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  1. #1
    zomzom's Avatar
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    Ask experimented users for first cycle

    Hello all members, admins, mods.

    the man in the avatar is really me, i am less defined today.
    I am 22 and in january 03th i will be 23, i ve two years into the bodybuilding, i am currently bulking naturally and it really sux :S
    i ve lost 4 abs!!!!
    i weight around190lbs and my height is 5'9('10).
    I decided to use the juice because today i can not get more muscle without to get fat(without hope). My recovery is low and i feel the need to get a better recovery.
    I am heating over 3500cal almost each day.
    Objectives with the juice: Increase my lean mass decrease the bad fat of course


    I would like some advice about my first cycle in january2006.
    I have already all the stuffs at home Deca /Proviron and many AI and Serms


    I ve found that i can try vitamine B-6 (200-300mg ED) and letrozole during the cycle against the progesterone gyno.
    *- What do you think about the progesterone gynecomastia ?

    *- Do you often hear by friends using deca that they get progesterone gyno?
    If yes what do they do against that.... "Bromo=bromocryptin or Dostinex=cabergoline" are very hard to get like for the U-471, then, i will use Letro if it is the best choice.

    Finally i won' t use Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) during my cycle since i' ve learned that it can increase the gyno.

    I was thinking to do a cycle like that:.

    Week1-12 Test E 2x250mg M&Thursday
    Week1-10 Deca 2x200mg M&Th
    Week1-12 Proviron 25-50mg to keep the bloat away and increase the testosterone performance, hardness...
    Week1-12 Letro

    Would u advice me to try nolva at start of my cycle and if no gyno to use it? i ve read that people stack nolva with letro, what do you think about that?

    Test is best

    During my first cycle of course i will include some test but i think to use Test Prop instead of Enant because the Prop give a better lean gain, Prop is also more dosed per serving than Enant.

    I have spoken with people about the prop and two of them told me to shoot the Prop 2x250mg week? There is the question? Whereas Prop should be used Ed or EOD two experimented users on internet told me to inject the Prop 2x250mg

    Steroids only
    Deca/primo/proviron or Deca/winny/Proviron


    Thx to all the buddies that help me (lol)
    Last edited by zomzom; 12-07-2005 at 08:32 AM.

  2. #2
    DSM4Life's Avatar
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    never did that gear cant advise on that but as far as the vitamine B-6 goes do not take 200mg is has been shown to cause nerve damage. Stay with 100mg

  3. #3
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomzom
    Hello all members, admins, mods.

    the man in the avatar is really me, i am less defined today.
    I am 22 and in january 03th i will be 23, i ve two years into the bodybuilding, i am currently bulking naturally and it really sux :S
    i ve lost 4 abs!!!!
    i weight around190lbs and my height is 5'9('10).
    I decided to use the juice because today i can not get more muscle without to get fat(without hope). My recovery is low and i feel the need to get a better recovery.
    I am heating over 3500cal almost each day.
    Objectives with the juice: Increase my lean mass decrease the bad fat of course


    I would like some advice about my first cycle in january2006.
    I have already all the stuffs at home Deca /Proviron and many AI and Serms


    I ve found that i can try vitamine B-6 (200-300mg ED) and letrozole during the cycle and against the progesterone gyno.
    *- What do you think about the progesterone gynecomastia ?
    Without estrogen there's almost no chance for prolatin levels to rise, so letro is going to help in this area. 200mg of B6 daily will help also by keeping prolactin levels at bay as well.

    *- Do you often hear by friends using deca that they get progesterone gyno?
    If yes what do they do against that.... "Bromo=bromocryptin or Dostinex=cabergoline" are very hard to get like for the U-471, then, i will use Letro if it is the best choice.
    The Morning After Pill has too many side effects that IMO is not worth using to fight .......... so as I stated before Letro and B6 is a great way to fight prolatin. Bromo or Dostenix would be my forst choice but Letro and B6 has always worked for me.

    Finally i won' t use Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) during my cycle since i' ve learned that it can increase the gyno.
    Nolva will not increase gyno. What it does is take up in the ER so that estrogen can not bind to that area and cause gyno. But since you are using Letro there is no need for nolva because it will stop aromatization up to 98%.

    I was thinking to do a cycle like that:.

    Week1-12 Test E 2x250mg M&Thursday
    Week1-10 Deca 2x200mg M&Th
    Week1-12 Proviron 25-50mg to keep the bloat away and increase the testosterone performance, hardness...
    Week1-12 Letro
    I feel Proviron will be over kill with Letro........ but I would add Nolva at week 12 and stop the letro at that time


    Would u advice me to try nolva at start of my cycle and if no gyno to use it? i ve read that people stack nolva with letro, what do you think about that?

    Test is best

    During my first cycle of course i will include some test but i think to use Test Prop instead of Enant because the Prop give a better lean gain, Prop is also more dosed per serving than Enant.

    I have spoken with people about the prop and two of them told me to shoot the Prop 2x250mg week? There is the question? Whereas Prop should be used Ed or EOD two experimented users on internet told me to inject the Prop 2x250mg

    Steroids only
    Deca/primo/proviron or Deca/winny/Proviron


    Thx to all the buddies that help me (lol)

    IN RED

  4. #4
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    In the case of nolva increasing the chances of getting gyno from a progestinic steroid . (the deca in the cycle) Don't worry about it. The letro will reduce estrogen levels and lower PgR concentrations as well.

  5. #5
    zomzom's Avatar
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    I would add Nolva at week 12 and stop the letro at that time
    -*Can MudMan tell me why i should stop letro for nolva at week12?



    -*Do MudMan tell me that i should withdraw proviron from my cycle?

    If i finally decide to use nolva i will begin the use two weeks before the cycle....
    If i am using Letro with a suppression of 98% aromatisation, i will have almost no gains and i have to pre load the stuff for 4/9weeks before the cycle...

    Would you prefer a Deca /Test E or a Deca/Test Prop for a lean mass generator cycle.
    Is 2x250mg of test Prop will give me strong side effects?

    Again thx for all.
    Last edited by zomzom; 12-07-2005 at 08:47 AM.

  6. #6
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomzom
    -*Can MudMan tell me why i should stop letro for nolva at week12?



    -*Do MudMan tell me that i should withdraw proviron from my cycle?

    If i finally decide to use nolva i will begin the use two weeks before the cycle....
    If i am using Letro with a suppression of 98% aromatisation, i will have almost no gains and i have to pre load the stuff for 4/9weeks before the cycle...

    Would you prefer a Deca /Test E or a Deca/Test Prop for a lean mass generator cycle.
    Is 2x250mg of test Prop will give me strong side effects?

    Again thx for all.
    Because of the rebound effect letro will cause of estrogen.......

    IMO neither for a lean mass....... Enan/Tren or Enan/EQ

  7. #7
    longhorn814's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomzom
    Test is best

    During my first cycle of course i will include some test but i think to use Test Prop instead of Enant because the Prop give a better lean gain, Prop is also more dosed per serving than Enant.

    I have spoken with people about the prop and two of them told me to shoot the Prop 2x250mg week? There is the question? Whereas Prop should be used Ed or EOD two experimented users on internet told me to inject the Prop 2x250mg
    You really have to shoot prop every day or every other day at a minimum b/c of its short half life. I would suggest 75mg/ed or 150mg/eod. Test e or cyp only has to be shot twice a week.

    Also what do you have planned for PCT? I noticed you didnt mention anything about that........If your doing prop and deca , you have to wait 3 weeks after the last shot of deca to start PCT and with prop you have to wait 3 days. Thus, if you run deca for 12 weeks, you will have to run prop 18 days past the deca so your PCT times line up accordingly. If you run test e instead of prop, not only will you cut down on the number of injections, but you just have to run it one week past deca and then start PCT 14 days after last shot of test e.

  8. #8
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    if you wanna lose fat and gain LEAN mass, why are you going to use deca ?possibly you can sub EQ for your deca.just my 2 cents

  9. #9
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    agreed, its very hard to bulk and cut at the same time. Most pros dont even do that. Do one or the other, not both at the same time.

  10. #10
    zomzom's Avatar
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zomzom
    Test is best

    During my first cycle of course i will include some test but i think to use Test Prop instead of Enant because the Prop give a better lean gain, Prop is also more dosed per serving than Enant.

    I have spoken with people about the prop and two of them told me to shoot the Prop 2x250mg week? There is the question? Whereas Prop should be used Ed or EOD two experimented users on internet told me to inject the Prop 2x250mg




    You really have to shoot prop every day or every other day at a minimum b/c of its short half life. I would suggest 75mg/ed or 150mg/eod. Test e or cyp only has to be shot twice a week.

    Also what do you have planned for PCT? I noticed you didnt mention anything about that........If your doing prop and deca, you have to wait 3 weeks after the last shot of deca to start PCT and with prop you have to wait 3 days. Thus, if you run deca for 12 weeks, you will have to run prop 18 days past the deca so your PCT times line up accordingly. If you run test e instead of prop, not only will you cut down on the number of injections, but you just have to run it one week past deca and then start PCT 14 days after last shot of test e.

    My PCT look like that:


    Deca last shoot Week10 or week11
    Test E last shoot week12.

    -*Week13-14 HCG two or one shoot 1500iu, if two shoot they will be spaced every five days.
    -*Week12-14(and i will continue 5days after my last HCG shoot)Nolva
    -*Week 15-18 Clomid/(nolva?)


    Thx to all the buddies that help me

  11. #11
    zomzom's Avatar
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    agreed, its very hard to bulk and cut at the same time. Most pros dont even do that. Do one or the other, not both at the same time.

    Okay, i agree too, i will eat like crazy.

    if you wanna lose fat and gain LEAN mass, why are you going to use deca?possibly you can sub EQ for your deca.just my 2 cents

    Possible, i can had winstrol into the cycle(a friend on internet told me he does one shoot of winny each week just 1cc to stay lean,lol).
    I just want to limit the fat caused by estrogens. If i am bloated i really don t care because it will leave but i will minimize that side nevertheless.


    Thx to all buddies that help. lol j/k

  12. #12
    zomzom's Avatar
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    bump

  13. #13
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    My PCT look like that:[/COLOR]

    Deca last shoot Week10 or week11
    Test E last shoot week12.

    -*Week13-14 HCG two or one shoot 1500iu, if two shoot they will be spaced every five days.
    -*Week12-14(and i will continue 5days after my last HCG shoot)Nolva
    -*Week 15-18 Clomid/(nolva?)


    Thx to all the buddies that help me [/QUOTE]

    use HCG during the cycle once or twice a week deca is very hard on natural test levels...(i would use EQ as a replacement) i wouldnt use clomid either lately the real data has been coming out of the woodwork for this substance

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