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  1. #1
    ramz is offline New Member
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    Smile newbie here, need some advice

    I've been doing my reaserch for while now. I'm still confused. There is so much good info here. Ok here it is...i was looking at cycling and PCT; some members talk about nolva. Some members suggest to run nolva through the entire cycle and others suggest to have handy in case you have some of side effects(ichy and puffy nipples) mostly. Some other members suggest runnging nolva during PCT as well. Other suggest running Clomid, PCT and other suggest runnig both. There is also the use of L-dex during cycling to reduce the aromatization . Well I just don't know so I would like your opinion. I have decided to start my first cycle for 8 weeks, i know this seems really short but i would like to experiment first and see how it goes.

    Week 1-8 Test E. 250mg/week
    Week1-10 Nolva 20mg ed.
    week 1-10 L-dex .25mg ed.

    PCT- Clomid
    day 1 300mg
    day 2-11 100mg ed (every day)
    day 12-21 50 mg ed

    Is this good for a beginner. I just want to run the test at 250, I don't really want to gain a lot of weight. I mean some of you are professional and I understand that you might use a higher dose, but i'm just a regular guy. Would i benifit from using L-dex in this cycle, because i understang that you need some estrogen in your body in order to promote muscle building, as well as for other reasons. Is this good??

    I'm 22 yo, 180 lb, 5'6 --> all my relatives are short. I spend 3 days on, one day off, 3 days on; then a week of rest where i go every other day to the gym. Before i start my cycle i will get other good excersice plan, currently working on it. Anyways i don't mean to bore you.
    Last edited by ramz; 11-17-2005 at 09:16 PM.

  2. #2
    sexybeast is offline Junior Member
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    sounds good bro
    IF youd bump that test e to 500mg a wk ud b glad u did tho!

  3. #3
    snowman's Avatar
    snowman is offline Senior Member
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    looks good... you can run the nolva at 10 mg ed (cut it in half).
    i only run the nolva, IF i need it; once i feel the ichy and puffy nipples, i take 40 mg of nolva a day, untill the puffy and ichy nipples go away, then i cut it down to 10 mg a day.... different people react different to test, that's why there is differrent opinions, but the way you are doing it, is fine.
    Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

  4. #4
    symatech's Avatar
    symatech is offline Retired Moderator
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    When it comes to anti estrogens there are a million and a half ways to run them. Everybody seems to develop their own preference based on experience with them. Who is right? In short mostly everybody. The best advice I can give you is to get as many opinions as you can. Then the only way you will really find out what works best for you is to actually run it. Basically, you just need to build the experience. Don't be in a rush to do this though, things happen in good time.

    Personally, I like clomid and nolva in my pct. I've run just about every combination of anti-e's that I can think of and for my money nothing gets me back to normal sooner than that. You may be different. You have laid out a classic approach to pct. It's been around for awhile, give it a try. Personally I have problems with clomid that high in dose, it tends to make me emotional so I keep it lower.

  5. #5
    bigJJ's Avatar
    bigJJ is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by symatech
    When it comes to anti estrogens there are a million and a half ways to run them. Everybody seems to develop their own preference based on experience with them. Who is right? In short mostly everybody. The best advice I can give you is to get as many opinions as you can. Then the only way you will really find out what works best for you is to actually run it. Basically, you just need to build the experience. Don't be in a rush to do this though, things happen in good time.

    Personally, I like clomid and nolva in my pct. I've run just about every combination of anti-e's that I can think of and for my money nothing gets me back to normal sooner than that. You may be different. You have laid out a classic approach to pct. It's been around for awhile, give it a try. Personally I have problems with clomid that high in dose, it tends to make me emotional so I keep it lower.

    Well put and I agree. Clomid @300 mg even for a day seems high for me. Perhaps 200 mg? But, as stated, everyone is different.

    Also, as stated, 500 mg of Test is not a bad way to start, though at your height and weight, 250 mg/wk will make you very happy.

    My only gripe would be with your proposed time frame. With the Enanthate ester, you may not even begin to notice results before week 5 - 6 (some do sooner, around week 4). Trust me, at week 8 you will be wanting to continue the upward progression you will be seeing in weight and strength. 12 weeks is preferred in my opinion.

    That said, 8 weeks is not bad, you will gain from it, and you will be happy with those gains.

    As has been said by symatech "there are a million and a half ways to run anti estrogens". Just a suggestion, but hold off on the Nolva until you feel you need it (gyno symptoms). If nips get puffy, itchy or sore, run the Nolva at 20-40 mg/day until gone. The way I see it, why treat a problem that doesn't exist?

    I started as you did, with every precaution. Then I stopped the nolva (just to experiment). No gyno symptoms for well over a month now. No need to take a med that isn't needed, right? Again, everyone is different, and you may be more prone to gyno than others. Don't take it lightly. If you feel you need it, start the nolva at 20mg/day until symptoms are gone.

    In the end, keep your PCT the way it is, except...weeks 1 - 11 Clomid 100 mg/ed (taper down as stated by you) and add nolva 20 mg/ed for the length of the PCT. (trying the higher dose of Clomid for the first day is not dangerous to my knowledge, I just don't see it as necessary. Especially for the short cycle you have proposed.)

    Good luck, my friend. Have fun. Eat right and train hard.

  6. #6
    ramz is offline New Member
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    Would I benefit from using L-dex or would the nolva do just fine. Ok, so I will change my PCT to:
    day 1-11 100mg ed (every day)
    day 12-21 50 mg ed

    I belive I would be happy with the gains I make running the test at 250mg. Thanks for your help guys, i really appreciate it.

  7. #7
    Reprisal 6's Avatar
    Reprisal 6 is offline Associate Member
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    8 weeks with test E is too short IMO. Extend that a bit longer. You will be waiting to see results and then trying to recover longer than you will be making gains! 4 weeks to "kick in" then 4 weeks "on" and 3 weeks PCT

  8. #8
    ramz is offline New Member
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    Thanks guys keep the opinions coming, I'm saving all this down. This is great, I like this place there is a lot of support.

  9. #9
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    PunkOff is offline Associate Member
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    Id say at LEAST 10 weeks on test, preferably 12, thats only 3 months. Do it at 500mg twice a week, 250 on mon, 250 on thurs. As for nolva--id only throw it in when you see need to use it, some people never see side effects.

  10. #10
    joop is offline Junior Member
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    Save your money, buy some food. Start eating properly, come back in 1yr when you have some muscle, these pics are a joke.

  11. #11
    fitnessguy's Avatar
    fitnessguy is offline Anabolic Member
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    easy now joop. you've got a point but damn! kinda harsh huh?
    ramz, i would run the test @ 500mg for 12 weeks. prop would be a better choice if you want a short cycle, but not for a first IMO (unless you like ED injections for some sick reason as some of you do )
    as for the ancillaries, i agree with symatech
    and PCT should be longer IMO 4-5 weeks

  12. #12
    joop is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry, was just a little stunned nobody had pointed this out. I mean, I don't think you have to reach your genetic maximum before using gear, but at least build something of a base, you know. This guy is gonna literally double in size if he does a cycle now, it is going to be so obvious to anyone he knows that he's juicing. Isn't there a thread titled "Guys who gain 25-30lbs per cycle... ", this will be him.

    Edit : I will quote Phreezer from the thread I just mentioned, "So in the end my advice is this.. if you are wanting to add some mass..and you’re stuck.. learn a different training method.. change your diet.. and if you’re a good size.. (that’s when everyone who is in the room with you knows you’re a weight lifter.. if you walk in a room, and everyone in there doesn’t know that you lift… you are not ready for steroids) then come and sit down.. and we’ll talk about steroids .. until then… Learn how to train.. learn how to eat.. and spend some time in the gym.. you’ll be so much better off in the end…". Classic advice in my opinion.
    Last edited by joop; 11-13-2005 at 03:53 PM.

  13. #13
    edgardo387 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramz
    I've been doing my reaserch for while now. I'm still confused. There is so much good info here. Ok here it is...i was looking at cycling and PCT; some members talk about nolva. Some members suggest to run nolva through the entire cycle and others suggest to have handy in case you have some of side effects(ichy and puffy nipples) mostly. Some other members suggest runnging nolva during PCT as well. Other suggest running Clomid, PCT and other suggest runnig both. There is also the use of L-dex during cycling to reduce the aromatization . Well I just don't know so I would like your opinion. I have decided to start my first cycle for 8 weeks, i know this seems really short but i would like to experiment first and see how it goes.

    Week 1-8 Test E. 250mg/week
    Week1-10 Nolva 20mg ed.
    week 1-10 L-dex .25mg ed.

    PCT- Clomid
    day 1 300mg
    day 2-11 100mg ed (every day)
    day 12-21 50 mg ed

    Is this good for a beginner. I just want to run the test at 250, I don't really want to gain a lot of weight. I mean some of you are professional and I understand that you might use a higher dose, but i'm just a regular guy. Would i benifit from using L-dex in this cycle, because i understang that you need some estrogen in your body in order to promote muscle building, as well as for other reasons. Is this good??

    I'm 22 yo, 180 lb, 5'6 --> all my relatives are short. I spend 3 days on, one day off, 3 days on; then a week of rest where i go every other day to the gym. Before i start my cycle i will get other good excersice plan, currently working on it. Anyways i don't mean to bore you, here are some pics.

    ude, why dont u just take clomid afte ryour cycle?? i have done it in teh past, and that is what I amgoing to do with my dbol /anavar cycle, I am going to start. I thik that is a little high dosage too. I will only take 200 mg's for 10 days, i have been told that is enough, and in the past it has been enough for me.

  14. #14
    ramz is offline New Member
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    Thanks for your reply guys...and the criticisms is well appreciated. This has help me a lot.

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