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There seems to be loads of anecdotal evidence on the net about how sustanon produces less water retention than test e or cyp and that Omnadren has the most water retention of any testosterone. It even seems the rollcoaster blood levels associated with test blends would make it worse if anything. I can't seem to find any "real" reason for this. Any experiences or ideas with this?
bump
bump for yah ive always wondered the same
bump too
could it be that there are less of each type of test ester, therefore they contribute less to water retention individually versus a lot more of a single ester? I have no idea and this may be way off. bump for a scientific answer.
I don't have a scientific answer......... but I have ran Enan, Prop, Cyp and Sus.... Prop def was no bloating........ Sus for me is very little bloating as well...... I do injections EOD so that could also be why.
Can't bloating be kept very low through use of anit-e's?
Yep, AI would keep bloating to a minimum...... but even with an AI I have seen more bloating on Enan and Cyp then the other esters.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdMan2
Have you experienced any negative sides from using an AI regularly, like joint pain, loss of sex drive, etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMudMan
Interested in some more replys. Also, does Omna have more bloating that test e or cyp?
the old omna did, the new omna is almost identical to sustanon except one ester i beleiveQuote:
Originally Posted by powerliftmike
Mike,this is a very good question.First Omnadren does not have the most water retention of any testosterone.To get answers her we must talk about esters.There are many different esters that are used with anabolic/androgenic steroids, but again, they all do basically the same thing. Esters vary only in their ability to reduce a steroid's water solubility. An ester like propionate for example will slow the release of a steroid for a few days, while the duration will be weeks with a decanoate ester. Esters have no effect on the tendency for the parent steroid to convert to estrogen or DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite) nor will it effect the overall muscle-building potency of the compound. Any differences in results and side effects that may be noted by bodybuilders who have used various esterified versions of the same base steroid are just issues of timing. Testosterone enanthate causes estrogen related problems more readily than Sustanon, simply because with enanthate testosterone levels will peak and trough much sooner (1-2 week release duration as opposed to 3 or 4). Likewise testosterone suspension is the worst in regards to gyno and water bloat because blood hormone levels peak so quickly with this drug. Instead of waiting weeks for testosterone levels to rise to their highest point, here we are at most looking at a couple of days. Given an equal blood level of testosterone, there would be no difference in the rate of aromatization or DHT conversion between different esters. There is simply no mechanism for this to be possible.Your are right that Omnadren produces alot of water the reason is the Caproate,it is the slowest releasing ester used in Omnadren, which is why most athletes notice more water retention with this,and a reason why test Sus produces less.
An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation.Mike I`m not a fan of test Sus.But for the bodybuilder who is injecting 4 ampules of Sustanon per week, there is no advantage over other testosterone products. In fact, the high price tag for Sustanon usually makes it a very poor buy in the face of cheaper testosterone enanthate/cypionate. Bodybuilders should probably stop looking at the four ester issue, and stick with totals (Sustanon is just a 250mg testosterone ampule). Were enanthate to be available for say $10 per amp of 250mg, and Sustanon priced nearly double that, buying the Sustanon would be like throwing money away. If you could get nearly double the milligram amount for the same price with enanthate, this is the better product to go with hands down. Leave the high priced stuff for the guys who don't know any better.
goose4......
Thanks for good reply goose. What are all the arguments about long esters being worse since the long ester is heavier and would be part of the test e 250 giving you only 200mg of test, while with prop with its ester's lower molecular weight you might get 225mg from a 250mg amp? I thought the 'mg' amount measured only the test anyway?
Obviously this problem can be corrected by raising the dose, but I am just curious if this is true.
As Arnold use to say `lets take it back to basics` .The first test invented by the great germans Test Sus, It has no ester attached; therefore no ester is calculated into the weight. This is extremely beneficial to the user since 100mg of testosterone suspension will yield 100mg!!!!! of testosterone unlike the other esterfied testosterones such as (for example) testosterone enanthate which only yields 72mg of actual testosterone per 100mg of total weight.We call this test Ratio to weight.Every test has it`s own Ratio-as you said adjust dose according to the level of dose you desire.It`s a little to some of the orals,Examlpe,with Primo tabs you only have 40% absorption rate after it gets broken down in the liver-so to get 1000mgs in your blood stream in a week,you would have to take 300mgs daily.It`s crazy stuff that makes my mind go insane in the membrane,the calculations,therory and science that goes behind ASS. Research..... research ......... research .The main thing mike,don`t use test Sus.
goose4............
You didn't get bloat from the prop because of the Anti-E, or because you just didn't get bloat? You injected EOD? What was the dose and what was the acne like? Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMudMan
I am not the person to answer that question, since I didn't say that, but test doesn't give me much acne at all and bloat can be controlled with ldex or proviron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Stacked_Pimp
Bodybuilders should probably stop looking at the four ester issue, and stick with totals (Sustanon is just a 250mg testosterone ampule). Were enanthate to be available for say $10 per amp of 250mg, and Sustanon priced nearly double that, buying the Sustanon would be like throwing money away. If you could get nearly double the milligram amount for the same price with enanthate, this is the better product to go with hands down. Leave the high priced stuff for the guys who don't know any better.
goose4......[/QUOTE]
what if you could get both for $10 bucks a ml??
would you still say Cypionate or Enanthate would be better all around.
I only ask because I origianally was going to go with Prop for 12 wks,but its twice as expensive as the Cyp i can get,also less shots would be nice aswell.
Then my source said he didnt like what the Cyp was doing to his friends body(lots of water)and he is now recomending the Sust.....Now I've done Sust before,and didn't retain too much water,but i think I would prefer to try a single estered test,so I can get test levels back to normal as soon as possible.....
I guess my question is....will Cyp give me more water retention than the Sus?