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  1. #1
    Jayhawk21's Avatar
    Jayhawk21 is offline Junior Member
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    Turanabol or Anavar w/out test

    Yes, I am planning on doing a 4-6 week T-Bol or Anavar only cycle without test. Yes without test. Everybody tells me to add test as a base but I am NOT going to and this is why. I have read of it causing people to have back hair, increased body hair, increase growth rate of hair and I am not going to deal with that. I already have a horrible problem with body hair that I treat with laser, and that is spendy and only temporary. Additionally, I have already had natural gyno and I need something mild that I know will not aromatize. So at any rate, I just have a few questions..

    1) I want to do two cycles one after another. What I mean by that is going 5 weeks T-Bol, then PCT for 2-3 weeks, 2 off and then do another cycle either with the same compound or alternating first cycle with Turanabol and 2nd with Anavar. Is this a good idea or would my liver not be fully recovered yet? Or is this too soon to start up again?

    2) I want to run Nolvadex the whole time, and during PCT afterwards. Most people say to just run this anti-E in PCT, but wouldn't it be helpful to use during my cycle for an extra precaution? Does this hinder gains by taking it during the cycle? Better safe than sorry for me regarding Gyno.

    3) What else do you guys recommend for PCT? I want to stay clear of clomid due to it's side effects. Is HCG necessary or any others or should I just stick with straight Nolvadex?

    4) I would like to try anavar but it is expensive. What is a good dose I can only afford 1000 mg, so about 30 mg a day is all I would be able to take for about 4.5 weeks. Would that be an effective dose or would I likely require more to see some real results?

    Since I have not done AAS, I want to use a mild steroid and see how I react. I realize I may compromise alot of possible gains due to a mild first cycle, but I am willing to live with that. If I don't get any gyno, and everything goes well then I may, and only maybe I would try test next winter.

    Proposed Cycle
    weeks 1-4 TBOL 50 mg/20 mg Nolva ED (Milk Thistle, Liv52, Tylers for liver)
    weeks 4-6 PCT Nolva 20 mg
    week 6-7 NOTHING
    weeks 7-11 TBOL 50 MG or ANAVAR 30 MG/20 mg Nolva (Milk Thistle etc)
    weeks 11-14 PCT Nolva 20 mg

    Thanks guys! Happy Holidays!

  2. #2
    Anabolios's Avatar
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    maybe you should just stay away from gear all together
    unless you are looking for very little gains

  3. #3
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    1)no you can go longer. 2-3 bridge isnt gonna help. go 10. use one or the other for the whole cycle.
    2)its unlikely these drugs will cause gyno and require any nolva, or PCT for that matter. if for some reason you get gyno, use nolva but will reduce gains.
    3)you likely wont need any PCT. you wont be badly suppressed. recover naturally youll be fine.
    4)if your that limited to funds you may as well not cycle.

  4. #4
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    I would go for it. A T-bol var combo with a good high cal clean diet should produce some nice lean gains. If your financial situation does not allow run T-bol alone for 6 weeks. Follow up with PCT using a drug like nolvadex .

  5. #5
    Jayhawk21's Avatar
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    maybe you should just stay away from gear all together
    unless you are looking for very little gains
    I'm not looking to gain 40 pounds or anything. I realize that this will probably only manifest itself into anywhere from 7-10 pounds of dry muscle. From where I see it these two are the best risk reward for me that I'm willing to take. 3-4 cycles of these and maybe I could gain a good 20 pounds, ya never know. I really don't have any desire to be much bigger than that. I'm also worried about strength too, and not just the bodybuilding aspect which is why I chose these two.

  6. #6
    Anabolios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawk21
    I'm not looking to gain 40 pounds or anything. I realize that this will probably only manifest itself into anywhere from 7-10 pounds of dry muscle. From where I see it these two are the best risk reward for me that I'm willing to take. 3-4 cycles of these and maybe I could gain a good 20 pounds, ya never know. I really don't have any desire to be much bigger than that. I'm also worried about strength too, and not just the bodybuilding aspect which is why I chose these two.
    that would work but there is a good chance that you wont keep gaining this amount of muscles everytime...BUT if you are going for a little bit of lean muscle id say this would be a good start...and after your cycle keepin lifting hard with a clean diet and rest and you might be so used to a disciplined routine you might not need to cycle again GOOD LUCK

  7. #7
    Disciple is offline Junior Member
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    Sounds like a nice cycle. Keep us updated on whats going on.

  8. #8
    testosterona's Avatar
    testosterona is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerboy
    1)no you can go longer. 2-3 bridge isnt gonna help. go 10. use one or the other for the whole cycle.
    2)its unlikely these drugs will cause gyno and require any nolva, or PCT for that matter. if for some reason you get gyno, use nolva but will reduce gains.
    3)you likely wont need any PCT. you wont be badly suppressed. recover naturally youll be fine.
    4)if your that limited to funds you may as well not cycle.
    this is not very good advice DB. no PCT?!?! WTF dude! i would run tbol at 60mgs for 10wks with PCT including nolvadex at 20mgs ed. of course it wont' have too be as aggressive PCT as a "real cycle", but it is still wise to run PCT. too skip it would just be foolish>

  9. #9
    vitor is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by testosterona
    this is not very good advice DB. no PCT?!?! WTF dude! i would run tbol at 60mgs for 10wks with PCT including nolvadex at 20mgs ed. of course it wont' have too be as aggressive PCT as a "real cycle", but it is still wise to run PCT. too skip it would just be foolish>
    Pct here only needs to consist of tribulis and tongat ali. Why? Because var and t-bol doesnt convert to estrogen, so estrogen spike in pct wont be an issue. Clomid and Nolva doesnt increase testosterone levels by themselves, only by innbithion of estrogen levels.
    t-bol 50 mgs ed 1-6/8
    var 50-80 mgs ed 1-6/8
    nice cycle!

  10. #10
    MASTER's Avatar
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    ALWAYS do pct

  11. #11
    Rocky IV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC
    ALWAYS do pct
    Never ever not do pct regardless what cylcle you are on,, all steriods suppress natural testosterone ,,and you will need nova to lift fh levels..pct is a must

  12. #12
    vitor is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky IV
    Never ever not do pct regardless what cylcle you are on,, all steriods suppress natural testosterone,,and you will need nova to lift fh levels..pct is a must
    Nolva and clomid will not increase natrual test-pct if only var and t-bol is being used, because estrogen wont be an issue anyway!

  13. #13
    G.I JOE's Avatar
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    Id do a pct with tongkat ali, tribulus and adex and maybe add 10mg of nolva ed also.

  14. #14
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    PCT will still be needed. All androgens suppess natural testosterone production to some degree.

  15. #15
    cfiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC
    ALWAYS do pct
    It's stupid to risk your gains, and health by not doing it. It's not expensive, so that's no excuse. Your cycle is over, so it's not like you'll be doing anything better.

    If you don't know how to do pct properly, then you are not ready for a cycle.
    Last edited by cfiler; 12-25-2005 at 12:48 PM.

  16. #16
    Milky87 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitor
    Nolva and clomid will not increase natrual test-pct if only var and t-bol is being used, because estrogen wont be an issue anyway!
    There are two negative feedback loops: estrogen and androgen. All becuase no estrogen was formed doesnt mean he may not be suppressed.

    I would go Tbol 60mg ED for 8 - 10 weeks. Followed up with 3 weeks PCT (nolva: 40,20,20)

  17. #17
    Jayhawk21's Avatar
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    I would go Tbol 60mg ED for 8 - 10 weeks
    What are the advantages of going that long? Most of the T-Bol journals I read get gains VERY fast, like in the first 3 weeks, and almost all of their weight gains end at about the 5 week mark. Maybe I have not read enough of them, anybody that has tried T-BOL, when did your gains start to dissapate?

  18. #18
    Milky87 is offline Member
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    You and I must be reading totally different threads. The ones ive seen dont start really seeing change until almost two weeks. From there its a nice gradual climb up

  19. #19
    vitor is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milky87
    There are two negative feedback loops: estrogen and androgen. All becuase no estrogen was formed doesnt mean he may not be suppressed.

    I would go Tbol 60mg ED for 8 - 10 weeks. Followed up with 3 weeks PCT (nolva: 40,20,20)
    I never said he wont be supressed, because he will. What I said was that clomid/nolva wont help if only t-bol/var is being used, to bring back hpta faster. why? Because clomid does not stimulate teststerone production, and its activity is achived not by stimulation of the hypotalamus and pituitary, but by blocking their innbithion by estrogen, which helps hpta recover quicker, only when aas that will convert to estrogen is being used.

    Tribulis/tongkat ali would be good, but recovery in this cycle will be no real problem anyway.

  20. #20
    Drummerboy's Avatar
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    man, you would think that no one ever rebounds naturally from a light cycle. I know for a fact people can, so why take more drugs unless absolutely necessary. IMO anyway.

  21. #21
    Milky87 is offline Member
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    While he might rebound naturally, it might not be as quickly as wiht tamoxifen , meaning he could lose a greater amount of muscle

  22. #22
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    wow.. the opinions are very heated here about this..

    The best answer is for you to

    run var 40mg ed for 4 weeks then run no pct... wait 4 weeks as you had suggested..

    then run the tbol and then run the pct..

    then you will be the expert in this decussion....

    for many of us (myself included) have run var only cycles.. but i have always run pct..

    so here is a chance for you to do a journal.. and tell us how it comes out..don't forget to get blood work done before the cycle begins.. at the end.. and then when you start the 2nd.. then at the end and then at the end of pct..

    good luck..

    you will not gain 20 lbs..

    you can affor var if you are doing laser for hair..

    so good luck.
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  23. #23
    cfiler's Avatar
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    Not doing PCT is stupid.

  24. #24
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    (This was taken from MY ORIGINAL THREAD: "Turinabol + ANAVAR = ULTIMATE STACK!") FYI--I made GREAT GAINS!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have run Oral-Turinabol by ITSELF for a duration of 7 weeks at 40-60mgs and gained almost 15lbs, with a mild but appreciable strength increase, and INSANE vascularity--even moreso than var--which I have also run solo. I am currently STACKING the TWO.....

    TBOL increases LIBIDO and APPETITIE, whereas VAR DECREASES BOTH. Ergo, TBOL dose is Maintained higher than the VAR dose throughout the cycle to counteract these sides.

    I am currently running a LOW dose TBOL/VAR STACK: I will NOT be increasing calories until week 4, as this is not a SUPER BULK. I am currrently 200lbs, 9% BF, and I want to be at 200-205, 5%BF. Looking to get into semi-contest shape, although i will not be competeing.

    The liver should function healthily, as my total 17AA intake doesn't ever exceed 90mgs ED--and that is at its HIGHEST POINT. Of ocurse, use liver protectants like Liv52 and Milk thristle.

    Week1: VAR 20mgs/TBOL 30mgs ***Extremely LOW dose to ASSESS contraindications***
    Week2: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 40mgs *VAR Never EXCEEDS 30mgs, due to it's negative affect on LIBIDO.
    Week3: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 50mgs
    Week4: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 60mgs
    Week5: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 60mgs
    Week6: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 50mgs
    Week7: VAR 30mgs
    Week8: VAR 30mgs

    I am currently in day 11.
    The purpose of VAR in this cycle is strictly for Strength, hardness, and vascularity. Any contribution that VAR makes to my LBM gains will be accepted, but not expected. TBOL is the BASE of the stack. It increases Libido, Appetite, mood, and FREE test levels. (kind of like taking an oral form of test that doesn't aromatize or alpha-5 reduce!) It is also teh ANABOLIC component--it is the muscle builder. However, I also expect it to produce remarkable synergy with the VAR, producing a VERY dense, lean, shredded look.
    I ONLY USE Tribestan Tribulus Terrestris extract (or TRIBEX) and A POTENT Eurycoma Longfolia(Tongkat ALi) Extract for PCT and I have reovered SWIFTLY BOTH times. These are both NON-Aromatizing steroids , one reason why HPTA function can be mostly maintained even during
    cycle.



    [R]

  25. #25
    sandan's Avatar
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    Nice informative post Rossosterone, very helpful thankyou.

  26. #26
    MASTER's Avatar
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    Tee hee, does ross ever give up?? As usual though it is interesting stuff he posted, shame hes a buttplug!

  27. #27
    Milky87 is offline Member
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    What did Ross do to get him black-listed?

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