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  1. #1
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Arrow Please critique my 2nd cycle

    Hi!

    I'm 40, 300lbs bf% well lets just say fat.
    My first cycle was in Thailand. It went from the beginning of sept.to the middle of november. it consisted of sus, deca , primo and winni. Hcg was used for 1 week mid cycle and two weeks post. femara and nolva were used intermittently through out and for pct along with clomid.

    Please critique the second cycle I'm planning. 6-8 week cycle.

    1-testosterone 2 applications of a 100mg daily--transdermal
    testosterone- 250-300mg once a week
    Methyl-Dien 24mg divided into three does daily.


    Of course two of these were sold as prohomones pre-ban but I have heard good things about them.

    Here are some questions:
    1)Could the 1-test powder be mixed into ba to make suspension??? I'm not crazy about this because suspensions generally have to be injected each day. This question is just for future references.

    2)I'm not using much test.. Should I front load it???

    3) What kind of test??? sus or enth???

    4) How many weeks should I use the M-dien??? If not the whole cycle then which weeks??? the first or the last???

    5) What do you think I should run for Pct??? Nolva of course. But hcg??? clomid???

    Ok thats enough from me I'll wait for you guys to respond.

  2. #2
    JohnnyB's Avatar
    JohnnyB is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    Bro how did you use those drugs, how many weeks, what weeks?

    JohnnyB

  3. #3
    magic32's Avatar
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    That's an awfully heavy first cycle.
    And if those are your current stats, what were you before the first cycle?

    I know you don't want to hear this but it may be best to slow down and concentrate on some serious dieteing and stringent cardio, then begin number two.

    M.

  4. #4
    samjams is offline New Member
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    I didn't keep track lol

    I guess it may be a common newbie mistake but I was trying to keep it simple. My cousin kept wanting to increase everything.

    I probably would have done a test only cycle but I didn't think I would every have a chance to try anything else.

    Anyway, the winny was for the two of us but he has liver issues. So, it became all mine. the primo was then bought for him and was expensive. But I did decide to add that in.

    How did I use??? Hmmm Well we shot twice a week. Sunday mornings and Weds. nights. T

    he test was first which was a mistake. The Deca should have been started first. Two weeks on sus 250 twice a week then added deca in at 100mg twice a week.

    Somewhere along the line The Deca was Doubled.

    Around the six week mark we took HCG ed for a week. About 1200ius the first day and went down to about 400ius the last three days. We also took Hcg for PCT

    nolva ed during cycle along with proviron which I failed to mention the first time. Femara was added on an as needed bassis.

    This is about the best i can do. And I'm doing it so I can help you help me. lol

    Could you critique the much simpler second cycle I'm planning???

    Do you think I'll need nolva for estrogen control or is the amount of test to small????

  5. #5
    Surfstud18's Avatar
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    I concur with Magic on this one. For crying out loud your 300lbs brother and you said it's Fat. Bluking up isn't going to look good cause your too fat plus your gonna have to eat like a mad man and get even fatter. I say you get on a diet do some cardio. Read up on some Clen and T-3. And I'm sure the pro's got some good advice as well over in the Diet forum. So you might want to check that out

  6. #6
    toolman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfstud18
    I concur with Magic on this one. For crying out loud your 300lbs brother and you said it's Fat. Bluking up isn't going to look good cause your too fat plus your gonna have to eat like a mad man and get even fatter. I say you get on a diet do some cardio. Read up on some Clen and T-3. And I'm sure the pro's got some good advice as well over in the Diet forum. So you might want to check that out
    I agree with all of the above. Early morning cardio on an empty stomach is all you need at that weight. I know it's not what you want to hear but it is all you are going to get from anyone offering responsible advice. Your cycles are too heavy and your are not even close to being ready to run gear.

  7. #7
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Well it's funny

    Quote Originally Posted by magic32
    That's an awfully heavy first cycle.
    And if those are your current stats, what were you before the first cycle?

    I know you don't want to hear this but it may be best to slow down and concentrate on some serious dieteing and stringent cardio, then begin number two.

    M.

    I started losing weight in thailand but then the fat came on. really There was a point in time when i just couln't get my ass to do the cardio over there.

    Plus trying to eat over there was harsh. The only good thing was that my stregth did go up.

    I gained a little more once i came home but like many I am on a strict diet since the first of the year.

    I am also exersicing 6 days a week. I have lost ten pounds. In march I was hoping to do a 6-8 week cutting cycle. lol That should read fat loss cycle I will probably never have deep cuts.

    Ok I list where I'm at and now where I have been and now I have listed the goal of the next cycle (probably should have done that in the original post)

    Can you give me some advice on the proposed cycle???

    The cycle will include a strict diet and excersize program.

    Additionally, I'm only looking for moderate to low strength gains from it. 1-test is supposed to be a lean gainer in the DHT family, M-Dien is supposed to be a lean gainer used cutting and is in the nandro family, and test is well test. It is included to combat lethargy but is in a small dose to keep away bloat etc.

    If I were to add clen to this would that help????


    I have a month to fine tune this and see if I want to run it. I thought I could get some help from the vets instead of lurking on the boards and then testing it myself.

    Please critique!!!!

  8. #8
    Booz's Avatar
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    mate you said it yourself "FAT"!
    you need diet and cardio till you hit around the 15% mark,imo you are in no shape to take roids at this time,i am in no way putting you down mate,you just gotta be sensible with this stuff!!!

  9. #9
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolman
    I agree with all of the above. Early morning cardio on an empty stomach is all you need at that weight. I know it's not what you want to hear but it is all you are going to get from anyone offering responsible advice. Your cycles are too heavy and your are not even close to being ready to run gear.

    I do all my excersizing right now on an empty stomach the first thing in the day. After taking a month off I found i could only do 1 session a day. Meaning alternating lifting with cardio.
    Maybe next week i can do two a day. Meaning cardio in the morning and lifting in the afternoon.

    I hear what you guys are say really I do. But I don't want to small (ie less mass and less fat). I would like a little sumptin sumptin to maintain my muscle mass only and not retard my fat loss.
    The exercisizing can really take it's toll on a restrictive diet and if i can maintain my mass shouldn't I be able to burn a little extra fat each day???

    Maybe I will not do this cycle but until March COULD i PLEASE GET A CRITIQUE OF THE PROPOSED CYCLE?????

  10. #10
    Surfstud18's Avatar
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    Dude none of us are going to critique your cycle when it's your 5th post you don't even remember your first cycle. You just added crap to it. Your fat. Dude you have to lose weight before that 2nd cycle is gonna do anything for you.

  11. #11
    magic32's Avatar
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    Can you give me some advice on the proposed cycle???
    I'd take a break from cycling, and work on slimming down first.

    If I were to add clen to this would that help????
    Yes it will, but it can be harsh. Learn about it first: How & when to take it, and what to take with it.

    "...include a strict diet and excersize program."

    Well my friend that's a tall order!

    Training is not difficult, but there are many components. You need to do some reading about the principles of training along with some sample novice/intermediate techniques, then develop, based on your time constraints, goals and starting point the best one for you. This can be quite an endeavor, fortunately you came to the right place this is a knowledgeable board that has invaluable resources if you spend the time to seek them. Pinnacle compiled a rather comprehensive body of work on this topic...
    Various Training Techniques

    And remember training routines should evolve as your body does. Cardio is a must at your size and you should be doing weight bearing exercises (standing) preferably the treadmill at comfortable incline (if possible AM and PM), because this will optimize your input.

    Don't try to mimic magazine routines unless they say novice.

    And remember:
    Diet is key (eliminate junk) & eat lean meats, fruits and vegetables & do so often! YOU WON'T BELIEVE THE IMPACT HERE!!!
    Train regularly 5x a week.
    Cardio daily

    That should put you on the road. Many people believe gear is the first step and if youíre small with a training background it can be. But if your coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, you must work hard first, then solicit it.

    Enjoy,

    M.

  12. #12
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by booz
    mate you said it yourself "FAT"!
    you need diet and cardio till you hit around the 15% mark,imo you are in no shape to take roids at this time,i am in no way putting you down mate,you just gotta be sensible with this stuff!!!

    Would a cutting cycle help me lose weight or not???
    Did I screw up and post a bulking cycle????

    I don't want to be fat but I do want to maintain mass while i lose fat.

    So far nobody wants to critique they just keep telling me I'm fat. I know this I have mirrors. lol

    booz, you are the first person to alude to the fact that there may be a danger using AAS at my weight. TY could you elaborate on that in another thread???

    Could someone Please Critique This Combination Of AAS???


    And before I come off sounding like I'm not listening I would like to thank every one for reading and responding to my first post here.

    I was just hoping for discussion on the best way to combine these AAS. I mean I have this stuff laying around and whether it's a month or two years this stuff will get consumed. Yes I may wait till i lose more weight but I would still like to discuss this Combonation of AAS.

  13. #13
    Surfstud18's Avatar
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    Okay okay get this brother If i wear you i'd look into Clen and t'3 Read up on it and don't lift okay just do cardio swim, Jog, play basketball, Raquet ball. Get yourself moving. Yes your gonna lose muscle but Mostly Fat. I wouldn't worry about lose muscle i'd get rid of all that fat first. Then get on starting cycle which would be like Test E 500 and some nolva and clomind and nolva for the PCT once your done loseing weight. and you'll gain back the muslce you lost i mean start anew. get rid of the fat and take a stab lose some muslce but GIT R DUNN if that's your dream son

  14. #14
    magic32's Avatar
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    Would a cutting cycle help me lose weight or not???

    Cutting cycles are for sculpting (removing residual fat from hard earned muscle). NOT for large scale fat removal, that's called "hard work" or "liposuction".

    M.

  15. #15
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32

    Cutting cycles are for sculpting (removing residual fat from hard earned muscle). NOT for large scale fat removal, that's called "hard work" or "liposuction".

    M.
    Lmao

    Ok didn't know that Thank you very much on clearing that up. you hear these terms 'bulking' and 'cutting' so much. Everyone knows what bulking is. Thanks for setting me str8 on cutting.

    Btw I talked my cousin out of liposuction while we were in thailand. Didn't think the weight would stay off if the reason it was there was not corrected.


    So no discussion on this AAS combo????


    Magic thanks for all the constructive advice and links.

  16. #16
    magic32's Avatar
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    Btw I talked my cousin out of liposuction while we were in thailand. Didn't think the weight would stay off if the reason it was there was not corrected.
    SO CORRECT IT!
    It's a valid option

    M.

  17. #17
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32
    SO CORRECT IT!
    It's a valid option

    M.
    Tell him!!! He was the one that wanted it.

    If I ever get my waist down to a 34 again (like it was two years ago) I may opt for a little lipo. Just don't want fat cells lurking and waiting for a chance to grow.

  18. #18
    magic32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samjams
    Tell him!!! He was the one that wanted it.

    If I ever get my waist down to a 34 again (like it was two years ago) I may opt for a little lipo. Just don't want fat cells lurking and waiting for a chance to grow.
    That's a misconception.

    They lurk now.
    After lipo, they are gone. That's what lipo is, the extraction/removal of fat cells. The only way to get them back is to regrow them, through continuing bad habits.
    Change of habits = no new fat cells.

    M.

  19. #19
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32
    That's a misconception.

    They lurk now.
    After lipo, they are gone. That's what lipo is, the extraction/removal of fat cells. The only way to get them back is to regrow them, through continuing bad habits.
    Change of habits = no new fat cells.

    M.
    ??????
    isn't that what i said???? Except I also said that I would like to lose first and then have lipo.

    Confused but in agreement

  20. #20
    magic32's Avatar
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    Just don't want fat cells lurking and waiting for a chance to grow.
    That's what you said!
    And that's wrong, fat cells don't lurk after lipo, they're gone!

    Cardio just burns the fat inside the cells , they can expand again.

    Lipo cuts it out all together, so it doesn't matter if you do it now or after losing weight. Now would save you some time.

    M.

  21. #21
    toolman is offline Banned
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    Look, your first cycle should have been proof enough. Gear is not the magic cure for hard work. It is not as though cutting cycles will melt off pounds or bulking cycles add tons of muscle. Without the right diet, lifting regimin and rest, you will find little more than bloat and sides.

    There is no such thing as not being able to lose weight if you are dedicated to doing it. I speak from experience. Save the money on the gear and go buy the book "Body For Life" by Phillips. It will give you the basics for what you need to know regarding diet and excersize. It was my first book 6 years ago when I made the life changes. If you stick to the plan, you will be amazed how the fat melts off, but it is hard work. THere is no magic pill or injection to replace that. After you have done that for a year or two, and read up on here, then and only then will you be ready to cycle where you are going to get anything out of it.

    I would not even recommend clen as there are heart issues with it at your weight. As for other dangers with AAS at your weight, high BP, worsened cholesteral levels, which I am sure yours are bad due to your diet and resulting BF, a whole host of issues. Being fat is very bad for the body and adding AAS will not help and can only hurt. Stop looking for the magic pill, pick yourself up by the boot straps and get busy with at least 45 minutes cardio on the empty stomach. Realize you do not have to kill yourself for cardio. Just get the heart rate up and keep it up. Then watch everything you put in your mouth and remember how many calories it will take to burn it off.

    Lastly you say you do not want to lose size. Fat is and will never be anything other than unnattractive fat. No one is either impressed or attracted to it, so why on earth would you not want to lose too much of it. When you are down to the muscle, then you can build that up. Otherwise you will be nothing more than fat.

  22. #22
    magic32's Avatar
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    toolman: Look, your first cycle should have been proof enough. Gear is not the magic cure for hard work.
    Well put!
    You might want to try another site.
    There's no cycle help here for 300 pounders w/ high bf.

    Let's put this thread to rest fellas.

    M.

  23. #23
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Let's Put This To Rest

    Ok guys I really feel like this thread has been hijack. And just because Iím not getting the responses I would have liked to hear or discuss doesnít mean that I donít need to hear it. Yes, I am fat. Yes, I need to lose fat. Yes, I could use all the advice you guys are giving me. So, I started another thread on that topic in the diet forum section.
    Trying to lose weight with diet and exercise. Please look over.


    If anyone would like to discuss the above mentioned stack I started a new link just for that. Please remember that knowledge from that discussion is lasting. Others can read and learn from it. And whenever I decide to use those products which I already have, I wonít have to ask again. Right. Get you ducks in a row before you cycle. Even if itís a year or two in advance.
    If you want the link is here:
    Just looking for a disscusion of a stack I thought up!!!

  24. #24
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32
    That's what you said!
    And that's wrong, fat cells don't lurk after lipo, they're gone!

    Cardio just burns the fat inside the cells , they can expand again.

    Lipo cuts it out all together, so it doesn't matter if you do it now or after losing weight. Now would save you some time.

    M.
    Magic,

    Yes, I was confused. We basically believe the same thing except for the timing. You think it is better to do lipo first. I think it is better to lose lbs first and then have it done. Make sure your lifestyle changes are working before you spend money and have surgery.

    Oh and thank you for your posts if you would like to see what my current workout regime and diet is please go to the link below:
    Trying to lose weight with diet and exercise. Please look over.

    I would really like to hear you advice but in the other thread in the proper section.
    I hope these last posts do put this thread to bed.
    Last edited by samjams; 01-23-2006 at 05:22 PM. Reason: forgot something

  25. #25
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolman
    Look, your first cycle should have been proof enough. Gear is not the magic cure for hard work. It is not as though cutting cycles will melt off pounds or bulking cycles add tons of muscle. Without the right diet, lifting regimin and rest, you will find little more than bloat and sides.

    There is no such thing as not being able to lose weight if you are dedicated to doing it. I speak from experience. Save the money on the gear and go buy the book "Body For Life" by Phillips. It will give you the basics for what you need to know regarding diet and excersize. It was my first book 6 years ago when I made the life changes. If you stick to the plan, you will be amazed how the fat melts off, but it is hard work. THere is no magic pill or injection to replace that. After you have done that for a year or two, and read up on here, then and only then will you be ready to cycle where you are going to get anything out of it.

    I would not even recommend clen as there are heart issues with it at your weight. As for other dangers with AAS at your weight, high BP, worsened cholesteral levels, which I am sure yours are bad due to your diet and resulting BF, a whole host of issues. Being fat is very bad for the body and adding AAS will not help and can only hurt. Stop looking for the magic pill, pick yourself up by the boot straps and get busy with at least 45 minutes cardio on the empty stomach. Realize you do not have to kill yourself for cardio. Just get the heart rate up and keep it up. Then watch everything you put in your mouth and remember how many calories it will take to burn it off.

    Lastly you say you do not want to lose size. Fat is and will never be anything other than unnattractive fat. No one is either impressed or attracted to it, so why on earth would you not want to lose too much of it. When you are down to the muscle, then you can build that up. Otherwise you will be nothing more than fat.

    Toolman, thanks for the advice.

    My first cycle was somewhat erratic to say the least. But there are many reasons for this. I am usally pretty meticules when it comes to these things but being in another country while trying care for an ailing relative is just the one major reason.

    I never thought that gear was a magic cure. But being in a country where roids are legal I was tempted to try them. Whichever gym i was in over there I was the hardest working person and i would have been If I had not taken any gear. Of course that isn't saying much Thais don't seem to work as hard as us.

    I have been traing for about 20 years. The books i have accumlated over the years are: The Arnold Encyclpedia of Modern body building Had that for about 17 years. The atkins diet book. And Body for life for about 2 years. It is out on loan for about the 4th or 5th time.

    I am not looking for a magic pill and have never shied away from hard work in my life.

    If you do not want to talk about this stack please
    write your post in my thread in the diet section. This has really gotten off topic. But your advice and that of others will be welcome over at that thread.

  26. #26
    toolman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by samjams
    Toolman, thanks for the advice.

    My first cycle was somewhat erratic to say the least. But there are many reasons for this. I am usally pretty meticules when it comes to these things but being in another country while trying care for an ailing relative is just the one major reason.

    I never thought that gear was a magic cure. But being in a country where roids are legal I was tempted to try them. Whichever gym i was in over there I was the hardest working person and i would have been If I had not taken any gear. Of course that isn't saying much Thais don't seem to work as hard as us.

    I have been traing for about 20 years. The books i have accumlated over the years are: The Arnold Encyclpedia of Modern body building Had that for about 17 years. The atkins diet book. And Body for life for about 2 years. It is out on loan for about the 4th or 5th time.

    I am not looking for a magic pill and have never shied away from hard work in my life.

    If you do not want to talk about this stack please
    write your post in my thread in the diet section. This has really gotten off topic. But your advice and that of others will be welcome over at that thread.
    This is not a put down bro but a smack in the face of reality.

    WHo cares where you are or what you are doing. I don't want to hear you were caring for a sick relative in another country or any other excuse. There is alot of fish and seafood in the Thai diet. I am in Thailand every year, several times. If you were ever the hardest working guy in the gym you would not be 300 lbs. BS that Thais dont work hard. I work out with a few Muay Thai fighters that would love to hear you say that to their face. You may believe your excuses but none of us do. It is one thing to own the books, it is another to put them to practice. If you truely read and learned from body for life, you wouldn't be trying to sell this sack of crap excuses.

    You will not get cycle advice from anyone knowledgable here as you are not ready for it. You have gotten alot of good advice from several members here but refuse to listen as you do not want to hear the real answer. You are fat and no medicine will change that, only hard work. Real hardwork, not just your claims to be the hardest worker in the gym. Now save duplicating these BS threads and do something about your body!!!!! Stop making excuses!!!!Take our advice or stay fat, the next step is up to you.
    Last edited by toolman; 01-23-2006 at 06:48 PM.

  27. #27
    samjams is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolman
    This is not a put down bro but a smack in the face of reality.

    WHo cares where you are or what you are doing. I don't want to hear you were caring for a sick relative in another country or any other excuse. There is alot of fish and seafood in the Thai diet. I am in Thailand every year, several times. If you were ever the hardest working guy in the gym you would not be 300 lbs. BS that Thais dont work hard. I work out with a few Muay Thai fighters that would love to hear you say that to their face. You may believe your excuses but none of us do. It is one thing to own the books, it is another to put them to practice. If you truely read and learned from body for life, you wouldn't be trying to sell this sack of crap excuses.

    You will not get cycle advice from anyone knowledgable here as you are not ready for it. You have gotten alot of good advice from several members here but refuse to listen as you do not want to hear the real answer. You are fat and no medicine will change that, only hard work. Real hardwork, not just your claims to be the hardest worker in the gym. Now save duplicating these BS threads and do something about your body!!!!! Stop making excuses!!!!Take our advice or stay fat, the next step is up to you.

    Thanks for not adding any of your views to to my new thread in manner in which you were invited. Very non-constructive. And the next time you are in Thailand you and your mauy thai friends can go visit you favorite Media Starlet . The former Mauy thai champ turned Lady boy.

    The fact is You don't know me or how hard I work out. You were not in the hotel gyms I was working out in and viewing the gym users. And i never compared myself to gym goers here in the USA.

    With all the other boards out there you would think I could find one where members could stay on topic.

    Was this thread placed in the right section for stack discussions???

    Didn't I start a thread in the diet section for all you guys that wanted to give me well needed advice on diet and exercise??? Isn't that the right place for that type of thread.

    Last what is wrong with discussing this stack in general???


    U Baaaa mak mai

    Sawadee krap

    Good day sir!!!

  28. #28
    toolman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by samjams
    Thanks for not adding any of your views to to my new thread in manner in which you were invited. Very non-constructive. And the next time you are in Thailand you and your mauy thai friends can go visit you favorite Media Starlet . The former Mauy thai champ turned Lady boy.

    The fact is You don't know me or how hard I work out. You were not in the hotel gyms I was working out in and viewing the gym users. And i never compared myself to gym goers here in the USA.

    With all the other boards out there you would think I could find one where members could stay on topic.

    Was this thread placed in the right section for stack discussions???

    Didn't I start a thread in the diet section for all you guys that wanted to give me well needed advice on diet and exercise??? Isn't that the right place for that type of thread.

    Last what is wrong with discussing this stack in general???


    U Baaaa mak mai

    Sawadee krap

    Good day sir!!!
    I give up with you bro. You redefine thick. One fighter swings the other way and you think you, a 300 lb admittedly overweight guy works harder than all of the muay thai fighters... Right, like anyone would buy the bill of goods you have obviously sold yourself. You don't get your size working out and living a clean life style, you get that way in the beer bars shopping for nightly entertainment...not that there is anything wrong with that diversion from time to time : Sorry to say but there are no changes in sight for you with your thinking. Good luck and I hope you learn the right way since the only one that will ever offer a grossly overweight guy cycle advice is not worth listening to.

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