Re: My vist to the doctor...
Quote:
Originally posted by ECKO 747
Well I just came back from my Doc... I orginally went in for two reasons:
1. Check my lower back (I've had some minor back pain) and
2. Talk about sauce...
Ok well the good thing is that there is nothing wrong with my lower back (my muscles must be sore or its something that a little physio couldn't fix) thank god!!!
But when the conversation turned to steriods... The picture changed...
My doc (a sports doctor mind -you)... made me feel like the SCUM of the Earth for taking them.... When I asked if he would at least monitar me (Liver, Blood, test level etc...) he just politely tried to conceal his disgust and said NO (his reasoning is that he would be supporting me in an illegal and more importanly immoral endevour)....
Basiclly the guy made me feel like a drug addict, skid-row piece of shit..
I though doctors were supposed to be supportive and non-judgemental.
Ecko 747
I know how you feel bro, same thing happened to me when I asked my Dr. about it last year. That's why it took me another 10 months to get the courage to come on this board.
Believe It Or Not, I'll Keep this Brief . . .
Quote:
Originally posted by hitmeoff
What a dick!
Is it even legal for a doctor to refuse service? Maybe you can sue him for medical malpractice.
First, the doctor cannot be sued for malpractice. He or she has just as much a "right of conscience" as, say, a physician who is oppsed to doing abortions (another medical area in which there is a diversity of opinions).
Is the doctor a dick? Not necessarily. He is obviously a doctor who is conscientiously opposed to becoming involved with anabolic steroids in any capacity. No more, no less. Your solution is quite simple: Find another doctor who is not so opposed to AS - they are out there.
For those of you who have taken philosophy in college, remember Joseph Fletcher's Situation Ethics? Fletcher's theory is that if something is bad, it becomes good when it is done for a good purpose. Go back to abortion for a moment. Assuming abortion per se is bad, take the case of an ectopic pregnancy, in which the embryo becomes lodged in the fallopian tubes rather than moving on to the uterus. The situational ethicist would say that abortion, being medically necessary for the life of the mother, becomes good. Most other people would say that it's still bad, but it's the lesser of evils.
To take an example closer to AS, look at the needle exchange programs found in several large cities, in which drug addicts may bring their used needles/syringes in and exchange them for new ones. The situationalist would say that passing out needles to drug addicts is good (insofar as it helps prevent infection and the spread of HIV, keeing in mind that many addicts share needles); the realist would say that contributing to drug abuse is not good, but it is the lesser of evils because it can help prevent infection and teh spread of HIV.
A truly hip physician would realize that you, a bodybuilder or weight lifter, are going to use AS regardless of any moralistic tap dancing he or she does. And a realistic physician would, at the least, recognize that keeping your health at optimum levels is important enough that they should at least monitor your levels andn provide you with realistic advice - facts, rather than the type of crap that was spewed in the classic cult film Reefer Madness.
But for one problem: Most (yes, not many, but most) physicians are not literate when it comes to anabolic steroids. This is not the type of thing that receives major coverage in medical school, at least from the perspective of weight lifting. You're delving into an area that is new to most doctors, so it's no wonder that many of them will not want any involvement that they feel contributes to your use.
So face it and move on . . . to another physician. Don't expect to find one that will prescribe anything that is AS-related for you (including Clomid, Nolvadex, or Arimidex - most doctors will check out the clinical indications for these drugs in the Physicians' Desk Reference and reject the notion of going outside the box by prescribing them for AS-related goals). But do expect to find one, perhaps after some trial and error, who will at least monitor your labs and present you with clinical feedback (but not an endorsement of your activities) to the best of his or her ability.
Re: Believe It Or Not, I'll Keep this Brief . . .
Quote:
Originally posted by TNT
First, the doctor cannot be sued for malpractice. He or she has just as much a "right of conscience" as, say, a physician who is oppsed to doing abortions (another medical area in which there is a diversity of opinions).
Is the doctor a dick? Not necessarily. He is obviously a doctor who is conscientiously opposed to becoming involved with anabolic steroids in any capacity. No more, no less. Your solution is quite simple: Find another doctor who is not so opposed to AS - they are out there.
For those of you who have taken philosophy in college, remember Joseph Fletcher's Situation Ethics? Fletcher's theory is that if something is bad, it becomes good when it is done for a good purpose. Go back to abortion for a moment. Assuming abortion per se is bad, take the case of an ectopic pregnancy, in which the embryo becomes lodged in the fallopian tubes rather than moving on to the uterus. The situational ethicist would say that abortion, being medically necessary for the life of the mother, becomes good. Most other people would say that it's still bad, but it's the lesser of evils.
To take an example closer to AS, look at the needle exchange programs found in several large cities, in which drug addicts may bring their used needles/syringes in and exchange them for new ones. The situationalist would say that passing out needles to drug addicts is good (insofar as it helps prevent infection and the spread of HIV, keeing in mind that many addicts share needles); the realist would say that contributing to drug abuse is not good, but it is the lesser of evils because it can help prevent infection and teh spread of HIV.
A truly hip physician would realize that you, a bodybuilder or weight lifter, are going to use AS regardless of any moralistic tap dancing he or she does. And a realistic physician would, at the least, recognize that keeping your health at optimum levels is important enough that they should at least monitor your levels andn provide you with realistic advice - facts, rather than the type of crap that was spewed in the classic cult film Reefer Madness.
But for one problem: Most (yes, not many, but most) physicians are not literate when it comes to anabolic steroids. This is not the type of thing that receives major coverage in medical school, at least from teh perspective of weight lifting. You're deling into an area that is new to most doctors, so it's no wonder that many of them will not want any involvement that they feel contributes to your use.
So face it and move on . . . to another physician. Don't expect to find one that will prescribe anything that is AS-related for you (including Clomid, Nolvadex, or Arimidex - most doctors will check out the clinical indications for these drugs in the Physician's Desk Reference and reject the notion of going outside the box by prescribing them for AS-related goals). But do expect to find one, perhaps after some trial and error, who will at least monitor your labs and present you with clinical feedback (but not an endorsement of your activities) to the best of his or her ability.
A doctors first priority should be the health and well being of his patients. Taking a "stand" and refusing to simply monitor a patients health whether or not its during a cycle is a violation of that idea. This doctor puts his own personal biases infront of his medical duty, as far as Im concerned, that makes him a dick. End of story
Every class has one, too . . .
hitmeoff, if it helps clarify things, I have taught both law and ethics at the graduate school level, notwithstanding that I'm more than twice your age.
This is not a philosophical debate, bro - let's not turn it into one.
And that is the end of the story. :D
Re: Every class has one, too . . .
Obviously
I cant aregue against anyones personal views, however when one takes on the profession of being a doctor, one usually agrees to take care of his patient to the best of his abilities. Thats the nature of the profession.
H
Quote:
Originally posted by TNT
hitmeoff, if it helps clarify things, I have taught both law and ethics at the graduate school level, notwithstanding that I'm more than twice your age.
This is not a philosophical debate, bro - let's not turn it into one.
And that is the end of the story. :D
Reality check, gentlemen...
I know I said that I was not interested in debate, but here's a freebie - from the perspective of one who has taught many doctors...
Steroids are illegal, period. Unlike my abortion example - something that is legal under Roe v. Wade, there is no constitutional right to shoot AS into your bod.
It is a fine point, but there are good doctors and bad doctors, competent ones and incompetent ones, honest ones and sleazebags. And before I had a doctor who would kiss my testosterone-injected butt, I would want one that was a great diagnostician and who would give me sound, competent medical advice.
As I mentioned, there are physicians who will assist you in the testing and monitoring process, but they are not in the majority. Hell, there are also physicians - a very few - who may even prescribe stroids to you if you do not have a legitimate medical reason for them, just as there are physicians who will prescribe Oxycontin without a legitimate medical reason (hence the number of prosecutions we are now seeing against such physicians).
Guess what, kiddies - physicians do not owe you squat. You are informing your physician that you are doing something illegal - remember, some steroids are Schedule III drugs, in the same class as opiates and amphetamines. Physician-patient confidentiality notwithstanding, many doctors choose not to participate in that activity in any way. Their job, if anything, is to convince you not to do AS.
In the mind of a physician who does a tap dance to convince you not to use AS, he or she is looking after "the health and well being" of the patient. And ultimately, if you are going to use AS, you are the one who has to take responsibility for it - indeed, most people who use AS do, in fact, do them without medical supervision.
If you can find a doctor who will monitor your levels and who is not a medical whore, go for it - they are out there. But don't think that any physician "owes" it to you to provide an impramateur for your AS use.
When it comes down to a choice of doctor, I'd rather have one that knows how to competently treat a heart attack if I ever have one, who knows how to diagnose a condition that I might acquire, and in terms of my AS use, someone who knows what he is talking about. (And my guess is that the physician under discussion in this thread doesn't know about steroids in the first place. Which means, by nature, that he wouldn't even know what tests to order. Whether y'all like it or not, 'Roids 101 is not a course in medical school.)
For what it's worth, the main reason I am able to have specific tests done is that I write up my own lab work orders. That's because my physician is aware, thanks to a relationship of many years, that I know what I am doing and will not abuse that privilege. (And fortunately, he does know about AS and is also a competent doctor.) But this all happened via trial and error, and takes place a minority of the time.
Some of you know more than your own physicians about anabolic steroids. (And some of you just think you do. :D) Look around, and you can find a physician who will monitor your levels. But don't freak out if some physicians go through a moralistic tap dance about AS - maybe the guy had one or more patients who didn't know what they were doing and had negative medical consequences. I"m not trying to make an excuse for the guy, but as far as whining if a physician is not willing to participate in your "program," get over it - it's part of the game. The ultimate responsibility rests with you.
The only physician who "owes" you, even in terms of treating you at all, is the one in the emergency rom if you screw up. Legally, no physician has to treat you for anything - he or she can refer you to another physician at any time. So if your physician doesn't want to treat you (again, for anything), look around for another one and don't stomp the ground in what is no more than a fruitless display of whining.
Re: My vist to the doctor...
Quote:
Originally posted by ECKO 747
Well I just came back from my Doc... I orginally went in for two reasons:
1. Check my lower back (I've had some minor back pain) and
2. Talk about sauce...
Ok well the good thing is that there is nothing wrong with my lower back (my muscles must be sore or its something that a little physio couldn't fix) thank god!!!
But when the conversation turned to steriods... The picture changed...
My doc (a sports doctor mind -you)... made me feel like the SCUM of the Earth for taking them.... When I asked if he would at least monitar me (Liver, Blood, test level etc...) he just politely tried to conceal his disgust and said NO (his reasoning is that he would be supporting me in an illegal and more importanly immoral endevour)....
Basiclly the guy made me feel like a drug addict, skid-row piece of shit..
I though doctors were supposed to be supportive and non-judgemental.
Time to find a new M.D.
