Which cycle results would be less noticeable to the wife?

**mb16610** · 10-30-2005, 10:55 AM

I tried explaining the benefits of HRT to my wife with no such luck, so - I can't let her know what I'm doing. With that in mind, here's my background:

34yrs old, 6'1" 200lbs lean build, 34inch waist 17inch arms - all natural (lifting since I was 16) and I do cardio 3-4x/wk. I also had bloodwork done, everything came back normal, but total testosterone was 429ng/dl, which I was told was a little on the low end of "normal" for someone my age.

Just started my first cycle ever on 10/12/05 and decided to keep it simple and conservative:

200mg/wk test cypionate
1mg Arimidex Monday and 1mg on Thurs
Clomid for PCT

So far so good. My energy levels are through the roof although no noticeable increases in strength, yet. I seem to have a "pump" most of the time which feels great. My soreness from lifting is not even 50% of what it used to be and lasts 24hrs or so, whereas prior to this, I'd be sore for 3 days.

I've gained about 2 - 2.5lbs so far as of Friday. Had gyno as a teen, with none to speak of so far. Believe it or not, my complexion has actually improved in the past 3 weeks (go figure that one out) - unless all hell's going to break loose in the next couple of weeks, it seems like things are going good...(knock on wood).

I've been thinking on what to do in terms of my next cycle, hence the reason for this post. Keep in mind, I'm not looking to blow up overnight, and would be happy with a 10-12lb net gain over 12 weeks. I want to alleviate any joint pains on the next cycle and am looking to strenghten my ligaments and tendons. So, which cycle would be best for that **without the world (and wife) noticing anything drastic**:

200mg/wk test cypionate + 200mg/wk of deca

or

200mg/wk test cypionate + 25mg/day of anavar for the last 6 wks of cycle

Any help or comments are appreciated...thanks to all in advance.

**BooCooo** · 10-30-2005, 11:34 AM

1 mg of arimidex a day, thats alot, your not even running test that high to use 1mg, if any use .25 everyday

**Darkness** · 10-30-2005, 11:36 AM

You can go with more than 200mgs of test per week. Do 200mgs 2x per week and you'll be fine.

**Baller9** · 10-31-2005, 12:20 AM

Purely for joint help I would do the deca cycle that you proposed. The var would help too and if you go that route you should up it to 40mg/ED it's mild, reasonably safe, doesn't aromatize and won't put on too much mass so that your wife will notice, but you might be dissapointed if you think it will make your joints feel as good as Deca might.

Also, if you are looking for joint relief you should consider lowering the AI since that is preventing the 'good' parts of estrogen from helping out...hooker has a great piece on progesterone if you can find it. I would do that until you started to have any gyno symptoms if I were you i.e., tingly nips.

**wolfyEVH** · 10-31-2005, 12:28 AM

act like you never want to have sex. then tell her its because of your declined test levels.

**testosterona** · 10-31-2005, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by wolfyEVH

act like you never want to have sex. then tell her its because of your declined test levels.

ha, nice! good advice wolf

**testosterona** · 10-31-2005, 12:37 AM

id go with 200mgs of deca strickly for your joints. then add 300mgs of test and 40mgs of var setup like this:
wk 1-11 deca
wk 1-12 test
wk 9-14 anavar
wk 15start pct.

this may seem like alot of compounds. however, the doses are very low. 10lbs of lean muscle will be reality only if you keep a clean diet. you will have to work for this one!

**Needle_Newb** · 10-31-2005, 11:18 AM

She's gonna find out sooner or later. Don't hide stuff from your wife, if she finds out, you'll be in worse trouble than had you told her in the first place. Trust me.

**dragon69** · 10-31-2005, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by wolfyEVH

act like you never want to have sex. then tell her its because of your declined test levels.

Makes sense to us men, but this is women we're talking about.
They don't often think like 'oh, well how can we change your low test?'

Next thing you know she's cheating with the neighbour.

**Triposinator** · 10-31-2005, 11:22 AM

Bad advice, IMO, based upon a faulty premise that she will find out sometime anyway. Using the same logic, we would all tell a whole bunch of people we are on gear.

Stick with your plan dude.

Originally Posted by Needle_Newb

She's gonna find out sooner or later. Don't hide stuff from your wife, if she finds out, you'll be in worse trouble than had you told her in the first place. Trust me.

**Booz** · 10-31-2005, 12:04 PM

you want to do roids and not let on to the wife?you may as well tell her,watever you do your gonna look different mate,why can you not telkl her wat you are doin?

***JohnnyB*** · 10-31-2005, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by mb16610

I also had bloodwork done, everything came back normal, but total testosterone was 429ng/dl, which I was told was a little on the low end of "normal" for someone my age.

Whoever told you that is misinformed, the range is 240-1000ng/dl for 40 and above, it's only 260-1000ng/dl for 18-39, so there's not much difference. So as you can see, you are in the normal range.

Don't confuse HRT with cycling, HRT is adding a dose of test to bring test levels into the normal range. If you're already in the normal range and you add test to the mix, it's cycling. So convincing your wife wouldn't be a problem if you needed HRT, because your Dr would put you on and he could explain to her your need for using a steroid to get you into the normal range.

Bro I need to ask this question, do you jump on ideas, then let them fade away? Women have a hard time, going with what they say, if this is their personality. You need to be straight with her, help her understand what gear does and what it doesn't do (the media hype). Once she can get an understanding of what they do, let her make a decision and you need to go with it, unless you don't want to be married to her. Lying in a relationship, is no way to carry on a relationship. Let's be real, it's illegal and it has a taboo about it. If she finds out from someone else, it could have the impact of committing adultery. Here's what you have to decide, is muscle worth more then my marriage, if it is, do her a favor and divorce her now. Once you start lying in a relationship, it becomes easier to lie about something else and they can be bigger lies. You don't want to start something that can lead to the ruin of your marriage, if you do want to, don't hurt her in the process by deceiving her more, then you already have.

I know these are hard words, but thier the truth. How would you feel if your wife asked you if she could buy something, but you knew it could lead to problems. But she behind your back began to buy it anyway, what would your reaction be? Don't expect hers to be any different, it'll more then likely be more, since women are more emotional then men. They take things more to heart, then we do, it's about trust in any relationship. You break that trust and you've damaged that relationship, trust won't be a given anymore, there will always be doubts, until that trust is earned back

When I told my wife I was looking into doing some expensive pro-hormones, she said why don't you just do the real thing. She knew I was researching them, but wasn't sure about them. She knew I'd research them out before using them. In my research, I came to believe I had low test levels. I asked my Dr to run tests on me, he didn't think I needed them but did it anyway. When they came back showing I had low test levels, he said he would of never guessed that. I'm naturally a big guy, so he couldn't imagine me having low test, I've been on HRT ever since

JohnnyB

**Myka** · 10-31-2005, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Triposinator

Bad advice, IMO, based upon a faulty premise that she will find out sometime anyway. Using the same logic, we would all tell a whole bunch of people we are on gear.
Stick with your plan dude.

You tell a lot of other people the same things you tell your wife?

***JohnnyB*** · 10-31-2005, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by NewKid

You tell a lot of other people the same things you tell your wife?

Good point, to add to that, do you live with everyone?

If you can compare someones wife or your wife to everyone, your idea of a relationship sux. Some people just don't think before they talk or they reveal their extent of reasoning logically. How do you compare a wife to the chick at Micky D's or the dude at the corner convenience store

everyone is an all inclusive word, it leaves no one out

JohnnyB

**shortie** · 10-31-2005, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by wolfyEVH

act like you never want to have sex. then tell her its because of your declined test levels.

This would make most married women thrilled. She'll never let you go on HRT.LOL

**Triposinator** · 10-31-2005, 05:38 PM

Dudes can I suggest you stick with what you know....you don't know this guy's wife as well as he does.

**Benches505** · 10-31-2005, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Needle_Newb

She's gonna find out sooner or later. Don't hide stuff from your wife, if she finds out, you'll be in worse trouble than had you told her in the first place. Trust me.

I disagree, while my girlfriend knows and even does my shots my x wife would have called the cops on me had I been jucing then. Know the person and if it's cool tell them, otherwise loose lips sink ships

**BobShocker** · 10-31-2005, 05:58 PM

Different situation kinda - but the whole time i was doing my research on this site my girlfriend was very against even the thought of steroids . I even took her with me to my Dr.'s office so she could ask him questions about everything. The media hype is quite persuasive.

I started things up despite her reservations.

Now after a couple weeks she is starting to see that im not going to go on a crazy roid-rage. She is totally stoked about everything and has even offered to buy my next cycle!! In short - your wife might be against it now . . . but as soon as 3 hour sex sessions start kicking in she'll change her mind . . .

***D7M*** · 10-31-2005, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Whoever told you that is misinformed, the range is 240-1000ng/dl for 40 and above, it's only 260-1000ng/dl for 18-39, so there's not much difference. So as you can see, you are in the normal range.

Don't confuse HRT with cycling, HRT is adding a dose of test to bring test levels into the normal range. If you're already in the normal range and you add test to the mix, it's cycling. So convincing your wife wouldn't be a problem if you needed HRT, because your Dr would put you on and he could explain to her your need for using a steroid to get you into the normal range.

Bro I need to ask this question, do you jump on ideas, then let them fade away? Women have a hard time, going with what they say, if this is their personality. You need to be straight with her, help her understand what gear does and what it doesn't do (the media hype). Once she can get an understanding of what they do, let her make a decision and you need to go with it, unless you don't want to be married to her. Lying in a relationship, is no way to carry on a relationship. Let's be real, it's illegal and it has a taboo about it. If she finds out from someone else, it could have the impact of committing adultery. Here's what you have to decide, is muscle worth more then my marriage, if it is, do her a favor and divorce her now. Once you start lying in a relationship, it becomes easier to lie about something else and they can be bigger lies. You don't want to start something that can lead to the ruin of your marriage, if you do want to, don't hurt her in the process by deceiving her more, then you already have.

I know these are hard words, but thier the truth. How would you feel if your wife asked you if she could buy something, but you knew it could lead to problems. But she behind your back began to buy it anyway, what would your reaction be? Don't expect hers to be any different, it'll more then likely be more, since women are more emotional then men. They take things more to heart, then we do, it's about trust in any relationship. You break that trust and you've damaged that relationship, trust won't be a given anymore, there will always be doubts, until that trust is earned back

When I told my wife I was looking into doing some expensive pro-hormones, she said why don't you just do the real thing. She knew I was researching them, but wasn't sure about them. She knew I'd research them out before using them. In my research, I came to believe I had low test levels. I asked my Dr to run tests on me, he didn't think I needed them but did it anyway. When they came back showing I had low test levels, he said he would of never guessed that. I'm naturally a big guy, so he couldn't imagine me having low test, I've been on HRT ever since

JohnnyB

I agree completely with you JohnnyB. Good post!

**mb16610** · 10-31-2005, 08:21 PM

Geez, I asked for conservative cycle advice and I got a lesson in morals. I feel like I'm back in Catholic School!! ;^) Seriously, all kidding aside, I do appreciate your advice regarding being honest with her but with this topic she won't budge. I even had the HRT doctor speak with her over the phone with no such luck.

Only I know how I have been feeling over the past 5yrs or more, not her. And to be honest, now that I'm in my 4th week, I've never felt better. I seriously can't remember when I had this much energy, nor slept this good. So, I'm in a catch 22 - I come clean and ruin the trust, then become forced off the stuff and feel lousy again, or I just keep it to myself, feel great, and no one has to know.

And for those who asked, I haven't told a soul about what I'm doing, just the people here on the forum.

Which leads me to my next question regarding alleviating the joints with Deca - again, I have no idea what I'm going to "look" like 10 weeks from now on 200mg/wk of test, but will adding 200mg of deca to this mix (during the next cycle) create a drastic difference on how I look at the end of that cycle? I'm not looking to "double" whatever the effects that this cycle produces, just help the joints/tendons...

Thanks again

**operationgetbig** · 10-31-2005, 08:30 PM

jus get some legal supps at gnc and leave em out in the open then ur wife will think it is those supps that's making u stronger

**topvega** · 10-31-2005, 09:24 PM

yeah blame it on the creatine.... or nitrix...lol

**Tedbear981** · 10-31-2005, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by topvega

yeah blame it on the creatine.... or nitrix...lol

Thats what I do when I get that test bloat...its the creatine!!!

**PKP439** · 11-10-2005, 06:47 PM

My Dr. currently has me on 200mg Test Cyp/wk + 200mg Deca /wk (both from a pharmaceutical compounding company). I am 33 years old and am starting my 3rd week tomorrow. I have had a seriously nagging shoulder problem for the past 3 months...it is now all but gone. I have read how I will not notice any effects until the end of week 4 and maybe it is all psychological (my diet is also very clean and high in protein and calories) but I am putting up weight in the gym that I haven't ever done before. Nothing drastic, but 10 -20 lbs more and 1-2 more reps on most exercises. I am very excited to see where this all leads. I also have been hitting the gym with solid gains since I was 15 years old. I was 200 lbs at 5'11" when I started and have gaines 4 lbs since starting.

Hope this is helpful. I would also like to know if anyone thinks that these gains are psychological or if the gear is actually kicking in. This is my first cycle and I truly trust my Dr. He has alot of experience with this even though most would say these are low doses.

**Danbrooks2k** · 11-10-2005, 07:22 PM

yeah I would sit her down and lay it out for her... its your body, you are an adult, you pay at least half the bills ( I am assuming ) and it sounds like you have done some research... I would just tell her that its a decision you have made and its not open for negotiation... if she withholds sex, pouts, nagg's you or says well fine I am gonna go out and do some heroin... well then she is alot like a few of my EX old ladies...

My GF knows how the cow is gonna eat the cabbage in our household... I wouldnt have it anyother way...

NOW... sometimes honesty just wont work with some gals, and sometimes they are worth keeping and just lying to... so yeah get some creatine ( the cheap raw stuff ) and whatever other cheap supplements you can get ahold of... and line em all up on the kitchen counter and just BS her...

stay away from heavy test or dbol anadrol and you should be fine...

**Rickson** · 11-10-2005, 07:45 PM

Putting aside whether you tell her or not I think even the small cycle you are doing is probably going to yield some noticeable results. Anything more would be obvious to most educated people but I have seen many people convince others it is from working out and supps.