Non-Test Cycles?

Hello people....

This is my first post here, however I have been researching AAS on this site for about 6 months. I've been training for several years.

Most everyone under the sun, with the exception of a few, swear by Test based cycles.

I'm wondering if anyone has had success with non Test cycles. And if so, what dosages were being used, what was PCT and how did you prevent the crash and bedroom problems after?

I looking to start my first cycle soon. I was considering EQ/Winny. I'm looking gains that are going to be largely maintainable after the cycle. I know I'll lose some, but research tells me that with some AAS you keep more than with others. Thanks.

why would you not want to run test?? do you even realize how important testosterone is?

Here we go again. It's Poisonous' twin brother.

I certainly realize it. The curiosity comes from speaking with an individual who is very close with a certain pro bodybuilder I highly respect (I know, this sounds like "I knew this guy, who knew this guy,").

This bb, you may guess who, is very open about what he uses. He maintains that he sticks always to moderate dosages and won't use test. He adheres to Tren/Deca and mixes Winny and primo at times.

Now I'm curious how this works without a total crash? Everyone explains that test gives great gains...but there also the hardest to maintain after coming off, am I correct? That's why I'm asking about anyone's experience with non-test cycles.

Its not that I dont' understand the need for a test base, I'm wondering if anyone has had success outside the mold?

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Originally Posted by NYC BIG MIKE

Here we go again. It's Poisonous' twin brother.

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Way to help a newbie who has a serious question. :no:

This same pro has great genetics and used to do more test in a week than most do in a whole cycle and is basically maintaining what he has not to mention the GH, IGF-1, Insulin and T3 that he takes. It's a lot harder getting big than staying big. Ask me how I know.

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Originally Posted by NYC BIG MIKE

This same pro has great genetics and used to do more test in a week than most do in a whole cycle and is basically maintaining what he has not to mention the GH, IGF-1, Insulin and T3 that he takes. It's a lot harder getting big than staying big. Ask me how I know.

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How?

Cuz I'm a big mutha phuka.

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Originally Posted by NYC BIG MIKE

Cuz I'm a big mutha phuka.

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hahaha:7up:

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Originally Posted by NYC BIG MIKE

This same pro has great genetics and used to do more test in a week than most do in a whole cycle and is basically maintaining what he has not to mention the GH, IGF-1, Insulin and T3 that he takes. It's a lot harder getting big than staying big. Ask me how I know.

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Not that I want to drop names...and I'm not so gullible to believe everything I hear...but the "little beast from down under" is very clear to suggest that he doesn't use GH or slin. His waste line at show time might lend some credibility to this.

None the less Big Mike, I am just inquiring. I'm glad you at least are taking the time to read my posts. Unlike my purported "twin brother," as you called him, I have a formidable physique for being a life long natty. I compete against people who use AAS, and I'm cool with that. My avatar is me 3 weeks out of contest shape (I was doing a small local show as a warm up)

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Originally Posted by comebackkid

Not that I want to drop names...and I'm not so gullible to believe everything I hear...but the "little beast from down under" is very clear to suggest that he doesn't use GH or slin. His waste line at show time might lend some credibility to this.

None the less Big Mike, I am just inquiring. I'm glad you at least are taking the time to read my posts. Unlike my purported "twin brother," as you called him, I have a formidable physique for being a life long natty. I compete against people who use AAS, and I'm cool with that. My avatar is me 3 weeks out of contest shape (I was doing a small local show as a warm up)

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Congrats bro you look good especially for bein natty

Drop names? Shit, I've trained personally with 3 Mr O's in my life and tons of pros. Who gives a shit about names? I don't. Don't believe everthing you read or hear. To his credit, the little beast down under has incredible genes.

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Originally Posted by NYC BIG MIKE

Drop names? Shit, I've trained personally with 3 Mr O's in my life and tons of pros. Who gives a shit about names? I don't. Don't believe everthing you read or hear. To his credit, the little beast down under has incredible genes.

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Then help me out big mike. What should my first two cycles look like? I'm less concerned with being as big as possible while on cycle. What is more important to me is being able to maintain as much lean muscle mass as possible. If the cycle is going to make me 20 pounds heavier, only to retain 3-5...then its not worth it. If the cycle adds 15 pounds and I can maintain 10 of it...well then, here we go.

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Originally Posted by comebackkid

Then help me out big mike. What should my first two cycles look like? I'm less concerned with being as big as possible while on cycle. What is more important to me is being able to maintain as much lean muscle mass as possible. If the cycle is going to make me 20 pounds heavier, only to retain 3-5...then its not worth it. If the cycle adds 15 pounds and I can maintain 10 of it...well then, here we go.

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what makes you think you'll lose your gains with test??? all you will lose is the water and what you can't maintain from what your diet and natural test will allow. Do proper PCT, eat and train correctly, and you'll maintain nearly all your gains.....

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Originally Posted by wolfyEVH

what makes you think you'll lose your gains with test??? all you will lose is the water and what you can't maintain from what your diet and natural test will allow. Do proper PCT, eat and train correctly, and you'll maintain nearly all your gains.....

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I agree 100% with my 2nd cycle i used "test E"/deca,winny & dbol gained 10kg & lost 2 & half kg which is not noticable at all the key after the cycle is good pct, keep eating good & train less days & less intensity than you used to do on cycle during the pct.

good luck,

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So far, mainly from articles and from countless threads that a test base should always be used. I'm on my first test cycle. I was very hesitant about using test (any type). I decided on a low dose of 300mg/wk test prop and 500mg/wk Primo. I wasn't in any mood to let my bedroom action slip...that's my main reason for using test. Of course, there are better reasons...more important reasons. I would suggest that you use at least a low dose of test, say...250mg/wk if you are hesitant about using it.

Having said that, I know plenty of people who have run non-test cycles. Whether its smart or not...that's the choice they made. They did just fine. Some loose their sex drive, others are fine. Many chose to run Proviron to help with libido issues. If you are worried about sides, I wouldn't go with Tren (you mentioned Tren). I would keep researching and asking questions. Someone is bound to help you if you are adamant that you do not want to use test.

Just keep in mind that test is the most natural of all gear. With a low to moderate dose you will be fine and you probably won't suffer many (if any) sides. Without test, certain unwanted sides can appear; such as loss of libido, lethargy, etc. Good luck.

I've run tren acetate (parabolan) only cycles in the past just to see what happened. I was doing 76 mgs a day (1cc) which is actually alot. I was just bored and playing "what if".

Ive done plenty of test-free cycles now, works greate! I yust use proviron for libodo and to avoid lethargy.What I hate about test is the bad skin, acne, bloat and possible gyno issues!

its very possible to keep the majority of your gains off test, especially if you use clenbuterol during pct. personally, i always use clen, gear is expensive and it sucks having to shoot up eod, so god damn it, im going to do everything i possibly can to maintain my gains, i suggest you do the same.

you will be happier with some test in your system. using proviron with test is also a good idea, if you don't retain any excess weight (water) during your cycle then your gains will be solid.

Proviron can be used as a test-substitute in cycles, since its so effective in driving up libodo. Proviron will also mask the shutdown feeling, you get from being low on test, mainly lethargy, low-energy and depression. The advantage of proviron vs test, is that you wont get bad skin/acne and that un-attractive bloated moonface. But for someone who wants to carry as much beef as possible on hes frame, test is a must. So it all depends what your goal is.

im on an anavar only cycle right now at 60/day, and i am loving it....my drive only slightly decresed and i am gaining size and strength. I'm up about 5 lbsin 3 and a half weeks