Thread: stupid HCG!
12-02-2005, 12:27 AM #1
So i've decided that nobody has any freakin clue on how HCG should be run. there must be about 34636 dif ways people say to run it.. some say 500iu 2xweek through cycle, others say 500iu ED for 10 days before pct, theres the 1500ius then take it down every other day till sex drive comes back... well i'll tell you what. im on a 15 week cycle of test e at 550 and deca 400 and jumped it with dbol . I've got about 4 weeks till my last shot. and next week i'm gonna start running it at 500iu every 3 days and stop 3 days before i begin my clomid.. i'm gonna run it with 20mgs of nolva and .25 Adex... and i'm going to keep the nolva and Adex through my pct. My pct is going to include clomid, nolva, adex, clen , creatine and lots of trib.. and i'll be sure to remember to come back and let you all know how that worked out for me. I'm trying to stop myself from being shut down cause it happend before and it sucks and i want to keep about every bit of muscle i gained and maybe drop some body fat with alittle help from the clen.
12-02-2005, 12:52 AM #2
12-02-2005, 12:59 AM #3
12-02-2005, 01:50 AM #4
Sounds like you've got a pretty good grasp on it. Looks good to me, just that and what Pinn said.
12-02-2005, 05:29 AM #5
Ya, ya... HCG e3d or eod at 500ius throughout an androgenic cycle is the new protocol. It makes a lot of sense and there have been studies on it showing it's effectivness. Search the forum and you will find a few clinical studies doing it in lower dosages throughout. Something like a "keepin the horses in the barn" statement by the doctor.
A few peeps can probably tell I'm reving up for my next cycle in about 4-6 weeks? I can't wait to get in the sandbox with you guys again. I'm a PCT bitch right now.
Last edited by Seattle Junk; 12-02-2005 at 05:31 AM.
12-02-2005, 06:33 AM #6
Your plan sounds good to me.......... You have to remember that everyone is different and what works for me might not work for you. Discussing it here at least gives us all ideas what has worked if we find that what we are doing now isn't cutting it.
12-02-2005, 10:29 AM #7
12-02-2005, 11:48 AM #8Originally Posted by EdMan2
12-02-2005, 12:03 PM #9
Bro if you're on a cycle you are shut down, nothing will stop that. The reason for using HCG during a cycle from day 1, is to keep the boys alive. It doesn't keep you from shutting down, keeping the boys alive, give your body one less thing to recover from. If you don't use HCG the first week or 2 is getting your nuts back to normal, then it'll be about getting test levels back.
I know there are few different ideas, but using HCG during a cycle at low doses came from an HRT Dr, that also help men with AAS cycles. All the others are from trial and error. 1500iu will raise estrogen levels to their maximum levels and that's one dose, can you imagine 10 doses of 1000iu or 5 of 1500iu would do. HCG has an active life of about 64 hours, so ed shot will give you a build up of the HCG and eod will too, but not the extent of ed.
2000iu can cause the testes to be desensitized to LH, sure you can add nolva to combat that, but there's no advantage to doing those high doses with nolva over using it from day one at the safer low doses. You always want to use something at doses that cause the least amount of side effects.
What you have planned might work but there are no guarantees, weather it works or not, do your PCT until your sex drive is back in full swing, don't limit your PCT to a time frame.
Do let us know how it works out for you
12-02-2005, 12:27 PM #10
12-02-2005, 02:44 PM #11
I understand, the whole idea behind HCG is for a quicker recovery, so I can see how all the different ideas can get confusing. there are people out there that will always good with what they first learned and other will go with new info that works.
The high dose protocol is old school, when we didn't know as much as we do now. Here's astudy do with 1500iu in one dose and 1500iu in 5 doses.
Posted by hhajdo at S’ology
Differential effect of single high dose and divided small dose administration of human chorionic gonadotropin on Leydig cell steroidogenic desensitization.
Smals AG, Pieters GF, Boers GH, Raemakers JM, Hermus AR, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.
This study compared the effect of a single high dose of hCG (1500 IU) with that of the same dose administered in multiple small doses (300 IU, once daily for 5 days) on Leydig cell steroidogenesis. Administration of a single high dose of hCG to seven healthy men raised the mean plasma testosterone (T) level to peak levels 2.1 +/- 0.2 (SEM) X the baseline value at 48 h. Thereafter plasma T decreased to below normal (0.7 +/- 0.1 X baseline) 7 days after the injection. The mean 17-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP) level peaked at 24 h (2.5 +/- 0.2 X baseline) and then also fell to a nadir value of 0.6 +/- 0.2 X baseline on day 7. Reflecting the early accumulation of 17-OHP over T, the 17 OHP/T ratio reached its maximum (1.6 +/- 0.1 X baseline) at 24 h at the same time when plasma estradiol [(E2) 4.4 +/- 0.6 X baseline] and the ratio E2/T (2.7 +/- 0.3 X baseline) achieved their maximal values. Administration of 1500 IU hCG in five divided doses of 300 IU daily increased the mean plasma T levels to peak value of 2.1 +/- 0.2 X baseline at 5 days and the levels remained elevated thereafter. The response of T as reflected by the area under the curve was almost twice as great as in the single dose study (2844 +/- 360 vs. 1647 +/- 214). In contrast to the single high dose experiment, mean plasma 17-OHP levels in the divided dose protocol did not peak at 24 h but only gradually increased. As the increase of T exceeded the 17-OHP increase at almost all time intervals, no accumulation of 17-OHP over T occurred as in the single dose experiment. Instead the 17-OHP/T ratio fell to a nadir value of 0.6 +/- 0.1 X baseline on day 7. The initial E2 peak was absent in the divided dose protocol and the E2/T ratio only marginally increased. Considering both experiments together a close relation was found between the hCG-induced increases in E2 and 17-OHP (r = +0.88, P less than 0.001), as well as the ratio 17 OHP/T (r = +0.64, P less than 0.02).
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