What is the best non AS to take

**lliam1** · 05-13-2002, 11:48 AM

As I mentioned in earlier posts, I am just getting back into training after a few years of being lazy. I am 6'3" and weigh in at about 230#. I am a former athlete and recently made the decision to re-dedicate myself to getting back into shape. I have hit the wall on what my body will do since now I am 30 yrs old. So, by gathering the information on this board along with some cool members who replied to my previous posts recommending certain stacks... I am venturing into the world of AS.

I only want moderate gains since I don't compete. So, I am taking just enough d-bol to see what I want with the expectation that I will keep only about 10lbs. of that gain (which is fine). Since I am new to gear, I wanted to start off slow to see how my body reacts before I get into the correct & proper stacks which obviously include the injectables.

Everything is going good, but I wanted to know what non AS supplements could be used in conjunction with Anabolics? I want to be careful not to counter the effects/gains I'm getting from the D-Bol, but want to make sure I am getting the most out of my own body's resources. Other than a high protein diet, what could I add/take?

Thank you in advance for any advice.

**Tankass** · 05-13-2002, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by SGFuryZ
PROTEIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep. Protein, Glutamine, Creatine. Stay away from pro-hormones a waste of money there.

**samoth** · 05-13-2002, 12:32 PM

Do not take creatine in conjunction with steroids ... its simply not needed, as well as extra work for the kidneys. You will get no extra benefits from taking creatine on any cycle.

**FLEX_NuTz** · 05-13-2002, 12:37 PM

Calories. =^0 !

**beenie** · 05-13-2002, 01:41 PM

add L-carnitine glutamine and protien.

**Microbrew** · 05-13-2002, 01:46 PM

Protein , Creatine, Glutamine , I hear good things about 1-AD, a few buddies of mine swear by it. But you have to take like 6ed

**superbeast** · 05-13-2002, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by samoth
Do not take creatine in conjunction with steroids... its simply not needed, as well as extra work for the kidneys. You will get no extra benefits from taking creatine on any cycle.

I don't mean to be rude, but you better check your research again. Creatine not only helps in amino acid formulation, but it also donates a phosphorus group to ADP to make ATP, the energy your muscles use to contract. This allows for faster recovery and more energy. Not to mention, creatine sucks water into muscle cells which allows all reactions to take place more efficiently. Creatine and AS in no way contradict each other and there is no reason not to use them together.

**tyler D** · 05-13-2002, 02:27 PM

i totaly agree i take power tech, the whole time on my cycle

**samoth** · 05-13-2002, 02:35 PM

Anabolic steroids increase the amount of phosphocreatine kinase in the muscles... thus creating more energy and strength. AS also raises creatinine excreation in urine, which is something measured in most comprehensive blood tests and is a good benchmark for health. Exogeneous creatine is overkill because the anabolic steriods are basically already doing the 'job' of creatine. I have also seen several other studies of why creatine is not any benefit during cycle, but I do not recall their content specifically...

**jeffylyte** · 05-13-2002, 08:16 PM

you might also try some liver support supplements like evening primrose and of course glutamine. Especially if you ever take anything 17-alkylated.

**superbeast** · 05-14-2002, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by samoth
Anabolic steroids increase the amount of phosphocreatine kinase in the muscles... thus creating more energy and strength. AS also raises creatinine excreation in urine, which is something measured in most comprehensive blood tests and is a good benchmark for health. Exogeneous creatine is overkill because the anabolic steriods are basically already doing the 'job' of creatine. I have also seen several other studies of why creatine is not any benefit during cycle, but I do not recall their content specifically...

Sorry again, steroids in no way do the same job as creatine.

**samoth** · 05-14-2002, 09:23 AM

Feel free to tell me where exactly my error is in that quote there... everything in that quote is fact, and not very hard to look up. Dont just say its wrong, tell us why its wrong... statements mean nothing if they cannot be backed up by factual information. We dont want to spread false information on this board

**flex321** · 05-14-2002, 09:56 AM

state why there is no need then and post something to back it up bro!

**superbeast** · 05-14-2002, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by samoth
Feel free to tell me where exactly my error is in that quote there... everything in that quote is fact, and not very hard to look up. Dont just say its wrong, tell us why its wrong... statements mean nothing if they cannot be backed up by factual information. We dont want to spread false information on this board

My problem with your statement is this: Where does this creatine come from? Exogenous creatine is used because the body is incapable of producing the amounts that help in muscle growth. Steroids turn into creatine? In all my reading, I've never heard that steroids increase the amount of creatine in the muscle. Where did you get this info? "Creatinine excretion is a good benchmark for health." What exactly does this mean?

**superbeast** · 05-14-2002, 12:01 PM

If you can prove that steroids cause the body to create many times its natural production of creatine, then I may believe your statement. But I've never come across that info anywhere.

**samoth** · 05-14-2002, 01:23 PM

Flex: I did post why there was no need.
Ugg of course you want the work cited during finals week LOL... I will see what I can do. Feel free to cite your resources as well ( I love debates

)
Any other input from members here?

**samoth** · 05-14-2002, 09:59 PM

The activation of androgen receptors enhances the level of creatine phosphate and hence phosphocreatine. Try a search under medline for starters... you will see there has been research for many years from all over the world proving this.
Conclusion: Creatine supplementation while using anabolic /androgenic steroids will be of no benefit, and may cause excess stress on the kidneys due to the organism ridding itself of the excess.