After cycle HCG before or after pct???

Have a question about HCG I want to add it to my pct.

I finished my cycle on the 10 of this month so I have 4 more days.

I also have clomid and Novla.

My Question to you is:

Do I take the HCG 500 iu EOD? After discontinuance, Clomid at 100mg a day and Nolvadex at 20mg a day. Or take the HCG first and two weeks later take Clomid and Novla for 3 weeks????

I got people telling me take it before and people telling me to take it after also got people telling me 500iu eod for two weeks and got people telling me 500iu 2 times a week for two weeks!!!

Also clomid 300mg first day and then 100mg Ed after for 2 weeks. Then 1 week 50mg.

This will be the first time that I mixed HCG with clomid and Novla.
So if anyone can help that would be appreciated

you dont take HCG with your PCT gear....its defeats the purpose.....HCG mimmicks LH and makes your body think you're producing LH naturally (which you're really not). PCT is all about getting your LH and FSH up, and that in turn gets your test and sperm levels back up

first take 100-200iu e3rd
use an aromatase inhibitor
there is no issue with using during PCT, though many people use just at the beginning

hcg does not mimic LH though they both bind to the same receptor

so not 500 eod just 200 e 3rd day

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfyEVH

you dont take HCG with your PCT gear....its defeats the purpose.....HCG mimmicks LH and makes your body think you're producing LH naturally (which you're really not). PCT is all about getting your LH and FSH up, and that in turn gets your test and sperm levels back up

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Wolfy so why dose a lot of guys say to take it just before your pct??

I'm with Macro on this one. Take HCG (2weeks) with clomid and nolva. HCG will end first then continue with clomid nolva at least another 2 weeks. Here is where I differ. Remember I am old school, I believe in 2000 IU day 1, 2000 IU day 4, then 1500 every 3rd day til 10000 IU's are used up. Alot I will say depends on the severity of your suppression which will adversely relate to the length on your cycle and the strength (dosage of your gear) and the type of gear you are taking. But YES, HCG with PCT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha

first take 100-200iu e3rd
use an aromatase inhibitor
there is no issue with using during PCT, though many people use just at the beginning

hcg does not mimic LH though they both bind to the same receptor

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Are you sure about this....... I can post studies that say other wise.

ok Mud man what should I do then????

I just want to do what most people do not some thing out of wack!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMudMan

Are you sure about this....... I can post studies that say other wise.

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i was gonna say.....

Well I know wolfy from another board so I think I will just go with what he said.

Thanks all for the input!!!

So I will just use the comid and novla for my pct.

Clonid 300mg first day then 100 mg ed for 2 weeks then 50 mg ed for 1 week

Also novla at 20 mg ed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tawweiliu

Well I know wolfy from another board so I think I will just go with what she said.

Thanks all for the input!!!

So I will just use the comid and novla for my pct.

Clonid 300mg first day then 100 mg ed for 2 weeks then 50 mg ed for 1 week

Also novla at 20 mg ed

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last time i checked i was a he!!

yes I know @!!! ;)

It's hard to remember with that nice photo you have ;)

I did read up on hcg and it seems like a lot of people like it for pct.

Why is that???? and if not when should I use it after pct or before a cycle???

HCG should be used durring the cycle to help keep atrophy to a minimum........ this will help make recovery a lot easier. HCG could also be used near the end of the cycle but durring is best.

From what I have read HCG does mimic LH and will keep clomid from restoring HPTA functions.

For PCT I feel this works the best in getting HPTA back up.......... I run PCT for at least 30 days longer if I feel I need it

Day 1 - 30 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex / 4g Tribulus

I also use ZMA at night

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMudMan

Are you sure about this....... I can post studies that say other wise.

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those studies would be incorrect. chorionic gonatropin and lutropin(also called LH) do bind to the same receptor complex, they have different activity.

both of these are naturally occuring hormones in the human body.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha

those studies would be incorrect. chorionic gonatropin and lutropin(also called LH) do bind to the same receptor complex, they have different activity.

both of these are naturally occuring hormones in the human body.

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so hookers profiles are wrong??

"HCG basically “acts” as Leutenizing Hormone (LH) in your body"

"The use of HCG will send an artificial signal to the testes (again, as if it were actually LH), thus preventing (to some degree) atrophy."

you're right they have different activities....but thats in pregnant women......HCG is there in the early stages of pregnancy to maintain progesterone production in the corpus luteum until the placenta is able to make sufficient amounts of it.

we're talking about for bodybuilding purposes.....what else does it do then if it doesn't "mimmick" LH and stimulate the leydig cells to produce test? :scratch:

I got a top notch endocrinologist who just happened to have worked with lots of pros including a Mister Olympia who told me to run HCG concurrent with clomid and nolva for pct. Just reiterating what the doc said.

wow!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha

those studies would be incorrect. chorionic gonatropin and lutropin(also called LH) do bind to the same receptor complex, they have different activity.

both of these are naturally occuring hormones in the human body.

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If you have these studies I think you should post them..........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMudMan

If you have these studies I think you should post them..........

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I'd like to ee the evidence too, real world experiance says different and studies too. I need to read the eveidence that HCG doesn't mimic LH. That's who it keeps the boys alive during a cycle

JohnnyB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMudMan

HCG should be used durring the cycle to help keep atrophy to a minimum........ this will help make recovery a lot easier. HCG could also be used near the end of the cycle but durring is best.

From what I have read HCG does mimic LH and will keep clomid from restoring HPTA functions.

For PCT I feel this works the best in getting HPTA back up.......... I run PCT for at least 30 days longer if I feel I need it

Day 1 - 30 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex / 4g Tribulus

I also use ZMA at night

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Remember I am in Taiwan so I can't get all that stuff!!!
I can only get Clomid and Novla. My cycle was 9 weeks of test e at 750mg a week. So still go with the Day 1 - 30 100mg Clomid / 20mg Novla????

Hey MudMan why do a lot of guys say you should take 300mg of clomid the first day????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha

first take 100-200iu e3rd
use an aromatase inhibitor
there is no issue with using during PCT, though many people use just at the beginning

hcg does not mimic LH though they both bind to the same receptor

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HCG does not mimic LH??? please explain...

There are 2 schools of thought on HCG use... both aim to attain the same goal, to keep your balls at full size, ready for PCT with Nolva... You can take it while on cycle to prevent shrinkage from ever happening, or take it at the end of a cycle at slightly higher doses, right before your final PCT, to quickly regrow them if they have indeed shrunk. either way, you should run Nolva 20mg ED in your PCT, and run an AI with your HCG and nolva. HCG is known to cause an estrogen spike, head it off before it does damage. Since you are at the end of your cycle, it is fitting for you to use the end of cycle regimen for your HCG, Nolva and AI (i recommend aromasin). Take as follows : (remember you start your pct depending on what your aas are, for example, start PCT 2 weeks after test e, 3 weeks after deca, etc.)

PCT week 1-2 500iu HCG EOD
PCT week 1-3 20mg aromasin ED
PCT week 1-6 20mg Nolva ED (or until sex drive is back)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMudMan

If you have these studies I think you should post them..........

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happy reading

http://www.ihop-net.org/UniPub/iHOP/gs/89834.html

most importantly (from the body bulider standpoint) is differential effects on Thyrotropin releasing hormone and prolactin.

as a note- this does not mean that its not suitable for the intended use. It still does have the effects desired from LH, but it also has other effects which are not so desirable hence the need to anticipate and "deal" with those issues.

btw- pure r-hLH (alpha) is sold under the trade name luveris.

my f-ing head is spinning...

HCG is used during cycle to maintain testicular mass and function, NOT to recover the HPT axis.

This is from your link http://www.ihop-net.org/UniPub/iHOP/gs/89834.html

Although a large number of naturally occurring activating mutations of the human LH receptor (hLHR) and human TSH receptor (hTSHR) have been identified, only one activating mutation of the human FSH receptor (hFSHR) has been found.
Glycoprotein hormone receptors [thyrotropin (TSHr), luteinizing hormone/chorionic gonadotropin (LH/CGr), follicle stimulating hormone (FSHr)] are rhodopsin-like G protein-coupled receptors with a large extracellular N-terminal portion responsible for hormone recognition and binding.
The glycoprotein hormone receptors (thyrotrophin receptor, TSHr; luteinizing hormone/chorionic gonadotrophin receptor, LH/CGr; follicle-stimulating hormone receptor, FSHr) constitute a subfamily of rhodopsin-like G protein-coupled receptors (GPCRs) with a long N-terminal extracellular extension responsible for high-affinity hormone binding.
Although they all failed to respond to hCG with increased receptor phosphorylation, they all internalized hCG faster than wild-type hLHR [?] (hLHR-wt).
It has been shown previously that a naturally occurring mutation of the human LH/CG receptor (hLHR [?]), which replaces L457 in helix III with arginine, results in a receptor that constitutively elevates basal cAMP but does not respond to human CG (hCG) with further cAMP production.
Despite highly elevated endogenous LH serum levels, the response to hCG [?] indicates a possible dual mechanism of hormone binding and signal transduction for hCG [?] and LH on a LHR that lacks exon 10.
We propose that this adhesion allows Inv(+)GC to activate LHr and induce gonococcal transcytosis, usurping normal LHr function in fallopian and endometrial epithelium, which is to transport fetal chorionic gonadotropin (hCG [?]) into the mother.
Pursuing with the characterization of the biochemical interaction, we performed co-transfection experiments in COS-7 cells and we observed, by measurement of the intracellular cAMP produced and by FACS experiments, that the co-expression of two membrane proteins (PRA1, NIS, LH/CGR with TSHR) alters their expression.
Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG [?]) is a member of the family of glycoprotein hormones containing a common alpha-subunit and distinct beta-subunits that confer hormonal specificity. hCG [?] binds to the relatively large ectodomain of the human luteinizing hormone receptor (hLHR), a member of the G protein-coupled receptor superfamily, leading to increased intracellular production of cAMP.
Our previous studies have demonstrated that rat epididymis expressed luteinizing hormone receptor (LHR), tissue type (t) and urokinase type (u)PA, mRNAs, and tPA activity was stimulated in vitro by human chorionic gonoadotrophin (HCG).
We hypothesize that ARF6 might also serve GPCRs other than the LH/CG R to regulate the availability of arrestin 2 for receptor desensitization.
We therefore sought direct evidence that activation of the LH/CG R promotes activation of ARF1 and/or ARF6.
TNFalpha significantly inhibited hCG/PRL-induced StAR and LHR mRNA expression at 1 and 3 h post-TNFalpha.
It is suggested that the luteolytic effect of TNFalpha may be mediated by its direct inhibition on StAR expression or by an indirect decrease in LHR expression.
The present study was designed to examine the effect of this cytokine on changes in expression of the luteinizing hormone receptor (LHR) messenger RNA and of the steroidogenic enzyme, CYP11A1 (cytochrome P450 scc) in an in vitro model of granulosa cell maturation.
Immunoneutralization of endogenous granulosa cell IL-6 [?] resulted in an increase in expression of LHR mRNA, but not CYP11A1 mRNA.


That study is very hard to read with all of the damn links popping up as you move through.

I'm not sure this backs up exactly what you are trying to say. This was the only part I found in the study somewhat close.

My eyes hurt...someone else read it and tell me what it said. The conclusion was even hard to read.

peace,

ttgb

bump!!

Want to here more about this. I think this is good news to know.

23 years of gearing and always HCG with nolva/clomid during pct and always, always a good blood test. I must be doing something right.

I'd kinda like to throw it in during my cycle just a lil and then run it high, at the end of the cycle,with nolv and aromasin, but before clomid starts.
That way maybe my nads wouldn't shrink as much and post cycle would be smoother.:scratch:

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Originally Posted by powerliftmike

HCG is used during cycle to maintain testicular mass and function, NOT to recover the HPT axis.

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agreed 100%

At risk of sounding like an idiot on this matter:

Are the estrogenic sides of HCG lowered while running it DURING the cycle, due to the concurent use of, let's say, Test E, for example? Or is it still wise to accompany HCG dosages with Nolvadex? :?: