabergoline (same thing)
[QUOTE=macrophage69alpha]first- progesterone is a ER modulator- it can actually suppress gyno- though it can be an aggravating factor
QUOTE]
when you say this do you mean the progesterone can supress estrogen related gyno?
isnt progesterone the most dominant progestin, at least thats what it says in my physiology book.. ?
so if you took some oral like m1t with somthing that aromatized it could stop estrogen gyno right?
in the human body, yes (made by the human body)- not as compared to synthetic progestins (whose activity, even if agonistic, made be completely different)Quote:
Originally Posted by stupidhippo
no thats actually MORE likely to cause gynoQuote:
Originally Posted by elite2kr
It seems that I read somewhere, Letro almost completely reduces estrogen, If this is so isn't it impossible for progestins to cause gyno without the existance of estrogen?? I am not sure about this, but am interested. I am wanting to run tren and prop and wanting the best Anti E combo for my cycle.
I hear ya on that bro, lookin for the same thing my self, best anti-e and best progesterone reducer or just something to help blockthe symptomesQuote:
Originally Posted by Kdog@usi
thats exaclty what i have been trying to figure out. i want the most protection from gyno, using an anti e to fight the test and and anti e to fight the progesterone gyno from trenQuote:
Originally Posted by theshiz777
yea exactly...................cant seem to get a strait answer though...........the best i got so far is 200mg of b-6 a day, and someone has mentioned somethin about bromocriptin, but ive heard that bromo has side effects also...............if you find out somethin that hasnt been posted in this thread pm me the info bro!!!!!!!!!! good luck!
Found a good thread in the PCT section by Drummerboy:
"Progesterone Control
Lilopristone, Onapristone: These are progesterone blockers also, said to be safer and possibly more effective than RU-486 when it comes to progesterone blocking. They were developed after RU-486 in an attempt to make more effective, less harsh drugs to block progesterone.
Dostinex (Cabergoline), Bromo (Bromocriptine), B-6 : These are used for Deca/Tren gyno sides. This type of gyno is related to progesterone and its receptors. Tren/Deca may act on the progesterone receptor, as they are progestins, and may increase prolactin in the blood (causing lactating). These drugs stop production of prolactin at the pituitary gland. Controlling estrogen levels with an AI also helps here, as progestins themsleves haven't been proven to cause gyno.
RU-486 (Mifepristone - abortion pill) : This drug has the ability to block estrogen, progesterone AND cortisol. It may or may not be very well tolerated, but I would like to find out more about it, as it is used in the bodybuilding world. In PCT it is used to block cortisol and progesterone. A powerful drug that may turn out to be a good choice, but i need more evidence and feedback from experience useing RU-486. "
Drummerboy
You don't need to be concerned with progesterone, but be concerned with Prolcatin buildup. Prolactin buildup is a big concern when using Tren.
I just got through fighting a small lump caused by prolactin from Tren and I was using arimidex the entire time. You are not suppose to be able to get prolcatin when Estrogen is under control, so I guess the Arimidex was not working well enough alone.
I developed a small "bb" size lump that hurt like hell. I was very worried and read my butt off all night. What I found out was that B6 at 600mg ED (no less than this!) will work in combatting Prolactin. All of the lab reports/tests where B6 worked were done at 600mg ED!
I started Nolva (alongside the current usage of Arimidex) at 40mg ED and 600mg B6 for two weeks and lump and pain are gone. Prior to this, I was trying Nolva alone and it just wasn't getting rid of the lump caused by prolactin from Tren.
I hope this helps some Bros out somewhere....
BTW, I get Prolactin buildup with Deca as well over a long period.
Thnx Bro. You know anything about Bromocriptin?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomp
Check out this thread by Drummerboy has a very nice section about tren, prolactin, and progesterone, and remedies for this....
http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-cycle-therapy/198848-pct-cycle-recomendations-estrogen-progesterone-cortisol-control.html
Yes, but Bromo can cause nasty sides. Stick with the B6 for no sides.
Good article in link BTW;)
You can take B6 at 200mg ED to keep it under control. Just remember to use 600mg ED to combat it when it gets out of hand. I suggest 200mg ED after about week 4 on Tren. Earlier if you are more prone to it.
Dostinex (Cabergoline) is better than Bromo.
You could use this for any rats you may have in the basement:
a-dex= no it will notQuote:
Originally Posted by mtown
b-6= may be for some, not for others
I have used b-6 up to 800mg a deay and it doesnt do shit for.
I have used bromocriptine and went up to 5mg a day with no ill sides effects at all.
Cabergoline is sure bet.
Dopergin is another one if you can afford it.
nolva will help as will bromo but better is dostinex..better than bromo and less sides..now prolactin is not necessarily the culprit until you start getting gyno....primarily gyno is the question here and nolva should take care of most of it...if not..I would seek out dostinex
Cool guys. Since i cant get dostinex, im going to use 200mg og b-6 e/d and 2.5mg of Bromocriptin e/d along with a multivitamin and good nutrition.............thnx guys you have all been a big help............if you guys got anymore info for me keep it commn......thnx!
do i need to cycle off of Bromo?
I think my cycle will look something like this now.....let me know if i put the b-6 and Bromo in correctly please:
Cycle:
week1-10: test prop 50mg/ed
week1-11: Arimidex .25mg/eod
week1-8: Tren Acetate 75mg/ed
week1-9:Bromocriptine 2.5mg e/d
week1-10: B-6 200mg e/d
week1-13: Liv52 1tab/ed
pct:
week 11-13: Clomid wk11 100mg/ed wk12 60mg/ed wk13 40mg/ed
week 11-13: Nolvadex wk11 40mg/ed wk12 40mg/ed wk13 20mg/ed