roid rage the real deal

Hehe... well though some think its bullshit and only occurs with ppl who are generally labelled as 'jerks' in life, I gotta say that this shit is real :)
Only into my 3rd week of test/deca/dbol cycle and f*ck me I have become one moody angry twat. Never behaved in such a way before. I was expecting any big mood swings further on when test takes full effect but it might be my 2g frontload.
Anyway I did my leg workout today, was f*cking disappointed with it, because I didnt go as far as I wanted to. Out of bitter disappointment I trashed one of the dumbell racks (was alone in the room at the time) and walked out. Then some bloke sitting on the door started pestering me about some membership crap. I couldnt even hear what he was saying, just ripped my membership card out of his hands and just about managed to keep myself from lashing out at him. Then I got into my car and just sat for about 30 mins trying to calm down a bit so that at least I wouldnt start doing stupid things on the road.
Heh... scary shit this. Tomorrow is deadlift time -- I am sure Ill get pretty angry doing those
:mad: :shoot: :cuss:

That's intense and serious obcourse, but it's still pretty funny shit! Hey man be careful, maybe you should ease up a bit. Nahh

Please don't take this the wrong way..

I think before you say roid rage is the real deal...you should back it up bro. There are too many newbies reading this stuff....who are now going to do steriods...get pissed off and do something stupid....and blame it on the roids and make us look bad. I'm sorry...but roid rage is a myth people. If you can't control your anger...you have an anger problem.

Now keep in mind this study says nothing about the combination of different steriods...just testosterone. But still pretty strong. I'm on test/fina/dbol and I haven't experienced any rage what so ever. But I did on a deca/dbol cycle...when I believed that roid rage was as bad as the government and media made it out to be. It's easy to get mad and blame it on the roids. Again...not directed AT you....just speaking my mind. I will look for more studies on roid rage...if anyone else has any...please post them.

The effects of supraphysiological doses of testosterone on angry behavior in healthy eugonadal men--a clinical research center study.

Tricker R, Casaburi R, Storer TW, Clevenger B, Berman N, Shirazi A, Bhasin S.

Division of Endocrinology, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, California 90059, USA.

Anecdotal reports of "roid rage" and violent crimes by androgenic steroid users have brought attention to the relationship between anabolic steroid use and angry outbursts. However, testosterone effects on human aggression remain controversial. Previous studies have been criticized because of the low androgen doses, lack of placebo control or blinding, and inclusion of competitive athletes and those with preexisting psychopathology. To overcome these pitfalls, we used a double-blind, placebo-controlled design, excluded competitive athletes and those with psychiatric disorders, and used 600 mg testosterone enanthate (TE)/week. Forty-three eugonadal men, 19-40 yr, were randomized to 1 of 4 groups: Group I, placebo, no exercise; Group II, TE, no exercise; Group III, placebo, exercise; Group IV, TE plus exercise. Exercise consisted of thrice weekly strength training sessions. The Multi-Dimensional Anger Inventory (MAI), which includes 5 different dimensions of anger (inward anger, outward anger, anger arousal, hostile outlook, and anger eliciting situations), and a Mood Inventory (MI), which includes items related to mood and behavior, were administered to subjects before, during, and after the 10 week intervention. The subject's significant other (spouse, live-in partner, or parent) also answered the same questions about the subject's mood and behavior (Observer Mood Inventory, OMI). No differences were observed between exercising and nonexercising and between placebo and TE treated subjects for any of the 5 subdomains of MAI. Overall there were no significant changes in MI or OMI during the treatment period in any group. Conclusion: Supraphysiological doses of testosterone, when administered to normal men in a controlled setting, do not increase angry behavior. These data do not exclude the possibility that still higher doses of multiple steroids might provoke angry behavior in men with preexisting psychopathology.

I get this real bad when I am on fina. You just have to make a conscious effort to control it bro. This may mean taking a step back and take a deep breath while thinking about the situation. Since I learned to control it, I actually enjoy the "I'm a badass and nobody fucks with me" attitude. You can actually use it to your advatage. Also, if you get pissed at the gym then use the aggression on the next set. That is what I do and it helps.

i think its total crap also. im much happier when on than off. i lift better, eat better, and screw better. its when im off that i get dissapointed in my workouts and my routine in general.
i guess mine is LACK OF ROIDS RAGE.

btw-nice post dizzy.
peace bb79

I have said the same thing dizzy---in a million other posts...thanks for taking care of this one! I totally agree.
You gotta grow up, before you can grow big!!!!
-Cy

What is roid rage?
Please bring a scientific studies to prove it.
I remember that when I was in High School and I used a research project to learn more about juice, I was told that roids blind receptors in the brain responsible for aggresiveness. BS or Not I dunno.


Personally I believe that RR is quite controlable in any term. Yes you will be more aggressive and maybe more violent but you can easilly control it.
BUTTTTTT the big but is just depending on what situation. I remember that during one cycle, I was informed that my ex gf was fucking her whole province I BUSTED and roid didnt help either.

I must agree on Ironcy and BB79,

cheers

Here you go:

Ok, I realize my opinion is not shared by many. But what if you are the 2 to 10 % that has a problem with steriods. If its you then its 100 %.

Here is a study that is a good read. I put the sources at the end if wish to check the story out.

"The study conducted by Dr. Pope and his colleagues was the most recent and extensive, recruiting 50 men between the ages of 20 and 50. For the first 6 weeks of the study, the investigators gave half of the volunteers weekly injections of the steroid testosterone cypionate in gradually increasing doses. For the next 6 weeks, the men were given nothing, then for the subsequent 6-week period, they were given injections of a placebo, followed by another 6 weeks of no injections. The other half of the men were treated the same, except they received 6 weeks of placebo injections before receiving 6 weeks of steroid injections. Each time the men came in for their weekly injection, the researchers administered psychological tests to them. In addition, the men kept daily diaries of their psychological symptoms.

Of the 50 men who received all their steroid injections, 42 had only minimal psychiatric reactions to the drugs. However, two men developed prominent manic symptoms, and another six developed moderate symptoms.



"Why a few men develop manic reactions to steroids while most do not remains a mystery, Dr. Pope says. Those who reacted with manic symptoms were not more likely to have taken steroids before, to have been a weightlifter, or to have a family history of psychiatric disorder. They also did not differ in various physiological measures, such as the blood level of testosterone following the steroid injections."


"I think that the evidence from this and previous studies indicates that, for unknown reasons, somewhere between 2 and 10 percent of men develop manic behavior and other neuropsychiatric complications from high doses of steroids," says Dr. Jag Khalsa of NIDA's Center on AIDS and Other Medical Consequences of Drug Abuse. "These studies were done with 500 and 600 mg per week of steroids, while in actual practice, steroid abusers often take as much as 1,000 or 1,500 mg per week. With these higher doses, the percentage developing manic symptoms is likely to be higher."

Sources
Pope, H.G., Jr.; Kouri, E.M.; and Hudson, J.I. Effects of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on mood and aggression in normal men: A randomized controlled trial. Archives of General Psychiatry 57(2):133-140, 2000.

Pope, H.G., Jr.; Phillips, K.A.; and Olivardia, R. The Adonis Complex: The Secret Crisis of Male Body Obsession. New York: The Free Press. 2000.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dizzy
Please don't take this the wrong way..

I'm sorry...but roid rage is a myth people. If you can't control your anger...you have an anger problem

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Sorry, but disagree!

I am a pretty gentle, easy going guy. I never got into fights, in fact, when the shit hit the fan, I was the guy in the middle breaking up the fights and playing Henry Kissinger...

I can confidently say I don't have an anger problem, in fact, I am far better than most people at managing my anger.

But on my first cycle, I found myself getting highly irritated at the smallest of things. I didn't act out (I have enough self-control to contain the potential outbursts) , but the feeling of rage was VERY REAL.

Don't tell me it's a myth. I have experience it--as has Anabolik and other guys on this board.

Now I have never had the experience of meeting you, Dizzy--maybe you are the myth!

Sorry guys I still disagree. It is not total BS. Wether it is physical or mental I don't know for sure. I don't get aggressive on Test anymore just Fina, so this leads me to think it is mental not physical. What I do know is that in my experience it does exist. It is not an uncontrollable urge to destroy things like the word rage would suggest, just a small increase in aggressive behavior. It can be easily controlled and yes IronCy I agree that you do have to grow up before you can grow big. Just ask Juice Junkie, BigJW, and Tapout, back when I started juicing I became 10X more aggressive. People are always joking about how Tapout has created a monster, but all he did was introduce me to Juice. I can easily understand why people who do not experience this side effect believe RR to be a myth. If I didn't experience it myself then I would probably say the same thing. However I respect all of your opinions, but just because it has not happened in your personal experience doesn't mean that it does not exist in others.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ajax
Don't tell me it's a myth. I have experience it--as has Anabolik and other guys on this board.

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I said I experienced it as well. It was an excuse to act like an ass. IT'S THE ROIDS. Ha. You know what comes next...your great at saying it..........prove it. I wanna see the studies that help prove the theory that steriods causes rage in men.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ajax
Now I have never had the experience of meeting you, Dizzy--maybe you are the myth!

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:susp:

I mean this in the nicest way possible, for the ones of you that have experienced "RR", who's to say you wouldn't have snapped even if you weren't on the Juice

Here is one I found. Some of the examples below are pretty extreme and I believe them to be cases where the steroid user was unable to execute the simple task of control themselves and using common sense. I don't think that these things are very likely to happen, I'm just showing that it has.


All in the mind?
Testosterone -- the male hormone -- has gotten a bad rap lately. Name a social ill related to violence -- war, wife-beating, child abuse -- and it's likely been blamed on testosterone and the many closely related compounds.

Medicine's standard answer to the question of whether steroid doping has psychological effects on athletes has been "no," says psychiatrist Harrison Pope of McLean Hospital in Massachusetts. But he says that's a misconception resulting from the fact that medical experimenters cannot ethically give large doses of steroids.

In the lab, testosterone doses would be limited to 300 milligrams per week. Real athletes, Pope notes, take more than 1,000 milligrams, leading to "a whole different ballgame" where psychological symptoms become "common, and can be very severe."

Pope, who sometimes serves as an expert witness in court, says he's been "involved in a dozen murder cases where someone went on steroids and killed somebody without a history of violence or crime beforehand." In one case, a 16-year-old boy was charged with killing his 14-year-old girlfriend. Pope says, "We have no evidence of any criminal or violent activity before he started taking steroids. At that point, he had a series of run-ins with the police, which culminated in the murder. He was convicted and sent up for life."

As the example shows, wives and girlfriends are often the victims of men who are cranked up on steroids. In a study of 88 athletes who used steroids, Pope found 23 percent of current users reporting "major mood disturbances" including mania and major depression. Steroid users also reported aggressive or violent incidents.

...one user, using his fists and a metal bar, seriously damaged three cars, all with their drivers cowering inside, because he had become annoyed by a traffic delay. Another was arrested for causing $1,000 of property damage during a fit of anger at a sporting event; another was arrested for assaulting a motorist; another rammed his head through a wooden door.... Several users reported that they were expelled from their homes by parents, wives, or girlfriends because they became intolerably aggressive.


Resources
Paper
Anabolic-Androgen Steroids: Current Issues. Charles Yesalis and MS Bark, Sports Medicine, May, 1995, pp. 326-40.
Drugs and Sport. Research Findings and Limitations, PM Clarks and HS Thompson, Sports Medicine, 366-84, Dec. 1997.

Psychiatric and Medical Effects of Anabolic-Androgen Steroid Use, Harrison Pope, Jr., and David Katz, Archives of General Psychiatry, May, 1994, pp. 375-82.

The Real Scandal, Sharon Begley et al, Newsweek, Feb. 15, 1999, pp. 48 ff.

The Steroids Game, Charles Yesalis and Virginia S. Cowart, Champaign, IL, Human Kinetics, 1998.

Electronic
The U.S. Olympic Committee says "Doping violates the ethics of both sport and medical science and is prohibited."

The Tour de France is wired.

Ditto the U.S. Cycling team.

I must admit if I was a lawyer, and my client was charged with murder....and was using steriods????? I would milk that roid hype and hooplah too.

Thanks KingSamson but these are simple observations...not studies. Not only that but observations made by people who don't use steriods.

"Cranked up on steriods". "User" SPOOKY LANGUAGE!!! Sorry for the George Carlin reference.

If your capable of comitting these acts...your gonna do it whether your on cycle or not. And yes...if you have an anger problem steriods are not the best choice for you. Learn to control yourself first.

Well, personally I dont really care what this sudden change in attitude should be called, 'roid rage', 'stupidity' or whatever. Neither am I saying I proved or even tried to prove that administration of AAS makes a person more violent or agressive.
I simply described what I felt and gave it a name that I thought was most appropriate.
As far as scientific evidence goes, do not forget that science is pure observation just like my observing my own experience. The only difference being is that science tends to be more rigorous in observations and and tends to observe more than one subject. Now since most of the variables in my lifestyle have been kept about the same during the cycle, with the excpetion of the addition of AAS, its quite reasonable for a layman like me to conclude that a sudden mood change is one of the effects of AAS. Well actually Im taking more vitamin C atm, it might be that.
But generally, I have to observe AAS do seem to make you feel better when nothing is bugging you. Personally, I noticed to feel far more confident about things, perhaps slightly arrogant. Now this could all well be a psychological effect of self-induction or placebo but the simulus for this effect almost certainly lies with the juice.

Some cats just need to admit that they are assholes on & off roids....but dont use it as a scapegoat. Gotta grow up before you can grow BIG!
-Cy

here is a thought

i feel roid rage is an excuse to be an asshole--you must learn to control your temper

do i believe in roid rage --- sort of
for 1 juice in some people raises your blood pressure which can make you feel more aggitated an have a shorter fuse
for 2 roids are hormones and hormones have a lot of control on the body---look at women(no disrespect to you ladies) at certain times of the month when they get aggitated and emotional right before their periods---pms---this is caused by an over abundance of hormones freraking out their bodies
they can actually kill you and get away with it---your honor he would not wash the dishes like i told him to do so i had to kill him i was about to start my peroid ---the judge says oh ok i understand your free to go(ok maybe not that bad but you get the point)

i think juice intensifies the personality so if your an asshole you are a bigger one on juice---and the hormones and blood pressure helps to have a shorter fuse which causes you to get pissed quicker ---hence roid rage

i do feel there is something there--- what i dont know---but it can affect some people

The longer this debate goes, the more it looks like we are debating apples & oranges...

I think it boils down to what we define "Roid Rage" as. I define it as a change in my emotional condition when I take steroids. Maybe others here are defining it as actual physical behavior that results from that emotional change.

I would again, hold firmly to the assertion that testosterone does affect your emotional temperament. Do I have a study? No. Why? I am too lazy to go out and research it and I don’t care that much. I see what it does and that's proof enough for me.

As to actions arising from that emotional change--well, that's a different story. I guess that depends on a lot of individual factors. I can control it, but others may have a harder time due to various physical/mental issues individual to them alone.

Just because SOME or even MOST people don't experience "Roid Rage" doesn't mean that it's not real. Lung cancer caused by smoking appears in <25% (don’t quote me on that number, I pulled it out of thin air) of smokers, but does that mean that cancer caused by smoking is not real? Of course not!

Quote:

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There are too many newbie reading this stuff.... who are now going to do steroids...get pissed off and do something stupid....and blame it on the roids and make us look bad. I'm sorry...but roid rage is a myth people. If you can't control your anger...you have an anger problem.

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Well, the good news is, because of intelligent debates like this, newbies will know that “Roid Rage” is a potential problem, it is controllable and maybe have a better grasp on dealing with it.

Quote:

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If your capable of committing these acts...your gonna do it whether your on cycle or not. And yes...if you have an anger problem steroids are not the best choice for you. Learn to control yourself first.

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Well put.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ajax
I would again, hold firmly to the assertion that testosterone does affect your emotional temperament. Do I have a study? No. Why? I am too lazy to go out and research it and I don’t care that much. I see what it does and that's proof enough for me.

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Ajax...broham. You said yourself....you would rather take scientific study over what some guy on board says is true or not. I believe it was the bridge thread?

If you don't care that much then why go to the trouble. And if your too lazy then why waste time debating.

I respect the fact that you experience rage on cycle. Your a smart feller and I would take into consideration that you believe it is real. But by fizzing out and saying...."I'm too lazy and just don't care." "I know it's true just because." Isn't helping your side of the argument.

So like you have said over and over....give me some proof my brother. Or stop wasting my time.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ajax
Just because SOME or even MOST people don't experience "Roid Rage" doesn't mean that it's not real. Lung cancer caused by smoking appears in <25% (don’t quote me on that number, I pulled it out of thin air) of smokers, but does that mean that cancer caused by smoking is not real? Of course not!

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Agreed 100%

I do and i dont believe in roid rage i mean when im on juice i do find little things tend to piss me off easer but when im not on it im more layed back, i gotta pretty bad temper naturally when i was young and now ive learn to control that temper from all the trouble i got into when i was young cause it is not worth the money, and the respect u lose when u "RAGE" beleive me i know from experience

I know when I'm on I'm more aggressive at my job (sales) thus making me more successful. I can speak to people and tell them what I'm REALLY thinking without giving a damn, I get irritated at dumb shit where I would let it slide normally. Look, when you play with hormones, your playing with your body chemistry and something will be off. Look at your wives & girlfriends every month when they get PMS..why...cause their hormones are all fucked up. Any of you guys with kids, how was your wife when she was pregnant huh? Crying one minute and telling you to piss off another right? HORMONES. Teenage boys wanting to challenge the world & prove their manhood. HORMONES. Older men who were once young tough guys who could care less, yea they grew up, but something is missing...hormone levels aren't as high as they once were. I don't need a study to tell me, look around at the world everyday. Men are men because of testosterone...wars, competition sports, being more dominant. Sorry guys but the emotional effects of playing with your endocrine system are very real, VERY CONTROLLABLE, but very real. I might want to lash out at someone more when they piss me off, not I would, but I want to. It's called self control, but it's real.. my .02:hello:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Anabolik
Anyway I did my leg workout today, was f*cking disappointed with it, because I didnt go as far as I wanted to. Out of bitter disappointment I trashed one of the dumbell racks (was alone in the room at the time) and walked out. Then some bloke sitting on the door started pestering me about some membership crap. I couldnt even hear what he was saying, just ripped my membership card out of his hands and just about managed to keep myself from lashing out at him. Then I got into my car and just sat for about 30 mins trying to calm down a bit so that at least I wouldnt start doing stupid things on the road.

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Interesting . . . Yesterday I read this thread and thought it was pretty funny. Today, after doing a hit of cyp, I read it again, and I want to kill each and every one of you.

(Relax. The preceding paragraph is a joke. Put down the phone - there's no need for the emergency psych team. Now I'll get serious...)

I think we need to acknowledge a simple truth here: If you feel that anabolic steroids make your temper whacked out, there is a chance that they do. Some studies support the notion of roid rage, and others indicate that it's a myth. But look at the corollary: If you are doing a cycle and find that your temper is worse than it is at otehr times, then plain and simple, you shouldn't be doing roids.

I refer you to the study cited by Androplex, "Of the 50 men who received all their steroid injections, 42 had only minimal psychiatric reactions to the drugs. However, two men developed prominent manic symptoms, and another six developed moderate symptoms."

Were the two subjects who developed manic symptoms predisposed to those symptoms prior to the study? Possibly. But even if steroids did not cause their manic tendencies, they catalyzed the active manifestation of the symptoms.

Remember the old expression that if you give a drunk coffee, you'll end up with a wide awake drunk? There is also an expression to the effect that if you give an asshole steroids, he will simply become a bigger asshole. The moral? Assholes shouldn't take steroids.

My take is that someone who is so discouraged by not working out as effectively as desired that he "trashes" a weight rack has deeper psychological problems. That's not intended to be an insult, but it is something that should be addressed professionally, since it presents a potential danger to self and others. (Yes, that's a clinical term, but if the shoe fits...) Certainly, frontloading two grams of test could be a contributing factor, but this incident occurred three weeks into the cycle. And having a ripped, bulked body is not worth that kind of risk.

We need to accept the notion that some people should not do anabolic steroids, whether it's because of an underlying medical or psychological reason, and that there is no disgrace if you happen to be one of the people who should not do them. Moreover, the phrase "listen to your body" has as much to do with psychological or temperment reactions as it does with any other physical symptoms.

There is a big picture here that has not been addressed. If you act out violently, whether towards person or property, the big picture has to include questions like, what kind of day were you having before the eruption? Was the eruption really based on the frustration of a disappointing workout routine, or was there an underlying reason or event that was festering earlier and bound to erupt whether or not you pushed 200 pounds instead of 210 pounds? The cycle could have been the catalyst, but there may have been another underlying cause.

One way or the other, if AS were a contributing factor at all, it's time to stop doing AS and to get some counseling. No one is going to hate you for it.

P.S. on Editing: If you are embarrassed by the notion of pursuing counseling, at the very least take a course or pick up and read a book on anger management. It may provide you with some techniques to prevent this from happening again. The first step is to recognize your anger, and you've now had a firsthand experience at that. Use that knowledge to prevent future incidents. And stop the roids.

I would like to add my .02 here.

I am usually a real quiet kind of guy, much like Ajax, however, in my murky past I have spent a fair number of years working as a bouncer (Or doorman if you prefer) and during that time I have become very aggressive at times.

Whenever I have been aggressive like this it has always been controlled aggression, and I thank some early martial arts training for that control.

However, having done X number of cycles in the last 10 yrs or so I can say that at times I have FELT that aggression building in me, for no real reason. Im not normally like that, but I HAVE been, so I know whats happening when it happens.

I have felt myself being irritable, snappy, aggressive etc, and had to hold it together to prevent an outburst. I have no doubt at all that this was caused by the AS I was using at the time.

Since we are all different, and we all react in different ways to AS it is no wonder that some people suffer from this and some dont

I dont think it can be nailed down to a particular AS, or even a particular dose. Some people get deca dick and some dont. Some people get gyno and some dont. Some people get rage and some dont.

Rather than argue about evidence and scientific proof of this thing we should make sure that we understand the possibility that someone can suffer from rage and be prepared to offer support to them if they do.

As for proof! Think about what we are doing here - We are pumping hormones into ourselves!! its no wonder some people suffer from some strange mood swings! Think what your girl or wife can been like at that time of the month!! Hormones are heavy duty gear!!

Think of all the people who complain of mood swings and emotion when they use their clomid! Once again we are playing with the hormonal balance in our bodies! Can we wonder that this has an effect on some people?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dizzy
If you don't care that much then why go to the trouble. And if your too lazy then why waste time debating.[/B]

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I think that's taken a little out of context...

Somebody said "show me a study" and what I meant to communicate was "If you want to see a study--you go search. I am satisfied of the reality form my personal experience." I guess I just put my foot in my mouth there and admitted to being a lazy SOB!

Yeah, I did mention in another topic that I would rather see a study than take "some guys" word for it. (Damn I hate it when people use what I say against me! Damn clever of you to pick up on that Diz!)

However, when I have had the experience first hand, it doesn't take a Harvard PhD to tell me it's real. There is a big credibility difference between an untrusted second/third party and personal experience; I will take a scientific study over a second/third party opionion, but if a scientist proves to me that it is physically impossible that bumblebees could fly--and I have seen them fly, then I have to take my experience as more credible proof.

After re-reading that I realize I have WAY too much time on my hands!

I thought it was bull until I was about 8 weeks away from my first show. I am 2 weeks away now on Fina, Winny, Halo cycle and very few cals and carbs and most everything pisses me off. I think the food issue is the worst but seems like when I went from 6 to 8 halo a day my mood sufferred.:mad: