BULKING: test with or without anti-e's?

**goldenFloyd** · 05-14-2002, 11:20 PM

My question is when bulking, if you are not prone to gyno, should you still run test with anti-e's? Lifting heavy while cycling is essential to grow. The logic follows that if using test without anti-e's you carry more water which lets you train heavier so that after losing that water hopefully you will have put on more lbm than if you trained without the water weight from using an anti-e like arimidex . Are the sides with test not worth the water weight strength gains?

My only cycle was a great experience, 750mg tt cyp/wk with .75mg ** arimidex ed. I carried almost zero water and fat was melting off of me. I'm at a point right now where I want to bulk and I'm going to be taking a job somewhere away from my family and girlfriend for a convenient 10 weeks... it's bulking time.

**Tapout** · 05-14-2002, 11:35 PM

just have them on hand if needed --start seeing symptoms

**Kaz** · 05-15-2002, 02:03 AM

Tapout has it - You should ALWAYS have anti-e on hand even if you dont use them. Better to be safe than sorry and each cycle can effect you differently as your body changes/gets used to the gear you use.

**big N** · 05-15-2002, 10:07 AM

i neevr take them unless i get the symtoms butt always have them on reserve ,u dont wann be walking down the beach with titties

**D3m3nt3d** · 05-15-2002, 10:29 AM

I would not use them UNLESS i had symptons, Test actually needs to produce some estrogen to get the best results..

**goldenFloyd** · 05-15-2002, 12:57 PM

Thanks guys. I always have anti-e's on hand, that is not the problem. So am I right in thinking that not taking anti-e's be better for a bulking cycle because of the added water weight?

**big N** · 05-15-2002, 02:52 PM

no nt realy cause of that unless ur into the waterbuffalo look but they are known to inhibit gains .

**Ajax** · 05-16-2002, 01:11 AM

The logic follows that if using test without anti-e's you carry more water which lets you train heavier

Give me the logic--I don't see it. (Not saying it isn't there; I am most likely just blind to he logic of it!)

If you start a cycle without using an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex or Proviron , you should have an estrogen blocker (Nolvadex ) on hand to deal with the estrogen that forms. Taking Arimidex when you have symptoms of gyno will prevent any more estrogen from forming, but it won't prevent the estrogen that has formed from causing gyno.

I keep Nolvadex on hand no matter what; even if I am using an aromataae inhibitor (I usually use Proviron); sometimes the dosage is low, sometimes I miss a dose... you never know!

**goldenFloyd** · 05-16-2002, 09:47 AM

As I understand it, the strength increase many people experience from substances like dbol and test are largely due to the water retention (there is some scientific explanation for this that I can't articulate... maybe cells are more volumized so they can react with more force when compressed under heavy weights... something like that). the other half of the logic follows is when you train heavier you grow more... so my idea, since i want to bulk this time, is to run test without anti-e's, or a very low dose, so I don't eliminate the water bloat so I can reap the strength benefits. naturally i will have nolvadex and arimidex on hand, but after running my last cycle with .75mg arimidex/ed and experiencing no bloat, I'm wondering if this time around I'll get more growth from holding some water during the cycle and having it go away as the cycle tapers down (either naturally or through arimidex use all the way through clomid).

**Kaz** · 05-16-2002, 12:37 PM

I understand (I think!) what you are trying to get at.

As I understand it when you hold water while using AS your muscle cells hold some of that water, therefore giving the muscle more leverage to push larger weights, while at the same time some water is held around the joints and connective tissues, thus allowing the muscles to push the heavier weights with no injury (Which may otherwise have been sustained)

Of course the "bloat" we all recognise is some of that water which is held in other tissues, around the face etc.

Personally I dont run anti-e unless I need to, and I just put up with the bloat if I suffer from it (I dont all the time). From what you say there is some logic to the idea that if you dont run the anti-e to prevent your bloat like you normally do you will reap the benefits (If any) that the extra water would carry.

Its worth a try. Like I said I train like that all the time and it has done me no harm, but remember that at least SOME of the gains/bodyweight you make will be water, and they are going to vanish when that water vanishes!

**goldenFloyd** · 05-16-2002, 02:12 PM

That is exactly what I was trying to say. Yea, I think if I set myself up for it mentally, esp running some arimidex the last two weeks and through clomid, I won't be shocked if I drop weight. I'll probably be happy to lose the bloat and hopefully come away with more muscle... thansk kaz for clearing my logic up.

**Dizzy** · 05-16-2002, 02:43 PM

So true...I welcome water weight. Gives me strength...and more importantly size. I will use something like arimidex or femara at the end of the cycle to shed off unwanted bloat...if needed. I do keep nolvadex on hand...just in case of gyno...But bulking during the winter....where I don't need to look good at the pool and shit LOL....i just get fat and bloated. I want to get as big as I can. I've seen the pros during the off season. Fat and water logged. And they come back bigger each year.