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  1. #1
    Auto54 is offline Member
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    HCG/Clomid while ON CYCLE

    OK Thought I was clear on this, but a recent thread has me more confused again. So please, go ahead and straighten me out here.

    Reference Clomid, Nolvadex , Proviron , and HGC. If running a stong cycle would you want to run these while -on- cycle or just keep it for PCT?

    I was thinking of running Clom, Nolva, and Prov at 50mg 3 days/week and HGC at 250iu 3 days/week while on cycle. Then 2000iu of HGC the last two weeks, then wait two weeks and start Clomid 100mg/ed for 5 days and then 50mg/ed for 9 days. Am I way off?

    Also, just to make sure my math is right... 250iu = .25cc, correct? And those two 2000iu shots... those will be 2ml shots?

    Thanks!!
    Last edited by Auto54; 01-24-2006 at 03:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Auto54 is offline Member
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    bump

  3. #3
    Massacre's Avatar
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    I understand maybe running HCG for testicle hytrophy by clomid?

    That's just dumb IMO.

  4. #4
    Auto54 is offline Member
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    That is what I was starting to think. But I saw several posts that said to have Clomid "on hand" during the cycle so I was getting confused.

    So Nolva & Prov at 50mg 3 days/week and HGC at 250iu 3 days/week while on cycle sound good?

    Then up the HGC the last 2 weeks... and go to Clomid PCT? Or should I add Clomid/Nolva combo for the PCT? Or something else all together?

  5. #5
    Icthruyou is offline New Member
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    The only time you should run any of that is if your getting pains in your nipples and stuff. I little pain here and there is ok, but if its nonstop run a little nolvadex . No need for the HCG if your on teste, its when you stop the teste when you need it.

  6. #6
    Auto54 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icthruyou
    The only time you should run any of that is if your getting pains in your nipples and stuff. I little pain here and there is ok, but if its nonstop run a little nolvadex. No need for the HCG if your on teste, its when you stop the teste when you need it.
    So you are saying no anti-e's and no hgc??? There are like 1000 posts saying something different than that. UGH! Where is a wall that I can bang my head against? LOL!

  7. #7
    Kale is offline ~ Vet~ I like Thai Girls
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copperhead947
    So you are saying no anti-e's and no hgc??? There are like 1000 posts saying something different than that. UGH! Where is a wall that I can bang my head against? LOL!
    Forget what he said, its crap !

    You have Nolvadex on hand during the cycle if you get sides. You cam take it ED at 10-20mg ED if you want to be asolutely safe. Some do, some dont. HCG is used during the cycle (not PCT) to maintain ball size. 250IU twice a week is a good dose for that. PCT will consist of 100mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex for 30 days. You can add in 0.25 mg ED of Arimidex too if you want.

  8. #8
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    Sometimes the advice on here is scary-bad.

    Kale has it right. I'd only add that arimidex (L-Dex or Liquidex)
    could be a nice addition during your cycle if you are concerned about
    some of the sides. It won't help with gyno, once it has shown up like Nolva would. But its a nice anti-bloat measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kale
    Forget what he said, its crap !

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale
    Forget what he said, its crap !

    You have Nolvadex on hand during the cycle if you get sides. You cam take it ED at 10-20mg ED if you want to be asolutely safe. Some do, some dont. HCG is used during the cycle (not PCT) to maintain ball size. 250IU twice a week is a good dose for that. PCT will consist of 100mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex for 30 days. You can add in 0.25 mg ED of Arimidex too if you want.
    HCG can be used during PCT. I do this as I do not want to get the sides Clomid brings with it. EmotionaL issues are something I wish to avoid, whilst blurry vision I MUST avoid as I'm blind in one eye. So blurry vision could really affect me greatly.

    HCG for PCT does work. I got my bloodwork back today and my natural testosterone levels are higher than normal. I finished PCT 3 weeks ago.

    I run HCG/Nolva/Proviron for PCT to great effect.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto
    HCG can be used during PCT. I do this as I do not want to get the sides Clomid brings with it. EmotionaL issues are something I wish to avoid, whilst blurry vision I MUST avoid as I'm blind in one eye. So blurry vision could really affect me greatly.

    HCG for PCT does work. I got my bloodwork back today and my natural testosterone levels are higher than normal. I finished PCT 3 weeks ago.

    I run HCG/Nolva/Proviron for PCT to great effect.
    Ezactly what I was going to say- yes hcg can be used for pct actually it has to be with genetics natty test levels shut down between 4-6 weeks depending on genetics like i just said, so what happens to your balls after the hcg is gone and you do another 5-10 more weeks of test-well the answer is your natty test level shuts down again-sometime i have to use two kits of hcg for pct

  11. #11
    Auto54 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale
    Forget what he said, its crap !

    You have Nolvadex on hand during the cycle if you get sides. You cam take it ED at 10-20mg ED if you want to be asolutely safe. Some do, some dont. HCG is used during the cycle (not PCT) to maintain ball size. 250IU twice a week is a good dose for that. PCT will consist of 100mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex for 30 days. You can add in 0.25 mg ED of Arimidex too if you want.
    THANKS!!

    That totally fits with everything I've been reading and researching!

    I think I'm going to do HGC while on cycle and some Nolva and Prov to be safe. Then I'll end w/ HGC and go into Clomid to finish out PCT.

    Dang, Arim is $$$!!! I got a lil Propecia, too. So I don't think I'll have any cash left over for Arim. Dang, spend more on the sides than I did the actual gear! Oh well, cost of doing it right.

    Thanks again!

  12. #12
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    nolvadex during cycle is enough blocks estrogen completely, arimidex is for preventive measures if you have never had a gyno problem, but if gyno arises go staight to nolvadex it will go away in two days. Now dont take nolvadex if you are taking winstrol , becaucse it will block the effects of the winstrol, and hcg and clomid is enough for pct

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copperhead947
    THANKS!!

    That totally fits with everything I've been reading and researching!

    I think I'm going to do HGC while on cycle and some Nolva and Prov to be safe. Then I'll end w/ HGC and go into Clomid to finish out PCT.

    Dang, Arim is $$$!!! I got a lil Propecia, too. So I don't think I'll have any cash left over for Arim. Dang, spend more on the sides than I did the actual gear! Oh well, cost of doing it right.

    Thanks again!
    nolva/proviron is a very wise choice and will control your estrogen very well and keep bloat down....the hcg can be used at the end of cycle to bring back small nuts...but you are also smart for running it during cycle to prevent this from ever happening! pct should be nolva @40mg/ed and clomid@100mg/ed and you should be well on your way to recovery and keep your gains

    and liquidex is arimidex ...it can be purchased as a research chemical from the banner in the upper right hand corner but you should be alright with the proviron and nolva!

    best of luck to you

    p.s. dont listen to people that say stuff like this
    Originally Posted by Icthruyou
    The only time you should run any of that is if your getting pains in your nipples and stuff. I little pain here and there is ok, but if its nonstop run a little nolvadex . No need for the HCG if your on teste, its when you stop the teste when you need it.


    there was a thread about bad advice a few days ago! why are people still giving it

  14. #14
    Auto54 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR.SHRED
    Now dont take nolvadex if you are taking winstrol, becaucse it will block the effects of the winstrol, and hcg and clomid is enough for pct
    Ahh, didn't know that. That's the first I've seen that one. Anyone care to confirm or deny? I'm already planning a second 12 week cycle and I was thinking of doing Winny the last 6 weeks. So just drop the Nolva after week 5???

    Quote Originally Posted by Anabolios
    nolva/proviron is a very wise choice and will control your estrogen very well and keep bloat down....the hcg can be used at the end of cycle to bring back small nuts...but you are also smart for running it during cycle to prevent this from ever happening! pct should be nolva @40mg/ed and clomid@100mg/ed and you should be well on your way to recovery and keep your gains

    and liquidex is arimidex ...it can be purchased as a research chemical from the banner in the upper right hand corner but you should be alright with the proviron and nolva!

    best of luck to you
    Sounds good! I was thinking of adding some Nolva to my PCT as well as the Clom anyway. And I saw the Arim stuff. But I think I'll go with this plan first. Got it!
    Last edited by Auto54; 01-24-2006 at 04:56 PM.

  15. #15
    panasonicbike is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copperhead947
    That is what I was starting to think. But I saw several posts that said to have Clomid "on hand" during the cycle so I was getting confused.

    So Nolva & Prov at 50mg 3 days/week and HGC at 250iu 3 days/week while on cycle sound good?

    Then up the HGC the last 2 weeks... and go to Clomid PCT? Or should I add Clomid/Nolva combo for the PCT? Or something else all together?
    Dont run the clomid until two weeks after the last injection.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR.SHRED
    nolvadex during cycle is enough blocks estrogen completely, arimidex is for preventive measures if you have never had a gyno problem, but if gyno arises go staight to nolvadex it will go away in two days. Now dont take nolvadex if you are taking winstrol, becaucse it will block the effects of the winstrol, and hcg and clomid is enough for pct
    Please elaborate.

  17. #17
    Kale is offline ~ Vet~ I like Thai Girls
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto
    HCG can be used during PCT. I do this as I do not want to get the sides Clomid brings with it. EmotionaL issues are something I wish to avoid, whilst blurry vision I MUST avoid as I'm blind in one eye. So blurry vision could really affect me greatly.

    HCG for PCT does work. I got my bloodwork back today and my natural testosterone levels are higher than normal. I finished PCT 3 weeks ago.

    I run HCG/Nolva/Proviron for PCT to great effect.
    Have a read of this guys

    This is from a poster who is an MD and uses gear himself. it is a protocol for using HCG during cycle and not PCT, he explains why HCG during PCT can actually inhibit natural test production and recovery.



    "I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

    Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

    If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn?t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn?t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

    The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM?s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

    I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a ?bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can?t ?fool? the body?it is smarter than you are.

    I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground?and we don?t want that, do we?).

    All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

    Thought this would shed a little light on all the HCG questions during cycle."

  18. #18
    Auto54 is offline Member
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    Thanks Kale! That makes a lot of sense w/ everything I've read about the compounds!

    So anyone have any other input on the nolvadex /winstrol combo mentioned above? And problems w/ the two together??

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