Thread: Any anavar experts
12-22-2005, 12:26 AM #1
Any anavar experts
I only hear GREAT feedback from anavar , but i havent really researched it or even bothered reading profiles of it. anyone got some links of some good reading material, or some cycle info...
12-22-2005, 12:34 AM #2~ Vet~ I like Thai Girls
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
Here ya go mate, its great stuff I have used it a couple of times already.
Is oxandrolone an effective bridge?
See "Does anavar supress your HPTA".
What is the highest recommended dose for bodybuilding purposes?
From my research, the consensus is that anything over 80mg shows extreme diminishing returns.
Does oxandrolone supress your HPTA (natural testosterone production)?
Yes. Research shows as little as 2.5mg can supress in some folks. As far as the effects of this lowered test production, at 40mg a day, I would say that it's pretty much split evenly. Half of people will attest to loss of sex drive and testicular shrinkage late cycle, while about half attest that they retained sexual drive without any shrinkage. Bridging users be forewarned.
Reference: (Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty. Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM. )
Is clomid needed post cycle?
Yes. This should be apparent from the above question. You may find that 50mg/day for two weeks is enough however.
Oxandrolone and liver damage. What's the deal?
There is room for serious debate here. Oxandroline is 17-alpha-alkylated, so it's starting off on a bad foot. Oxandrolone has shown to cause liver values to sway outside of the "normal zone" for some posters (which may or may not indicate liver toxicity, this is debatable), however, the insert also states that oxandrolone can alter blood test results. I would treat this drug as liver toxic, supplimenting with a lot of ALA, Liver Detox, etc. However, this drug has also been used at 80mg/day to treat (and reverse!) liver damage in alcohol abusers. Hard to say what this means. My advice is to play it safe and treat it like any other 17aa oral.
Reference: (1: Am J Gastroenterol 1991 Sep;86(9):1200-8, A randomized, controlled trial of treatment of alcoholic hepatitis with parenteral nutrition and oxandrolone. I. Short-term effects on liver function. Bonkovsky HL, Fiellin DA, Smith GS, Slaker DP, Simon D, Galambos JT.)
Cholesterol? Heart attack time?
User experience seems to point to the fact that prolonged use does bring your good cholesterol down and your bad cholesterol up. Take your flax seed oil.
"Also, because oral steroids can decrease the "good" HDL cholesterol and increase the "bad" LDL cholesterol, oral steroids can increase the risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). If you use oral anabolic steroids consider taking 400 to 800 IU of Vitamin E, and 1,000 to 2,000 mg. of Vitamin C with each meal. These vitamin antioxidants help to protect cholesterol from the oxidation that is associated with CVD."
(Oxandrin May Cause Liver Toxicity, by Michael Mooney (Original article in issue #7, October, 1998. Updated July, 2001)
Will grapefruit speed absorbtion?
Naringen present in grapefruit juice has shown to increase absorbtion of 17 alpha-ethinylestradiol (EE2), however, it is pure speculation as to its effects are similar in 17-alpha-alkylated substances. Hey, it cant hurt!
(Can grapefruit juice influence ethinylestradiol bioavailability? Author: Weber A; J¨ager R; B¨orner A; Klinger G; Vollanth R; Matthey K; Balogh A)
What about the different brands of Oxandrolone floating around? What to choose?
** "10mg tabs" Street price: ~$.40/"10mg"
This product must be chewed says the "manufacturer". This product is underdosed, and of dubious purity and consistency. Lab results on a test done on another board showed the pills to contain a little over 4mg of oxandrolone.
BTG/SPA 2.5mg tabs. Street price: 1-2$ per pill.
Exceptional results can be obtained with this product using signifigantly lower doses (e.g. 25mg instead of 40mg). This can probobly be attributed to greater absorbtion via proprietary "delivery systems". Outstanding product if you can afford it.
Spanish Generic 10mg caps. Street price: $1/cap.
Nothing but positive feedback so far. Tested within pharm. margin of error (+-10%). Here are the results. These are great if you can still get them.
Percentage OX: 4.42%
Percentage moisture: 2.1%
Total OX content: 9.55mg
(Credit goes to Fonz.)
Ttokkyo Labs. 5mg tabs. Street price: around 1.50 each.
Consistent, well dosed product. Does not seem to have the absorbtion or potency of the BTG/SPA product. Because of the extreme cost, I would never choose this over BTG or SPA except for availability issues.
Common side effects you should be prepared for: Appetite loss, stomach discomfort, increase skin "grease". I personally suffered extreme loss of appetite, but no stomach discomfort. Appetite came back in 1 week.
Rarer side effects: acne
Overall, this is an extremely mild drug. You should experience virtually no side effects. Those you do experience will diminish over time.
As ulter once said "safer then baby food".
How long before it kicks in?
Individual thing. Varies on product line as well. BTG hits quickest, ** slowest if at all.
I noticed vascularity and hardness within 2-3 days with generics, and strength in 2.5 weeks. Huck saw strength in 3 days on BTG. Wait about 3 weeks for the full effect before you get dissapointed.
Vascularity and hardness will come quick, it's very nice. I had spiderweb viens on my pecs that I've never seen before in just 3 days on Ox.
What is this drug used for?
Involuntary weight loss. HIV, AIDS, burns etc. Liver treatment in severe alcohol induced liver damage.
What is the halflife of Ox?
When should ox be dosed?
There are two camps.
Camp 1: Take it all in the morning. The rationale is that your blood concentrations will 'fall off' by the time you go to bed, which will limit HPTA impact during this crucial "recentering" time for your body.
Camp 2: Spread it out evenly through the day. This will keep blood concentrations steady. Plus, don't we want that nice anabolic substance in our veins during our growth at night?
My comments: With a halflife of 9 hours, this issue is virtually meaningless. The ideas used in "camp 1" apply well when you have a substance with a 3 hour halflife (dbol ), (e.g. if 30mg of dbol is taken at 9am, only about 1 miligram is left in your bloodstream by bedtime. great.) I don't think things pan out so well with a 9 hour halflife drug. If 40mg is taken at 9am, at bedtime you will have approximately 10mg or more in your bloodstream. You would have about 15 at bedtime if you took it 4 times evenly through the day. I don't think you are giving your body any dropoff at night anyway.
Conclusion: Take it whenever you want. Choose the camp you agree with and do it, things will work out.
What gains can I expect?
Individual question. I've heard of folks with no gain in lbm, I've heard of a 15lb gain. It all depends on your diet, brand, etc. However, don't expect this to pack 3 times the punch of a sust/dbol cycle because it costs 3 times as much. .
This question is actually pretty silly, so I won't delve into it.
You CAN expect hardness and vascularity.
How about doses for women?
Go scope out the Womens discussion. However, from the grape vine I've heard of dosages starting at 2.5mg/day ramping up to 10mg/day. I wouldn't recommend more. I know little about anabolics in women though. Don't use anything but BTG/SPA. The cost is so small with female dosages and the damage done to a women's body from counterfiets is far too great. Overmore, you can't dose small amounts accurately with 10mg caps/tabs.
How long is a typical Oxandrolone cycle?
Most tend to agree longer is better with Ox. 6 weeks seems to be the minimum, while 10 weeks is recommended and common. Over 10 weeks might be stressful on the ole' liver.
12-22-2005, 12:50 AM #3
Great thanks kale..now leading from my last post;
how would i cycle anavar and clenbuterol together, and forget the winstrol , or actually, cycling winstrol/anavar/clenbuterol? AND i would want to stack that with a test, would test e 250mg/weekly or teste250mg/2xweekly...i dont really want to do propinate, i hate being a human pin cushion.
so from what i understand (correct me for better results/if im wrong)
wk1-10=base test e; 250mg/weekly
day5-IF NEEDED 100mcg
wk5-6 Clenbuterol cycle repeated
during cycle, 2g taurine eod
12-22-2005, 01:23 AM #4
12-22-2005, 04:40 AM #5
i dont know about runnin wini and var together they are both 17aa's can lead to unwanted side afects
12-22-2005, 04:49 AM #6
Street/Brand Name: Anavar
Chemical/Pharmaceutical Name: Oxandrolone
Chemical Structure: 5 alpha-androstan-2-oxa-17 alpha-methyl-17 beta-ol-3-one
Chemically related parent structure: DHT
Administration Protocol: Oral
Typical dose: 30-60mg/day (male), 5-15mg/day (female)
Base Molecular Weight: 306.4442
Weight of Ester: N/A
DHT Conversion: No – already 5-alpha reduced.
Description of Original Medical use.
Developed as a growth stimulant for children, additional uses include treatment of osteoporosis, treating burn victims, and HIV wasting.
Interesting Medical Findings:
In elderly adult males Oxandrolone reduced abdominal fat and inproved insulin sensitivity. (1)
Oxandrolone is less liver toxic than most other c17-aa steroids . (2)
Oxandrolone decreases HDL and increases LDL cholesterol (not a good thing). (3)
Cutting/Lean Mass/Low weight gain Strength cycles.
Anavar is a very mild oral steroid that was previously prescribed to both children and women. It is highly sought after by athletes, weight regulated power/strength athletes and bodybuilders. Bodybuilders prefer Anavar since it does not aromatize and contributes to a hard, lean, dense look that the modern bodybuilder seeks. Since Anavar will not cause a drastic increase in size or weight it is sought after by athletes in weight regulated sports since the strength gains can be quite nice. Oxandrolone is also preferred by the female athlete and fitness competitors since in its effective dose it shows little to no virilization symptoms. Because of these factors Anavar is typically one of the more expensive compounds that is commonly used in the AAS world, and is often faked. Therefore it is important to have a reliable supplier.
There is a popular myth that Oxandrolone does not effect HPTA This is not true although less suppressive than many other AAS compounds it still effects HPTA. (4) , (5) Therefore Anavar should be avoided during PCT during which time proper PCT focused on restoring endogenous testosterone production and restoring HPTA should be followed.
Anavar is commonly found in pressed tablet form, however many reputable underground labs are offering capsules and liquid anavar.
THis is from BB4L write by a mod over there Know as the peoples' Mod
12-22-2005, 04:55 AM #7Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Melbourne, Australia
Your already going to be a pin cushion from the winni so why not mix in a litle prop while your at it?
If your plan was to take the wini oraly, might I suggest not doing so? Taing two oral steroids could be quite hard on your liver
12-22-2005, 05:39 AM #8
What are your goals?
From the dosages of var you will be running you will be VERY DISAPPOINTED in the results.
I ran it a few times and for me arounf 80mg ED was where I saw nice results.
12-22-2005, 08:30 AM #9
You aren't going to see anything from 20mg/day, that is a waste of product.
12-22-2005, 08:34 AM #10
12-22-2005, 09:32 AM #11
12-22-2005, 10:36 AM #12Originally Posted by TheMudMan
I relized after i posted, i should take 40-50mg of var. but my goals are; after this bulking cycle im on now...take a short cycle of cutting agents to get rid of the beefy look and get some definetion, nothing to serious considering getting ripped, cuz i still like that bulk look, but would like a little definetion.
Milkly87- yes i kno winni is injectable everyday, and i dont want to be a pin cushion there for ill be oraly taking winstrol at a low dose of 20mg/ed- and with both anavar and winni in my liver, 1000mg of milkthistle daily, which should help my liver ALOT.
12-22-2005, 10:54 AM #13Originally Posted by TheMudMan
12-22-2005, 11:02 AM #14
my goal is to try to get definition of my bulk, get that extra muscle tone, if i up the dose of var to 50-60mg/ed would this get what i want, and not losin alot of muscle
12-22-2005, 06:45 PM #15Member
Originally Posted by Hard Head
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Melbourne, Australia
12-22-2005, 06:49 PM #16Originally Posted by Milky87
12-23-2005, 12:13 AM #17Originally Posted by TheMudMan
12-23-2005, 05:13 AM #18Junior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
Stolen from profile...
"With the structural (c17-AA) alteration, the tablets will also place a higher level of stress on the liver than the injectable (which avoids the "first pass"). During longer or higher dosed cycles, liver values should therefore be watched closely through regular blood work. Although less common, there is still a possibility of liver damage occuring with the injectable form. While it does not enter the body through the liver, it is still broken down by it, providing a lower (but more continuous) level of stress. Such stress would of course be increased with the addition of other c17-AA oral compounds to a cycle of Winstrol . When using such combinations, cautious users would make every effort to limit the length of the cycle (preferably 6 to 8 weeks) and take some form of liver protectants."
12-23-2005, 05:20 AM #19Junior Member
Originally Posted by onehundredk
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
I would bump up the test to 500mg/week, and throw in one other compound such as winny @ 50mg/day, or tren at 50mg/day. Both of these options would allow you to minimise muscle loss whilst cutting the calories right back and hitting some cardio. You could also run a few other things like ECA, T3, and clen too.
12-23-2005, 06:26 PM #20Member
Originally Posted by joop
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- Dec 2005
- Melbourne, Australia
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