Finally something I'm proud of.

[03SvtCobra]

Well after doing more reading, and actually learning(or so I think) I think I've come a cycle that I'm going to work with. I would love to hear what you all think of it. It's a my first which I'm sure you could tell due to my lack of knowledge but none the less here goes.

Week 1 - 20mg Dbol Ed, 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 2 - 20mg Dbol Ed, 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 3 - 20mg Dbol Ed, 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 4 - 20mg Dbol Ed, 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 5 - 20mg Dbol Ed, 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 6 - 20mg Dbol Ed, 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 7 - 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 8 - 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 9 - 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 10 - 250mg Test E Mon/Thurs, 250iu Hcg Mon/Thurs
Week 11 - 40mg Nolva
Week 12 - 40mg Nolva
Week 13 - 40mg Nolva
Week 14 - 20mg Nolva
Week 15 - 20mg Nolva
Week 16 - 20mg Nolva

Any concerns/comments are greatly appreciated considering I would rather get this down to something correct than just put it into my body without having a full and solid plan ready first. Thanks everyone

[jobyjoe]

Since it is your first cycle, you may just want to run the test by itself to see how you react.

[Coop77]

My suggestions are
1. Save the Dbol for your second cycle. If you insist on using it, 4 weeks is enough.
2. PCT should not begin until 2 weeks after the last test injection.
3. You probably won't need 6 weeks of pct for a 10 week cycle. 3 weeks will probably be fine.
4. I would run Arimidex or another AI throughout the cycle
5. I wouldn't start hCG until about the 4th week, or you notice atrophy.

[cfiler]

The cycle looks good imo. I'd add clomid in for PCT, and maybe some other supporting suppliments like trib & milk thissle (which should be taken with the dbol .)

[03SvtCobra]

Wow thanks everyone. Yeah the dbol was a friend of mine's idea. It worked great for him but we are different and reactions may be different. Personally I think if I add dbol with the test the results are going to be more than what I expected.

The dbol for 6 weeks also had me wondering. As I know the test won't kick in until around the 6th week anyways, but I did not want to start going up with the dbol, for 4 weeks only to plateau until the test starts to work. However that is probably just a misconception on my part.

Now since one mentioned Arimidex and Chlomid. Would it be wise to use all 4 Chlomid/Nolva/Arimidex and Hcg all at once or would that be too much for my body to handle?

Thanks again for all those who have posted so far!

[perfectbeast2001]

no need to run clomid and nolva. Just run the nolva and the arimidex and HCG if needed. The ARR site (top right banner) is good place to get these things. arimidex is called liquidex on there.

[jkilla13]

i would loose the d bol for the first cycle and bump the test up to 500 mg/ew and also add clomid to your pct

[03SvtCobra]

no need to run clomid and nolva. Just run the nolva and the arimidex and HCG if needed. The ARR site (top right banner) is good place to get these things. arimidex is called liquidex on there.

Ok so during the cycle come the 5th/6th week I'll start on the Hcg just to prevent atrophy as I do not want that at all. I'll keep the nolva ready for pct for 4 weeks 40mg for 2 weeks then 20mg for 2 weeks according to a post above. When should arimidex be taken? All through out the cycle from week 1 on?

i would loose the d bol for the first cycle and bump the test up to 500 mg/ew and also add clomid to your pct

Well the Test is at 500mg a week...250mg 2x a week on tues/thurs, I don't want any soreness what soever. Just trying to eliminate any and all issues.

[perfectbeast2001]

If you start suffering from bloat then run the arimidex throughout, you can run it throughout just to be on the safe side anyway. I would run pct with arimidex and nolva. I would run nolva at 20mg and arimi at 0.5mg for 4-6 weeks (I would see how I felt as to when I stop).

[03SvtCobra]

Yeah thats what I was thinking, as this may be my first cycle but it's not a huge doseage/prolonged cycle, so I should be alright with that.

Now on a matter of opinion, how do you feel about running hcg around my 5th week on through the end of pct as well, to keep atrophy under control. I'm told by several people that it's a good idea and several that it is not, personally I don't see the harm other than maybe prolonged exposure to hcg may cause problems?

[italianplayboy09]

honestly you can run the dbol for 6 weeks if you like and start out at 30mg ed

[Coop77]

Yeah thats what I was thinking, as this may be my first cycle but it's not a huge doseage/prolonged cycle, so I should be alright with that.

Now on a matter of opinion, how do you feel about running hcg around my 5th week on through the end of pct as well, to keep atrophy under control. I'm told by several people that it's a good idea and several that it is not, personally I don't see the harm other than maybe prolonged exposure to hcg may cause problems?

There are lots of different opinions about how best to use hcg . My understanding is that it stimulates your balls, but can be suppressive to the other parts of the HPTA. So it's a good thing to use to prevent atrophy during cycle, or to treat existing atrophy, but should not be used throughout your PCT. I use small dosages starting about halfway through the cycle and then stop around the time I start PCT.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[perfectbeast2001]

I use HCG at 500iu every 3 days during cycle.

[03SvtCobra]

honestly you can run the dbol for 6 weeks if you like and start out at 30mg ed

Yeah I know I could probably go up a bit higher in the doseage, but I'd like to see how I react before I get up to that. If it all goes accordingly then I'll up it, but to be safe I'll start off small

There are lots of different opinions about how best to use hcg . My understanding is that it stimulates your balls, but can be suppressive to the other parts of the HPTA. So it's a good thing to use to prevent atrophy during cycle, or to treat existing atrophy, but should not be used throughout your PCT. I use small dosages starting about halfway through the cycle and then stop around the time I start PCT.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah that was my understanding as well. I was planning on starting it at about the 5th week until a week or so after my last injection which is 7 week total. The arimidex will be taken eod throughout the cycle and continuing into pct with nolva at 20mg. Pct will be about 4 weeks long as this is a relatively low doesage cycle so a 6 week or longer one isn't really needed. Well see how I feel as "PerfectBeast" stated and I check out then I will stop after around 4-5 weeks.

Thanks everyone who posted thorough and quick responses!

[03SvtCobra]

Instead of starting another new post I figured I should post back in here, to save space.

A friend of mine is trying to discourage me from taking Dbol as it gave him severe a**ominal pain. Now I was doing a bit more reading and would it be more beneficial for me to drop Dbol completely and just run Test E for 12 weeks @ 500mg a week (split into 250mg 2x a week) to limit any possible soreness. As I know the Test will not kick in really until the 6th week anyways, so that would give me only 6 weeks of solid gains, do you think that would be enough?

Currently I'm 6'2 180lbs @ around 8-9%bf. My goal is at least a lean 200lbs, preferably more but I will see how it goes. This is my first cycle but are my goals a bit unreasonable or no?

Thanks again!
Nick

[GGallin]

Well buddy I am 6ft 250, I just started my first cycle last week of 500mg test E ew 2x. I am also taking deca 300mg ew. I am sure you can pack on 20lbs but you will prob only keep a little more than 1/2 that post cycle.

[Hellmaskbanned]

Instead of starting another new post I figured I should post back in here, to save space.

A friend of mine is trying to discourage me from taking Dbol as it gave him severe a**ominal pain. Now I was doing a bit more reading and would it be more beneficial for me to drop Dbol completely and just run Test E for 12 weeks @ 500mg a week (split into 250mg 2x a week) to limit any possible soreness. As I know the Test will not kick in really until the 6th week anyways, so that would give me only 6 weeks of solid gains, do you think that would be enough?

Currently I'm 6'2 180lbs @ around 8-9%bf. My goal is at least a lean 200lbs, preferably more but I will see how it goes. This is my first cycle but are my goals a bit unreasonable or no?

Thanks again!
Nick

You should be bigger than that before even cycling.

[DSM4Life]

Instead of starting another new post I figured I should post back in here, to save space.

A friend of mine is trying to discourage me from taking Dbol as it gave him severe a**ominal pain. Now I was doing a bit more reading and would it be more beneficial for me to drop Dbol completely and just run Test E for 12 weeks @ 500mg a week (split into 250mg 2x a week) to limit any possible soreness. As I know the Test will not kick in really until the 6th week anyways, so that would give me only 6 weeks of solid gains, do you think that would be enough?

Currently I'm 6'2 180lbs @ around 8-9%bf. My goal is at least a lean 200lbs, preferably more but I will see how it goes. This is my first cycle but are my goals a bit unreasonable or no?

Thanks again!
Nick

About time someone starts doing research. 500mg for 12 weeks is a perfect newb cycle and you should get great gains off it. Split the injections 3.5 days apart , Ex. Mon morning Thur night . Good luck man.

[body_by_donuts]

do the 250mgs twice a week for 12 weeks and use an AI through the whole thing. And there is nothong worng with having a strong PCT no matter the cycle.

Read this artical by anthony roberts, it should help you with your PCT.


Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)

By: Anthony Roberts


After a cycle, we have one goal: to hold onto the gains we made during the cycle. Unfortunately, this is easier said than done, because the levels of various hormones and other substances that were circulating around your body during the cycle (huge amounts of testosterone , insulin -like growth factor, growth hormone , and lower amounts of muscle-wasting glucocorticoids) are now changing. Sadly, they are making way for lower amounts of the hormones we want for building muscle, and higher amounts of the catabolic ones. What needs to be done, as quickly as possible, is to get your body to begin production of your own natural anabolic hormones, and produce less of the catabolic ones. Unfortunately, your body has other plans.
But then, so do I…

…and I’m very confident that this protocol will allow you to recover your own natural hormonal levels quickly and lose far less of the gains you worked so hard for on the cycle. This protocol, which is typically implemented after a cycle is called “Post Cycle Therapy” or “PCT” for short.

First, I’m going to tell you what anabolic hormones are typically low when a cycle ends, and which catabolic ones are high, then I’ll tell you what drugs can change that condition as fast as possible. Is all of this necessary? No, not at all. You can skip to the end of the article and look for a little chart I made - the extent of my computer skill - which has all of the dosage recommendations and compounds involved to properly recover from your cycle. I think, however, that you’ll see some very odd recommendations if you simply skip to the end, and will find yourself reading through the whole article to find out where they came from - or maybe you’ll just try to find out what’s gotten into me?

I’m not re-inventing the wheel here, and you may have seen a piece of this information elsewhere (possibly in something I’ve written, possibly somewhere else on the internet or in a magazine), but I’m sure of two things:

* You’ve never seen this PCT protocol anywhere
* This is the most effective PCT you’ll ever see

First, I’ll give you a brief explanation on the body and how it works, and why there’s a lag-time after the cessation of Anabolic Steroids before the body returns to normal. Remember, during this lag-time you lose gains, so we really need to make it as short as possible. First, we need to understand a bit of what is going on in your body, what causes it to happen naturally, and what hormones are performing what function. Don’t worry, I’ll try to make it painless.

At the age of puberty, Gonadatropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) is increasingly released from the Hypothalamus, in turn causing the secretion of Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Luetenizing Hormone (LH) from the pituitary, and finally the male gonads (testes) are then stimulated by those pituitary hormones (LH and FSH). (1). FSH, although generally thought to only have a role in production of sperm, actually aids the in regulation of Leydig Cell function (2), while LH directly causes the Leydig Cells in the testes to secrete androgenic hormones such as testosterone (which is causes a surge in other anabolic hormones: Insulin Like Growth Factor, Growth Hormone, etc…). Androgens do this by then targeting other tissues inside the body, either by attaching to the Androgen Receptors (AR), which are found primarily in the cytoplasm of specific cells, or by what’s known as non-receptor mediated effects. When an androgen (your own natural testosterone or an anabolic steroid you’ve injected or ingested) binds to a receptor inside the cell, it activates the transcription of specific genes. What does this mean? Don’t worry, it just means that the steroid molecule gives the cell a message to do something. In the case of testosterone, for example, one of the messages it sends to the cell is to increase nitrogen retention in your body, thus allowing you to use more of the protein you take in, and build more muscle. In the case of testosterone (or anabolic steroids in general), this transcription causes a lot of different anabolic effects to take place: an increase in IGF, a decrease in cortisol, an increase in Red Blood Cell count, and the increased protein synthesis I already told you about. This is not to say that AR binding is the only thing that causes anabolic or androgenic effects, however. Oxymetholone and Methandrostenolone (Anadrol and Dianabol ) both bind very weakly to the AR yet are both highly anabolic and androgenic. The diagram below is an example of an androgen’s entry into a target cell, where it (in this case) stimulates protein synthesis, which is a major anabolic effect:


Under the control of this heightened state of androgens, you also go through androgenic development as well as anabolic development. This can be seen in puberty when males grow body hair experience voice changes, as experience genital development and growth.

Another characteristic of androgens in the body is that they are subject to what’s known as a “negative feedback loop”. Lets review one of the first things I mentioned, ok? Your Hypothalamus secretes GnRH, thus making the pituitary secrete LH & FSH, finally in turn causing the testes to stimulate the Leydig cells to produce testosterone (by conversion of cholesterol), remember? Ok, now, once testosterone is created however, it has the ability to in turn to undergo various metabolic processes that will inhibit GnRH, which in turn inhibits the secretion of LH and FSH, and that brings a halt to natural testosterone production. Once testosterone has stopped being produced, it no longer sends this negative signal, and GnRH eventually begins to do its job again. In this way, your body prevents excess hormones from being secreted and thus maintaining homeostasis (the status quo… in this case a state where you are neither gaining nor losing muscle) (1). This negative feedback loop is partially why we use anabolic steroids…we want more testosterone for anabolic purposes (or more Anavar or whatever) than our body will let us produce (not that our bodies produce Anavar, but you get the idea). When we use that injectable testosterone, it sends the message to our body to begin the negative feedback loop and discontinue producing/secreting the hormones that cause our natural testosterone production. The chart below clearly shows this process, displaying both the negative and positive feedback system(s):


So what I’m saying is that anabolic steroids increase androgen levels in the blood, bringing a halt to GnRH, making the pituitary gland (eventually) responds by reducing the release of LH; this loss of LH has the effect of shutting down testosterone, of course, which you know is produced by the Leydig cells in the testes after they are stimulated by LH. Am I being repetitive? Yes. Do you need to understand all of this in order to understand the PCT protocol I’m about to outline? Yes. Remember, the negative feedback loop is, of course, no problem while we are on a cycle. Want more testosterone (or androgens) in your body? Fill up a few more syringes!

But all good things come to an end, and most of us choose to end our cycles at some point. At this point, while there is still some androgens floating around in us, our natural production won’t begin, and even once they are out, there may be some lag time before your body figures out that it needs to start producing its own androgens again. As I said before, this lag time is severely catabolic and it’s where you lose a lot of your gains. SO what we need to do is coax the body into quickly producing its own androgens.

One of the first drugs we’ll consider for this purpose is what is typically called a SERM. Nolvadex (Tamoxifen ) is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator, which means that it has the ability to act as an anti-estrogen with regard to certain genes, yet also acting as an estrogen with respect to others. That’s the “selective” part I guess. It does this by blocking gene transcription in some cases, and initiating gene transcription in others (3). Luckily for us, it has estrogenic effects on bones (meaning it increases their density), and blood lipids -meaning it lowers cholesterol-, (4)(5)as well as preventing gynocomastia by preventing estrogen gene transcription in breast tissue. However, it acts as an anti-estrogen in the pituitary, thus increasing LH and FSH, which results in an increase in testosterone. 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (6)...Nolvadex actually has quite a few applications for the steroid using athlete. First and foremost, it’s most common use is for the prevention of gynocomastia. Nolvadex does this by actually competing for the receptor site in breast tissue, and binding to it. Thus, we can safely say that the effect of tamoxifen is through estrogen receptor blockade of breast tissue (7).
Estrogen is also important for a properly functioning immune system, and not only that, but your lipid profile (both HDL and LDL) should also show marked improvement with administration of tamoxifen (34).

Nolvadex also has some important features for the steroid using athlete. In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed (35)It can also block a bit of estrogen in the pituitary, which is a great benefit when used with HCG (more on that later) (36)(37). The increase in testosterone Nolvadex can give someone with a dysfunctional is basically that 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (6)...Why don’t we use Clomid, another SERM? Well, basically because it takes much more to do the same thing. In comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone, but Nolvadex also has the added benefit of significantly increasing the LH (Leutenizing Hormone) response to LHRH (LH-releasing hormone) (6). This most likely indicates some kind of upregulation of the LH-receptors due to the anti-estrogenic effect Nolvadex has at the pituitary. Although both Nolvadex and Clomid are both SERMs, they are actually quite different. As you already know, Nolvadex is highly anti-estrogenic at the hypothalamus and pituitary, while Clomid exhibits weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary (7), which as you can guess, is less than ideal. It should be avoided for the PCT I’m suggesting…and in fact, avoided in general…it’s simply not as good as Nolvadex.

Need I even add that the 150mgs of Clomid you need to get the hormonal increase experienced with 20mgs of Nolvadex is much more expensive? So lets dump the Clomid…and no, using it along with Nolvadex will provide no “synergy” that I’ve ever seen in any relevant study.

SO how much Nolvadex should you use during PCT? I favor using 20mgs.day, although to be totally honest, you can probably even get away with far less than that. Doses as low as 5mgs/day have proven to be as effective as 20mgs/day for certain areas of gonadal stimulation. (8) 20mgs/day, however, is a dose that myself and others have used with great success, and the research I’ve done in this area typically uses this milligram amount. SO lets stick with 20mgs/day for now.

So that effectively suggests Nolvadex can not be used at Mega-doses to get a mega-increase in your natural hormones. We can’t use huge doses of any Anti-Estrogen, actually, and expect huge increases in our natural hormones, actually. Arimidex (an Aromatase Inhibitor –which means it stops the conversion of testosterone into estrogen-another drug used to fight breast cancer like Nolvadex) exhibits basically the same effects when .5mgs or a full 1mg is used (9) and I have even read studies where up to 10mgs/day of Arimidex is studied with no clear benefit over 1mg/day. Letrozole (another Aromatase Inhibitor) is capable of inhibiting Aromatase maximally at a mere 100mcg/day (10.). So clearly we need to add in other compounds to our PCT, because Mega-Doses of one compound will not I think it’s absurdly funny to see people recommending upwards 40-80mgs/day of Nolvadex, or a full milligram (or two!) of Arimidex, in their post-cycle or on-cycle suggestions. I’d steer very clear of listening to anyone who makes those types of recommendations…

All of this tells me that you can’t simply use mega-doses of Anti-Estrogens or SERMS to do anything more than reasonable doses. It must be, therefore, that your body can only respond with so much vigor to any one drug in those families. So lets add in another drug or two, ok? This way we can use reasonable doses of a few drugs and produce some synergy…hopefully decreasing our recovery time.

We’ll need something to go with Nolvadex, which acts in a different manner, and Human Chorionic Gonadatropin (HCG) is the clear choice here. Here’s where things get a bit controversial (no, really…I know you , because I’m pretty much the only person around (currently) who recommends HCG for Post-Cycle Therapy. Although I’m seen as Old School in this respect, really, this is a totally new paradigm for HCG use, made possible only by the inclusion of the other compounds I am introducing to you for PCT. HCG is the natural choice, as it has been used successfully to cure AAS induced (11), and this alone warrants its inclusion to our cycle.

HCG is a peptide hormone manufactured by the embryo in the early stages of pregnancy and later by the placenta to help control a pregnant woman’s hormones (can anything really be said to control a pregnant woman’s hormones except ice-cream and chocolate?). Obviously, as you can guess from the name, it is a substance that stimulates the gonads (hence: gonadotropin). It does this by initiating gene transcription that is identical to that of Luetenizing Hormone, thereby causing the Leydig Cells to produce testosterone. Sounds great right? We can stimulate LH and FSH production with our Nolvadex, and then directly stimulate the Leydig Cells as well, to produce tons of testosterone by different routes! Well...it’s not all that simple.

Unfortunately, while HCG increases Testosterone, it increases estrogen as well(12). As you probably know, estrogen acts directly on the Leydig cells to effect changes in the activities of enzymes important for testosterone synthesis (13) and may actually be considered an important part of that negative feedback loop I mentioned earlier. In addition, an increase in circulating levels of LH have been shown to induce down-regulation of LH-receptors in both rodent studies (14), as well as in human studies (15); since HCG mimics LH, you can expect it to do the same. This LH downregulation can cause an increase in steroidogenic cholesterol (the cholesterol earmarked by your body for conversion into testosterone). (16). Thus, after the initial HCG induced surge in testosterone is over, if you have used enough to downregulate your LH-receptors and increase estrogen too much, then more steroidogenic cholesterol is available. This is telling me that less is being converted to testosterone. In fact, rodent models suggest that if you take a dose large enough to cause a sharp increase of plasma testosterone, you will actually desensitize your Leydig cells to your next shot, and will possibly not experience any rise in testosterone from the second dose at all, or may only experience a very slight one at best (17.). Since this is due to LH-Receptor downregulation, and that occurs in human models too, it is pretty fair to assume that if your first dose of HCG is too large, your second won’t be very effective. Unfortunately, this lack of an increase in testosterone doesn’t necessarily mean that the HCG may be unable to increase circulating levels of Estrogen (18) And remember that increase in Estrogen will (most likely) cause your body ultimately to produce less testosterone. Low LH post-cycle is not the primary cause of slow recovery, because LH generally rises to levels above baseline after a cycle much sooner than testosterone production does. This is probably because the pituitary is working very hard to get your atrophied Leydig cells to start producing testosterone again. HCG should also bring back testicular volume; I feel the need to mention this because it’s important to me and I suspect most men as well. It would also appear that HCG works very well when it’s used on men who have low levels of LH to begin with (as you would be after a cycle), as many studies on pre-pubertal boys and Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadal men would suggest (19)

This suggests that a pre-exposure to normal LH levels or gonadatropins in general is necessary for HCG-induced Leydig Cell desensitization. This, of course is not a problem for us, as we’ll be using it when LH/Gonadatropin levels are very low anyway …we just need to stop using it before we regain normal function, or it will work against us eventually. (19) (20). Luckily, the temporary Anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism that is experienced after a cycle basically allows us to respond to HCG like anyone with low LH levels (21), and thus, as I told you, a lot of the possible inhibitory effect of HCG is not going to be relevant because there was no prior “priming” by circulating gonadotrophins. This is great news for us, because we are going to be using HCG during PCT, when we need to get back some HPTA function, and not when we have levels of gonadatropins high enough to cause HCG-induced desensitization.

But are we still risking some inhibition and possibly delaying our recovery by using HCG? Probably not…you see, some studies in humans have shown that HCG does not actually have a direct effect on inhibiting LH release in men (22)(23), but rather (probably) works to inhibit LH secretion indirectly, simply by stimulating the production of testosterone (thus activating the negative feedback loop). Another factor involved is the induction of testicular aromatase, which raises estrogen levels, again causing inhibition. Unfortunately, yet another process, the downregulation of the Leydig Cell LH receptor itself, seems to also play a role in high dose HCG testicular desensitization. This is also done by HCG actually blocking the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) to testosterone (24). Nolvadex actually stops this blocking-action of HCG from taking place (25). Most likely, because of Nolvadex’s direct antiestrogenic effect and LH-upregulating effect on the Pituitary, suppression of gonadotropins via HCG is (25) almost totally stopped with concurrent administration of Nolvadex! So if we Use Nolvadex and we are only using HCG when we are low in gonadatropins, we won’t be inhibited by it at all! Right?

Well…maybe…but there’s still the issue of estrogen caused by that HCG-stimulated surge in testosterone. Well…we can use low doses (300iu or so) to avoid some of that major spike in estrogen, and thus cause far less inhibition from the HCG (26). Of course, I’d want to use a bit more HCG per injection (500iu), if I could, to get my body functioning fully more quickly, and lose less of my gains. Maybe we can get away with taking some Vitamin E with our HCG, since it increases the responsiveness of plasma testosterone levels to HCG, making them significantly higher during vitamin E administration than without it (27). So we can get a better response with our HCG by taking Vitamin E (I recommend 1,000iu/day), but that doesn’t get rid of the problem that we have, which is the estrogen increase the HCG will cause.
Lets solve that pesky estrogen problem now….

Lets add in an Aromatase Inhibitor! Which one, though? Well, since we are already using Nolvadex, we can’t use Letrozole or Arimidex, as the Nolvadex will actually greatly decrease the blood plasma levels of them (28)!

So we have to use Aromasin (exemestane) as our AI, because it’s an aromatase inactivator, meaning it makes estrogen receptors useless, and instead of just inhibiting production (as an anti-aromatase would do) it cuts off production totally. Aromasin can also cause androgenic sides (29)(30)(31), which may help to elevate your mood while you are on PCT. This final drug in my recommended PCT can effectively remove up to about 85%+ of estrogen from your body (32). Most importantly, using Aromasin together with Nolvadex doesn’t reduce exemestane’s effectiveness (33). So now, I think the problem of ANY inhibition possible with HCG is solved, and we can use that 500iu/day dose that I wanted to use previously.

With this PCT, there will be a rapid increase in LH, FSH, and testosterone, as well as almost a complete block on all the factors that could be causing your natural hormones to be delayed in returning to baseline. For this reason, I feel that the second your cycle is over is when you should start this PCT (a week after your last shot, or the day after your last pill is fine). Remember, waiting for some of the extra androgens you’ve been taking to leave your body is nonsensical, as we want to start recovery as soon as possible to retain maximum gains. There is no evidence to suggest waiting any length of time after your cycle is over will increase PCT effectiveness…it simply prolongs the time you aren’t doing anything positive to regain your natural hormones. And how long do we run this for? Well…we need to stop the HCG relatively soon for reasons discussed earlier. But the Nolvadex, and Aromasin can be used for awhile longer. Ideally, we’d be getting weekly blood work, but we could also get it done monthly, and just running this PCT until we see our natural hormones restored…but weekly bloodwork isn’t really an option for most of us. Failing the option of monitoring recovery with blood-work, I’m going to give you my best thoughts on the time you should be running your PCT. It’s important to note I haven’t discussed nutrition or other compounds that may be beneficial…this is because in this article, I am primarily concerned with the restoration of hormonal function, nothing else. And with no further delays, here are my recommendations for PCT:
Week



Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20mgs/day
5 20mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

[body_by_donuts]

Sorry for taking up that much space, I was not sure if I could post an extrenal link.

[03SvtCobra]

Sorry for taking up that much space, I was not sure if I could post an extrenal link.

With an article like that you can take up as much space as you'd like. Thank you and that has to be the most thorough article on the subject I have seen in quite some time. So if that's the case I should probably just run Nolva/Aromasin throughout the cycle at 20mg/per day and skip the Hcg until Week 1 of pct.

[body_by_donuts]

With an article like that you can take up as much space as you'd like. Thank you and that has to be the most thorough article on the subject I have seen in quite some time. So if that's the case I should probably just run Nolva/Aromasin throughout the cycle at 20mg/per day and skip the Hcg until Week 1 of pct.

I take it as, run an AI like arimidex during the cycle and use Nolva and aromasin for PCT.

[03SvtCobra]

It seems as if your saying I shouldn't bother with Hcg then? Maybe I'm wrong.

[Rictor33]

Just a quick ? How much lifting experience do you have under your belt? My personal opinion is your first cycle is always going to be your best so it's best to be near your genetic limit before you turn to the dark side..

[03SvtCobra]

I've been working out steadily/and hard for the past 3-4 years. I know in no way/shape or form am I near my genetic limit. This has been a decision of mine since I was 18 but starting it at that age is rediculous and I frown apon that aswell. I'm thin by nature and as an ecto find it hard to throw any weight on, which is my fault as I never had a solid diet to work off of. If in the past I had eaten correctly I wouldn't have such an issue now, but that is in the past. My diet is sorted now, my strength is starting to take off as a result with proper training/dieting so in my eyes all I have left is to do 1 cycle and move forward with what everything I can pull out of it. I know everyone says "oh just one cycle" "just once", and most rarely keep with it, but that is a test for me that I know I can and will get by, as 1 cycle is enough for me.

[donopat]

I take it as, run an AI like arimidex during the cycle and use Nolva and aromasin for PCT.

exactly. run the ldex if you need nipple protection during the cycle because nolva just keeps it from binding to the receptors. whereas ldex cesses production. i think. that is how i understood it.

pct

do nolva and clomid.

hcg

i was told by many heavy dosage juicers that unless you really are going nuts with the test you really don't need it. or at best very little.

[pigrond]

you will be blown away by the increase in stregth you will get once things start workiing for you .you will be planning your next cycle before your done with this 1 im 6 weeks in on my 1st and lovin this stuff cant wait to get my fat cut cycle planned out. good luck to you on your 1st

[03SvtCobra]

Thanks man, the injection today went perfect I couldn't have been happier with it. Question for anyone who has used Arimidex before, when during the day would it be most beneficial to take this @ .25mg? (if anytime matters)

[king6]

Not sure about armidex, I take Letro @ .25mg in the mornings. I imagine you can do the same.

Oh and COBRA's rule.
04 Black Cobra.

[03SvtCobra]

Not sure about armidex, I take Letro @ .25mg in the mornings. I imagine you can do the same.

Oh and COBRA's rule.
04 Black Cobra.

Yeah I don't see if it would matter day or night. Just wanted to make sure thanks ....And yes my cobra was my baby but I'm starting school the 20th of this month and didn't feel like working part time just to keep the car I can only drive 8-9 months a year...She layed down 483 to the wheels and ran a best of [email protected] will admit I miss the speed but I had to be responsible this time around. Besides in a year when I'm out of school I'll be making enough to buy one again...or two...or even...dare I say C6 Z06

[SS1476]

Besides in a year when I'm out of school I'll be making enough to buy one again...or two...or even...dare I say C6 Z06

Don't say that..stick with the blue oval!

For me...
01 pony - Outlaw car
05 pony blown - Ahhhh....

[03SvtCobra]

Don't say that..stick with the blue oval!

01 pony - Outlaw car
05 pony blown - Ahhhh....

Ahhh very nice, Personally I like Gm's 06+ model line/design vs Ford, but 03/04 Cobra's....Enough said those are going to the put Gt500 I think.

I just love the look of a black on black 07 Z06 with black wheels...Just sinister...

[king6]

Damn, that is nice.

[SS1476]

Ahhh very nice, Personally I like Gm's 06+ model line/design vs Ford, but 03/04 Cobra's....Enough said those are going to the put Gt500 I think.

I just love the look of a black on black 07 Z06 with black wheels...Just sinister...

That's the reason the 05 now has
a twin screw on her,with ~15lbs

[03SvtCobra]

Heh good luck chasing down a 3200 car capable of 198mph...stock lol...Both are gorgeous cars, I've just owned my fair share of stangs and I want something new and different.

[SS1476]

Heh good luck chasing down a 3200 car capable of 198mph...stock lol...Both are gorgeous cars, I've just owned my fair share of stangs and I want something new and different.

I own that car above until 140mph
then the brick face of the pony hits
the wall,and the vette will walk away.

Bro..the 05 has a cobra shortblock
but with JE pistons for the 3-valve.
Im right around,and this is no BS...
580 RWHP..rear wheel HP,not motor.
If I were to post a pic,you might have
seen the car around if you frequent
certain pony forums.

I bleed FORD blue,so I am biased..

[king6]

You could throw twin turbos on your cobra. 800rwhp. Nobody could touch you.

[SS1476]

Ohh...yes,its a daily driver..weather permitting.

[03SvtCobra]

I own that car above until 140mph
then the brick face of the pony hits
the wall,and the vette will walk away.

Bro..the 05 has a cobra shortblock
but with JE pistons for the 3-valve.
Im right around,and this is no BS...
580 RWHP..rear wheel HP,not motor.
If I were to post a pic,you might have
seen the car around if you frequent
certain pony forums.

I bleed FORD blue,so I am biased..

What does that thing run for times? The car has to weight upwards in the 3800# area probably a bit more with you in it. With all the new structure designs/new body style that I work on, they just get heavier and heavier.

I'm not biased I just believe in what I'm seeing lately. Several mid-low 11 second times.11.2 @ 127 on Dr's Stock 06 Z06 being the fastest I've seen so far(no car/driver magazine stuff, time slips from members etc)....which is rediculous but with the right driver anything is possible I suppose.

[03SvtCobra]

You could throw twin turbos on your cobra. 800rwhp. Nobody could touch you.

Go on svtperformance.com and search for a member "Wolverine"

Turbo'd/build Sn95....Thing is a beast