Friggin Acne!

**derelict** · 12-13-2005, 08:47 PM

Hey guys, Im Two weeks out of PCT from my first Cycle which was 4 weeks of dbol , 14 weeks of test e @500mgs wk, and 4 weeks of test prop at 500mgs wk.

my concern is the acnew build up on my back and shoulders. I know you guys have heard many complaints about this but I still cant find anything that works!

I go tanning 2-3 times a week. which helps dry me up, but acne is still visible.

I shower and soap the shite outa my back which again only drys me up.

any suggestions would be a huge help!

thanks again!

**devil1** · 12-13-2005, 08:49 PM

use dish soap, works wanders. had the same problem and its clearing up quick

**derelict** · 12-13-2005, 08:51 PM

just in the shower? like with a brush or whaaaaat?

**devil1** · 12-13-2005, 08:56 PM

i put it on a rag and scrub the $hit out of myself before i get in the shower. let it set for a sec then take a shower with my reg soap.

**topvega** · 12-13-2005, 08:56 PM

This is from another board... maybe it will help.......

---FINALLY BEATING ACNE---

Written By: Crankin'steiN (AKA Crank)
Owner @ Hardcorecanadians.com
MOD @ Worldclassbodybuilding.com
MOD @ Fitnessgeared.com

I am writing this article in the hopes of informing and helping some people in the bodybuilding community who are having problems with acne. As everyone knows, acne is a very common side effect from the usage of steroids . This can be a very hard battle and can be very stressful emotionally.... I know guys with great physiques who refuse to take their shirt off at the beach because of acne. Now obviously if you have worked hard for your physique, it would be nice to show it off sometimes without worrying about acne.

I will start from the beginning.... Everyone knows that while we are going through pubertity we will most likely get some acne. The severity of this will vary person to person, but most will get some. Why is this important you may be asking?? Well, for guys that get their acne later in their teens (say 17 or 18), it may last until their early 20's. This is an important thing to take note of, because for those guys it is crutial that they deal with the acne before ever taking any steroids. I have seen many cases where a young person has started steroids before taking care of the acne problem and it becomes much much worse.... So if you have acne naturally, you need to take care of it before using steroids!

Now on to everyone else who develops acne from steroids. There is a few things to keep in mind about your steroid usage and cycling that may help you contain your acne. The first thing is that the having numerous high androgenic steroids, or high dose androgenic steroids in your cycle will be very hard on your acne situation. Highly androgenic steroids are well known for being a big cause of the acne people get while on cycle. So try to minimize the number of different highly androgenic compounds, or limit the dosages... The second thing is that keeping your hormone levels as steady as humanly possible will help greatly in reducing your acne. You can do this by splitting dosages into numerous shots through out the week I.E. If my dosage of test for the week is 500, I can split that into 2 equal shots of 250mg twice per week. Mon, and fri would be fine.

Now on to ways to treat the acne once it has started to show itself....

First I will go over the simple things you can do daily to try and reduce your breakouts:

- Shower 2 times a day, and immediately after sweating (after your workout) if possible
- If a shirt your wearing gets sweaty, change it as soon as possible
- Wash with a very gentle clenser, I recommend Cetaphil!
- Use a shower puff for scrubbing
- Drink plenty of water
- Tan regularly
- Do not use harsh soaps, or soaps that are scented.

Second is over the counter (OTC) remedies, everyone will respond to these differently... There is no way to tell if it will work for you unless you try it, so generally I recommend that people try the OTC remedies before moving on to the prescription stuff...

- High intake of B5 (pantothenic acid) daily. This is a remedy that is really hit or miss with people. I have talked to many people about it, and it really has mixed reviews. You must take between 3-5 grams of B5 per day spread out as evenly as possible through out the day. The capsule are usually 500mg per cap. So you would have to take 6-10 capsules a day. If this remedy works, it should slow down oil production and you should notice your skin is not so oily.
- OTC acne creams. You can purchase acne creams at any pharmacy and there will be one of two active ingredients in it. Salicylic acid, or Benzoyl Peroxide. Depending on the severity of the persons acne, these creams may work very well at fighting outbreaks and getting rid of acne that is currently there. Put a little bit of this cream on trouble spots every night before bed. This cream will stain sheets and pillow cases so be aware of that.....

Third is prescription remedies, this should only be taken to this level if the acne does not respond to the other OTC treatments. A doctor should be involved in the prescribing and obtaining of these prescriptions. I would never recommend someone take a drug without consulting their doctor first!

- Anti-biotics. There is many different anti-biotics that can be prescribed to help rid someone of their acne. Tetracycline is a common one which has worked well for many. It should be known that this will make the user sensitive to light and tanning should be out of the question. Using anti-biotics for acne usually means taking them for 3 months or more at a time. Anti-biotics are also noted to have an anti-anabolic effect, so although taking steroids while using this drug will not have adverse side effects, the effects of your cycle may not be as good as they should have....
- Topical creams. There is also many different kinds of acne creams. Retin-A is one of them and usually works very well for most people. It helps clear the area, and fade old scars. It is also light sensitive and tanning should not be considered while using it...Clindoxyl is also a topical gel and works VERY well in my opinion. Neo-Medrol is the name of another drug that can be used. It is used for shoulder and back acne, and tends to dry out the area pretty bad. It does work fairly quickly and also helps to fade old scars. There is several other topicals to consider, but I won't list them. The main thing to remember is that there is more then one choice, so if one doesn't work for you, then you can try something else. Some of these creams work faster then others, for instance retin-a can take a month or two to start working, but the other two I mentioned seem to work fairly quickly. What might be of interest to bodybuilders about all these topical creams is that you can use steroids while on them without adverse side effects.
- Accutane. This should be the absolute last resort.... No not skip everything else and go right to this because it will work. The reason being, it is very harsh on your body and your
liver in particular. You can't drink while on it, you can't use steroids while on it, and you must use it for at least 3 months, sometimes longer for it to clear up the acne. The good news is, that many users of this have reported that the acne was gone for good. It never came back even when they used steroids again.

* It is important to remember that even though I mentioned some remedies that can be used while on a steroid cycle, you should keep in mind that if you were not on steroids during
your treatment, the success rate and speed of success would be quicker. Also, though several treatments can be combined at once (i.e. OTC products and anti-biotics), we must keep in mind that if we over do it the we may actually worsen the acne. In many cases that is exactly the problem. The person is over doing it trying to get rid of their acne, and they are worsening the situation!

Nobody likes acne, but as bodybuilders a lot of the time we have to deal with it. But hopefully with this article you will be able to take some of that information and start helping
your acne sitution today! Then you can get out there, and take your shirt off! Se ya at the beach.
__________________
OWNER @ HARDCORECANADIANS.COM

MOD @ Worldclassbodybuilding.com
MOD @ Fitnessgeared.com
VET @ MANY

**devil1** · 12-13-2005, 08:56 PM

and yes i keep a bottle in the shower

**Sauced** · 12-14-2005, 09:59 AM

I read where somebody said 1cc a week of test during PCT and after kept them acne free. I had bad acne from Tren for 4 months and tried just about except accutane. I wish I would have tried the test. Also, don't tan if you have acne.. It will cause discoloration of the skin. Stay out of the bacteria infested tanning beds.

**kloter1** · 12-14-2005, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by devil1

use dish soap, works wanders. had the same problem and its clearing up quick

ditto i heard that works very well. if not look into accutane.

SVTMuscle* · 12-14-2005, 10:43 AM

Here is a good article to help you out

Fighting Acne with Shampoo?
by Anthony Roberts

from the latest issue at http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/

One of the most notorious side effects experienced with the use of Anabolic /Androgenic Steroids is the development of Acne. This is, for the more hardcore users, not too big of a deal. Granted, if you are three hundred pounds ripped, are balding with a permanent red face from high blood pressure, and develop a bunch of zits suddenly, that last part is probably the least of your concerns. Large oil filled zits just aren’t a pressing concern to the next Mr. Olympia. However, for most of us, and especially first time steroid users or females, zits are usually something we want to avoid. Acne is the most media-popularized side effect of Anabolic Steroid use , and (next to weight gain) the most outwardly recognizable. Females especially, want to avoid this for aesthetic reasons, and it’s actually through interaction with one of the female moderators on a bodybuilding message board that I was most recently reminded of this point. She had been experiencing pretty bad acne from Anavar use, but she couldn’t find a suitable answer for how to get rid of it. The most typical answer to the question was “use Retin-A,” which was spouted by nearly everyone she spoke to. It is unfortunate that Retin-A, for many reasons, is a very poor choice for her purposes (one reason being it doesn’t address the cause of the acne appropriately, and it is also a prescription medication). In this particular case, I told her to take some Nizoral (Ketoconazole) Shampoo and rub it on her back and face as a body wash. Huh? What? Shampoo on your face and back? Shampoo is for your hair! Yeah, well that’s what everyone thought. Until now. Okay, I know: shampoo on your face is weird. But, I wouldn’t be writing for Mind and Muscle if I wasn’t three things:
a.) Weird (in the public’s eye)
b.) Creative
c.) Weird
Now, let’s talk about DHT and how it causes acne. We will then discuss why using Nizoral shampoo would be good for getting rid of acne. Development of AAS-related acne and the extent to which it is experienced can be due to a number of varying factors, with the steroids and dosages used being primary factors. It has been established that the receptors of the sebaceous glands have a particularly high affinity to Dihydrotestosterone (1)(2)(3). Anecdotally, it would also seem that DHT-derivations (Winstrol , etc…) cause more acne than others (Testosterone or 19-Nor derived steroids). Thus, we can also safely assume that steroids, which are affected by the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme and turned into DHT in the body, will also be highly probable to cause acne. Increased sebaceous gland activity causes oily skin, and this, in combination with bacteria and dead skin caused by normal wear and tear, then causes pores to become clogged more quickly than the body can deal with them (or than you can exfoliate or unclog them). This causes visible acne and generally terrible looking skin.
So DHT is a primary culprit in all those nasty zits, right? Well, stay with me here, because the next part may get slightly complicated. Nizoral shampoo (the chemical in it is Ketoconazole) is actually a topical anti-androgen. Remember, the catalyst for acne is initially DHT (an androgen) and the sebaceous activity it causes. When used topically, in shampoo form, this particular compound’s effects are limited to the skin/scalp and are not systemic (affecting the whole body) unless you take it orally (drink the shampoo). Ketoconazole’s pharmacokinetics have been studied with oral ingestion (they make a pill, you don’t drink the shampoo of course), and it has been determined that even orally, it is effective against acne, because oral ketoconazole has three delivery routes to the skin (4):

1. Passive uptake by keratinocytes in the basal layer

2. Excretion through the sweat glands

3. (The important one) A massive excretion through the sebaceous glands

In that same study, sebum levels compared with the plasma levels are very high, even with oral ingestion (4), which prompted researchers to simply create a shampoo from the base chemical (Ketoconazole) to prevent androgenic alopecia (balding) caused by DHT. Unfortunately, oral ingestion of an anti-androgen will cause an anti-anabolic effect as well. However, there is almost no effective plasma level to cause an anti-androgenic effect in your body when you topically apply it (4). So this should keep anyone from needlessly worrying about the possibility of an anti-anabolic effect to be had from topically applying Nizoral (even though it’s technically an anti-androgen).

Lets back up a bit and let me give you a little background on how I stumbled on all of this roughly 8 years ago.

I figured out that Nizoral would prevent acne when I had some acne on my forehead during my first cycle. I had been usingNizoralto prevent hair loss, and I always got some shampoo on the top of my forehead when I washed my hair. I soon noticed that the area the shampoo came into contact with was free of acne. So, long story short, I started using it as a topical acne treatment and my steroid-induced acne cleared right up. I tried it on my back acne, and it went away. My girlfriend at the time had some acne, and it cleared that up too. A few years ago, I actually looked for validation on my theory, and found it. The study I first found (4) examined the pill form, but the shampoo is the same active ingredient, and won't have a noticeable systemic effect, but rather will have a localized one wherever you apply it.

Interestingly, about the same year that I had discovered the use of a topical anti-androgen for use in preventing DHT-caused acne (steroid related in my case) scientists completed a study basically saying the same thing. Although I had discovered this use for topical anti-androgens in my shower, and they discovered it in a lab, it’s basically the same idea.

The study I found from that year examining a topical anti-androgen and its effects on the sebaceous glands was very interesting. When a topical anti-androgen was used on rodents, the scientists noted that sebaceous glandular and ductal regression was quite profound. This strongly suggests that a topical anti-androgen could effectively counteract endogenous androgens resulting in a suppression of growth of the sebaceous glands while leaving serum concentrations of both testosterone and dihydrotestosterone intact and not reduced (5). This means, for all intents and purposes, that Nizoral’s anti-androgenic effect on your skin will prevent acne, without it having a systemic effect on your body. In simplest terms, it will leave 100% of the muscle building effects imparted by the steroids you are taking totally unaffected.

Shampoo. It’s not just for hair anymore.

References

1. Am J Clin Dermatol. 2002;3(8):571-8.

2. Clin Dermatol. 2004 Sep-Oct;22(5):419-28.

3. Pol Merkuriusz Lek. 2004 May;16(95):490-2.

4. Int J Tissue React. 1988;10(2):111-3

5. Skin Pharmacol. 1997;10(5-6):288-97.

**Jack Rabbit Slim** · 12-14-2005, 10:43 AM

When I noticed my skin getting oily and the oxy and tanny wasn't doing much, My Doc prescribed me a mild antibiotic untill I could get into a dematologist. That antibiotic worked great my skin has been very clear, not even one spot anywhere. I don't even have to tan which is a plus, I don't want my skin to look like leather when I get older due to tanning all the time.

***Giantz11*** · 12-14-2005, 11:37 AM

Acne.org

Good program on there as well.

**Bulkcut** · 12-14-2005, 02:24 PM

i used accutane before but that shit got tons of sides to it... lower back pain, super ****ing dry lips
but it worked; should be the last resort

**vze4fhpv** · 12-14-2005, 02:38 PM

Try chlorine, in a pool or hot tub. Don't tan if you have it, will cause you to scar. Most antibiotics don't want you in the sun so that's out anyway. Wash with a luffa after getting sweaty and use otc creams.

**Sharky72** · 12-14-2005, 04:14 PM

You could do what i do.. Tell your girl to pop em then lick em just to show you how much she really loves you

LOL

**Anabolic CEO** · 12-14-2005, 04:18 PM

Avodart will reduce the acne as well

**moranitotongano** · 12-14-2005, 05:33 PM

It's definately different for everyone, in my case my skin is too dry to shower every day and dish soap just ain't happening for me but cetaphil works especially since my skin is so sensitive.

**arnold_of_malta** · 12-14-2005, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by SVTMuscle

Here is a good article to help you out

from where can i buy this anti dht shampoo can oyu give me a link to order it online please!!!!!!!

**puremass** · 12-14-2005, 06:47 PM

i had bad acne from test. went to dermatologist and got all sorts of expensive creams doxycyline or whatever its called and nothing seemd to work. it was to the point of assistic acne big f%$#ing boil like zitss lol.. what i found to work was keep it as clean as possible and most important watch what u eat.i found that if i ate pizza my skin would feel oily the next day and thenwould start to break out. 2 days of shit food in a row forget about it my shoulders were huge frome bright red lumps filled with an oily puss. so went on a diet that i should of been on the whole time.. no greese back cleard up great. hope evything helps.. if worse comes to worse try accutane heard it works wonders but horrible on the liver...

**Jay J** · 12-14-2005, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by arnold_of_malta

from where can i buy this anti dht shampoo can oyu give me a link to order it online please!!!!!!!

I got mine at Walmart. Just ask for the Nizoral shampoo. This combined with tanning has helped some. The best for drying them up is Gold Bond Medicated Baby Powder. But I have yet to find anything that keeps them from popping up only things that help dry them up. Hope this helps.

**arnold_of_malta** · 12-14-2005, 08:55 PM

sp how did you find the nizoral shampoo did you find iit effective to stop acne and those it really stop hair from falling??????

**NickHex81** · 12-14-2005, 09:39 PM

Dude, showering and tanning only dries out your skin, which in turn makes your body produce more oil, which clogs pores. You'll probably need to get on accutane...

**ganbatteman** · 12-14-2005, 10:04 PM

i been on accutane

you should try taking massive loads of B5 before you start on accutane b/c it works the same way, reducing oil. There is an article if you google it on b5 vs. accutane

accutane will in no way prevent future breakouts once your not taking it, but it does reduce the oil production on your skin over time

accutane dry'd out my lips so much that when i opened my mouth wide in the morning there would be cuts along the sides of my lip because of the dryness

My best advice would be to try OTC products deligently before turning to somehting like accutane

**Sharky72** · 12-14-2005, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by puremass

i had bad acne from test. went to dermatologist and got all sorts of expensive creams doxycyline or whatever its called and nothing seemd to work. it was to the point of assistic acne big f%$#ing boil like zitss lol.. what i found to work was keep it as clean as possible and most important watch what u eat.i found that if i ate pizza my skin would feel oily the next day and thenwould start to break out. 2 days of shit food in a row forget about it my shoulders were huge frome bright red lumps filled with an oily puss. so went on a diet that i should of been on the whole time.. no greese back cleard up great. hope evything helps.. if worse comes to worse try accutane heard it works wonders but horrible on the liver...

Good info! Thanks bro, never really thought about what my diet was like! Stupid i know but Im blessed with decent genetic so I rarely diet any longer.
Makes alot of sense, and if nothing else I'm gonna eat healthier this time around.

**Sharky72** · 12-14-2005, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by NickHex81

Dude, showering and tanning only dries out your skin, which in turn makes your body produce more oil, which clogs pores. You'll probably need to get on accutane...

Grow up champ. No reason to flame someone cause you dont agree

**MrMent1on** · 12-14-2005, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by derelict

Hey guys, Im Two weeks out of PCT from my first Cycle which was 4 weeks of dbol , 14 weeks of test e @500mgs wk, and 4 weeks of test prop at 500mgs wk.

my concern is the acnew build up on my back and shoulders. I know you guys have heard many complaints about this but I still cant find anything that works!

I go tanning 2-3 times a week. which helps dry me up, but acne is still visible.

I shower and soap the shite outa my back which again only drys me up.

any suggestions would be a huge help!

thanks again!

Might sound odd but after this cycle your body will get use to it. o nyour next cycle you wont get anymore or much acnes if this was your first cycle. my first cycle, I look like I had a disease or freaking chicken pox. my next cycle only came with like maybe 3 pimples my whole cycle. but thats just me. everyone is different.

**ganbatteman** · 12-14-2005, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sharky72

Good info! Thanks bro, never really thought about what my diet was like! Stupid i know but Im blessed with decent genetic so I rarely diet any longer.
Makes alot of sense, and if nothing else I'm gonna eat healthier this time around.

If you do some reasearch it is continually argued that diet has nothing to do with acne. Some people MAY be sensitive to specific foods which MAY cause breakouts, and some people argue diet does have an effect, but after my own research i have found that diet has VERY LITTLE almost negligable effect on acne breakouts.

Acne is mostly cause by oil clogged pores, period
i also found genetics is major cause, but if you ask people who haven't looked immensly in it they will tell you oily foods=oily skin, but don't give advice your not sure of, that has simply not been proven.

**puremass** · 12-14-2005, 10:26 PM

Ganbatterman, im just giving advise of what has helped me. my acne was so bad that when i popped them it was like my skin was seperated from my body. i could stick a freaking q-tip into the hole almost 3/4 way in. So yes i do know from experiance all the meds i was giving and nothing ever worked. been staying away from the greasy foods aka(pizza, bacon,kfc,)ect and my back and shoulders are acne free. all i have left r scars from before.. so that is what worked and is still working for me..

**Sharky72** · 12-14-2005, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by ganbatteman

If you do some reasearch it is continually argued that diet has nothing to do with acne. Some people MAY be sensitive to specific foods which MAY cause breakouts, and some people argue diet does have an effect, but after my own research i have found that diet has VERY LITTLE almost negligable effect on acne breakouts.

Acne is mostly cause by oil clogged pores, period
i also found genetics is major cause, but if you ask people who haven't looked immensly in it they will tell you oily foods=oily skin, but don't give advice your not sure of, that has simply not been proven.

You telling someone not to give advice their not sure of is sort of an oxymoron. No? What a douche

Jk! Now go study your homework

**Sharky72** · 12-14-2005, 10:28 PM

Damn. Im sorry

**ganbatteman** · 12-14-2005, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by puremass

Ganbatterman, im just giving advise of what has helped me. my acne was so bad that when i popped them it was like my skin was seperated from my body. i could stick a freaking q-tip into the hole almost 3/4 way in. So yes i do know from experiance all the meds i was giving and nothing ever worked. been staying away from the greasy foods aka(pizza, bacon,kfc,)ect and my back and shoulders are acne free. all i have left r scars from before.. so that is what worked and is still working for me..

Hey i feel for u man, seems like we went through the EXACT same situations, although cysts like that did not come everyday.... i got scars too, i also tried to get rid of those via injections via my derma w/ good results but scars will be scars. if you do have raised scars like keliods, u can make them level with the skin very easily, but sadly they'll b around for another 10 years or lifetime

Anyway for that dumbass tellin me about oxymorons jus stop talking already k?

**Sharky72** · 12-14-2005, 11:07 PM

I said I was sorry tough guy...

**derelict** · 12-15-2005, 11:35 PM

dude you guys rock!
thanks a bunch for all of the replies!...this is a thing where ill have to "guess and check" to see what works for me!

thanks again!

**NickHex81** · 12-16-2005, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by ganbatteman

i been on accutane

you should try taking massive loads of B5 before you start on accutane b/c it works the same way, reducing oil. There is an article if you google it on b5 vs. accutane

accutane will in no way prevent future breakouts once your not taking it, but it does reduce the oil production on your skin over time

accutane dry'd out my lips so much that when i opened my mouth wide in the morning there would be cuts along the sides of my lip because of the dryness

My best advice would be to try OTC products deligently before turning to somehting like accutane

You're right, it won't prevent future breakouts, but it will definitley get rid of his acne for at least 6 months. It's up to him AFTER the 6 months to diet and train right. You kind of ask for pimples when you cycle, so his best bet is to get on about 80mg's for 6 months and take care of his skin.

As far as the future breakouts go, after your 6 month treatment, they go away overnight pretty much (IF you get one). That's if you go that route.

Good Luck.

**hardgainer1** · 12-16-2005, 11:03 AM

6 months of b5? Will taking b5 during cycle affect growth?

**derelict** · 12-16-2005, 08:14 PM

whats a good dosage for b5?

**arnold_of_malta** · 12-17-2005, 08:23 PM

i think accutane helps alot with future break out even if you cycle on and off year round!!!!!!

**Tanker** · 12-17-2005, 09:24 PM

Have any of you guys tried proactive or exposed I have heard good things about both but have not used either one maybe worth a try

**puremass** · 12-18-2005, 08:33 AM

Tanker... i orderd proacvtive from tv. found it not to be helpfull what so ever. even called and asked them if it would help my acne on my back/shoulders and they said that they are not sure but will gaurentee your face. when u get the product there are like 6 diffrent bottles wash before shower durning shower at the end of shower when u get out and before bed. lol its a pain in the ass and a waste of money...

**NickHex81** · 12-18-2005, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tanker

Have any of you guys tried proactive or exposed I have heard good things about both but have not used either one maybe worth a try

Proactiv will not clear up hardcore acne. It's great to "maintain" your skin, but it's nothing like accutane. I actually used Proactiv after my accutane prescription.

**derelict** · 12-20-2005, 04:40 PM

I have just started taking 2 g's of B5 per day spred out to 500mgs 4 times per day. I wasn't told a specific amount to take so I figured I'd start here and see what happens! If anyone suggests another dosage, that would be very helpfull!

thanks again for everything guys!