Designing Second Cycle: Tren, Deca, and Winstrol

**razman** · 10-16-2014, 12:22 PM

So earlier this year I (5'7", 160lbs, 15%) completed my first test only cycle below:

400mg/wk Test E for 12 weeks
500 iu HCG for 12 weeks
0.20 mg Arimidex EOD for 14 weeks

After completing my cycle I did the routine PCT (Nolva/Clomid) and my blood work 2 months later came back practically the same as before I did my cycle so I consider it a success.

I am now ready to start my 2nd cycle in about a month and am considering adding one or two additional steroids to the mix. I'm debating between tren , deca , and recently winstrol .

Option 1 Tren: Based on my research tren comes in at least two popular esters (tren ace and tren enanthate ). What is the half life of each? I am considering taking 300mg/wk of tren and 150mg/wk. The reason for the low level of test e is because I want tren to be the foundation of such a cycle and the test would only act as a supplement to reduce sides (e.g., tren dick.).

Option 2 Deca: I have joint inflammation and so when I read that deca is known to alleviate such problems I became very interested. First, would a 300 mg/wk deca + 200 mg/wk test E be more effective at promoting muscle gain than just 500 mg/wk of test E? (i.e., is deca+test more effective than just test?) Second, Deca comes in two popular esters: decanoate and phenyl-prop. What is the approx. half life of each?

Option 3 Winstrol: I had never even considered adding Winstrol until I recently saw an anabolic /androgenic rating chart that listed winstrol at 320 anabolic/30 androgenic. To me this seems phenomenal because you get three times the anabolic muscle building qualities with just 1/3rd the androgenic side effects (hair loss, aggression, etc.). First, are these numbers really accurate of Winstrol's properties? I thought I'd heard somewhere that winstrol was rather weak at building muscle. Second, what forms does Winstol come in and what are typical dosing levels?

Option 4 Tren or Winstrol + Deca: Another option is stack a second steroid like tren or winstrol to test for increased muscle gain and to also add a low level of deca for joint pain relief. What are your thoughts on:
300 mg/wk tren (Weeks 1 - 12)
150 mg/wk test (weeks 1 - 12)
75 mg/wk deca (weeks 1 - 12)
0.25 mg EOD Arimidex (Weeks 1 - 14)
0.75 mg/wk Cabergoline (weeks 1 - 14)
500 iu/wk hCG. (Weeks 1 - 14)

Thanks guys for any and all help.

**marcus300** · 10-16-2014, 12:40 PM

You don't need all those compounds for a 2nd cycle especially tren ,
You also need to look at your diet because no matter how much gear you take it wont replace a good solid diet what will build muscle tissue,

**derekkpapa1** · 10-16-2014, 12:41 PM

Throw winny away if you already have joint issue because on of the side effects is it dries out your joints.

forget tren you still are too green to be messing with it.
there has be a few threads here lately when people were taking tren and could not handle the side effects (do some research on side effects because they are real).

Deca and test would be more reasonable 2nd cycle with deca around 500mg test 250mg a week.

Option 4 is hit nutrition section get good diet are bulk clean then run test only again.

I vote #4

**Temporary Accnt** · 10-16-2014, 02:48 PM

You haven't outgrown a test/oral cycle.

A cycle to compliment your first one, and one that WILL produce solid gains, is 500mg of test and an oral kicker. With a proper diet you'll make some terrific gains.

**songdog** · 10-16-2014, 03:00 PM

Bro I have to agree with all the above.IMOP just run your same cycle again and have your diet checked out.No need to be in a ruch for more compounds.When wat you are using and a good diet will work.

**Haydenz** · 10-17-2014, 06:41 AM

One thing a lot of people get lost in is more is better!!! In the aas world this isn't the case, keep it simple bro, test and a solid oral will do wonders, if you want to put on some hard size, up them calories from the get go

**lovbyts** · 10-17-2014, 07:19 AM

Hey I got my learners permit for driving. I think I want to drive in an Indy race next week.

Get it? Leave the training wheels on a while.

**razman** · 10-19-2014, 09:29 PM

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the feedback. For those of you suggesting I supplement with an oral what oral exactly do you think would be a good fit? Is D-bol 20mg/day for 4 - 5 weeks a good choice?

**tectime** · 10-19-2014, 09:48 PM

I wouldn't add an oral. I'd add deca first. If you are going to start stacking that's one of the best you will find. Tren is for later like after you have 4 or 5 more successful cycles under you.

**nuttyproffsser** · 10-19-2014, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by razman

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the feedback. For those of you suggesting I supplement with an oral what oral exactly do you think would be a good fit? Is D-bol 20mg/day for 4 - 5 weeks a good choice?

orals like dbal is very toxic to the liver....i rather do both compounds in injectable.

**razman** · 10-20-2014, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by tectime

I wouldn't add an oral. I'd add deca first. If you are going to start stacking that's one of the best you will find. Tren is for later like after you have 4 or 5 more successful cycles under you.

If I add deca how much if any cabergoline should I be taking to prevent progestin related sides? For example, if one were to take 500mg/wk test e and 250mg/wk deca how much, if any, cabergoline should be taken in addition to the standard AI (e.g., .25mg adex eod)?
Thanks.

**tectime** · 10-20-2014, 05:56 AM

Probly none man. Keep your estrogen in range and you won't have to worry about it any. Cutting your tes dose alittle will help insure that your estrogen doesn't go crazy. 400 mgs tes is really plenty and it will let the deca due it's work.

**tectime** · 10-20-2014, 06:28 AM

[QUOTE="tectime"]Probly none man. Keep your estrogen in range and you won't have to worry about it any. Cutting your tes dose alittle will help insure that your estrogen doesn't go crazy. 400 mgs tes is really plenty and it will let the deca due it's work. I'd up the deca to 300 mgs and cut the tes to 400.

**ScotchGuard02** · 10-20-2014, 11:14 AM

IMO I think you should stay with Test only cycle until you are not satisfied with the gains. It is much healthier to use the least amount of AAS to get the gains you want. AAS makes you look awesome but it also taxes the liver and other glands of the body. I would bet that the vets on this board limit their AAS use so they can balance health and fitness. You will probably use AAS for a long time. Grow your AAS usage slowly. Be healthy.

**Juced_porkchop** · 10-20-2014, 11:31 AM

test only is fine. iv done mans and still its a main. but i would add only ONE compound at a time at the most. so this next one make it test with deca or maste or an oral added with test. and save tren for few cycles, can be harsh. for me not worth it mostly.
take it slow. : )

**qscgugcsq** · 10-20-2014, 12:06 PM

Im not a fan of 19nor for people who cycle off.

Therefor I dont recommend tren or nandrolone .

Every one say that oral are toxic to the liver but it is highly overestimated(if you dont drink alcohol). Dbol . Would be a good choice for bulking.

Anavar is very versatile with few sides.

Winstrol (I personnally dont like it), but cutting wise it can help and give a good hard look.

Other oral would not be appropriated for a second cycle.

Keep in mind, that steroid works but more steroid dont equals better results... Tried it...

I do better cutting on 250mg test alone than on over 1g of anabolics a week.
Diet is everything, and when comes time to cut, increased appetite is a bitch...

Test is also very versatile(the best IMO). You cant go wrong with test.