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  1. #1
    klepp1214 is offline Registered User
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    2nd Cycle Critique/help please!

    Spring is coming, and id like to chip away at the fat my first cycle left me with due to a bad diet! Last cycle was meant to be a bulker, my first cycle.. put on about 20 pounds at the height of it, but lost nearly all of it due to neglect which i regret. Nonetheless ive picked apart my mistakes and wont make em a second time!

    So.. im starting out at 5'10 186 pounds and im taking a guess at 14-15% bodyfat...i know that sounds small but im a very small boned guy, was born premature and was less than 150 pounds through highschool =p They say 9% or so is seeing abs territory right? i can see them but only faintly and only the top 2 or so =p

    Anyhow, i intend on a low calorie, low carb, high protien diet..
    hopefully i can put on a small amount of muscle and drop a larger amount of fat!

    My first cycle was 3/4 CC of sustanon250 EoD which comes out to like 612mg a week'ish i believe for 14 weeks and for the first 5 i was on Superdrol.

    For this cycle what i have planned (completely open to critique and suggestions) is around the same amount of test (this time BD Test-E i wasnt too impressed w/ the sustanon that is available to me plus less frequent injections as far as that goes) and injectable Winstrol .

    Firstly, im unsure how much Winstrol i should take so i could use some advice, what i gather is 50mg a day is usually the norm? Do i really need to inject it daily or is that just a preference?

    Also if im cutting, aside from dropping my calories to about 1600 a day, cardio is usually part of a good cutting regimen right? thing im worried about is Anabolic steroids tend to raise your BP and put strain on your heart, and i definetely noticed being winded easier when i was on the sust. So is it safe for me to do cardio while on a cutting cycle?

    Oh, i also found im super gyno prone so ill be taking 20mg of nolva daily and throughout pct which will probably be the standard clomid/nolva... this time probably with clen as well seeing as though im dissapointed in the fat i gained post cycle last time!

    Any ideas/advice/suggestions/expectations/substatutes? I know this is alot to ask but this is also my best most reliable source of honest information!

    ill run the test for probably a good 12-14 weeks, and the winstrol, i know it has a short half life so thats able to be ran up until the end or do i have to stop it short of the test like you would deca ?

    thanks!

  2. #2
    taiboxa's Avatar
    taiboxa is offline "Vanity Redefined" ~VET~
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    BRO not to hammer you but you have more questions about diet/cardio than you do about gear.. i say this w/ all due respect.. train natty hard core for a while FOCUS ON DIET and i mean RESEARCH IT .. every nutrient has its role. cardio is crucial as well and i can see abs outlined at 10-12% on most individuals so i would say u might be 12-13 if u kan see top outlined.

    as far as cycle i can tell ur not quite redy for it, though most people do it anyways. goto the diet section then the weight lifting section of this forum and research and ask as many questions as you can before you ever poke yourself GOOD LUCK and Happy Huntin

  3. #3
    taiboxa's Avatar
    taiboxa is offline "Vanity Redefined" ~VET~
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    oh and drink the winny if u do it >< and dont use deca and i really advise that you do JUST TEST for your first REAL cycle after you understand the importance of diet *(which is morethan 80% of it even w/ gear)*

  4. #4
    klepp1214 is offline Registered User
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    appreciate the advice a ton! however, maybe i came off as a bit under educated but its quite the contrary. Up until my last cycle (first one) ive trained natural on and off for about 5 years, at first my focus was just to be lean/fit... in the end, i was around 170 pounds and 6.5% bodyfat. This was while on a approx 1800 calorie a day diet, doing 45 minutes of cardio daily post weight training. That time however, i was taking in far too many carbs and sugars, fighting to keep fat intake low so i probably hindered alot of the gains i could have had fighting for protien vs fat. At that time i didnt really have any insight into the seperation of fats and carb's.

    Out of curiousity, what in my post made it seem as if i was a "newb" for lack of a better word? This is only my second cycle, and my first was plain ole test and meant to bulk, so this is my first cutting cycle therefore ive never used winstrol .. i only know what ive researched which can tend to be outddated so i came here for some "real" world advice. Alot of friends tell me to take winstrol tabs, howevber from what i gather, they arent nearly as effective. Ive also had the "do fina" to cut ect. Thats a bit harder than id like to go right now. So i was just here trying to feel out if test e and winstrol was a good base for a cutter. As well as get an idea of what dosages/options were vs what alot of others use or have used. My first cycle crashed due to work slamming us with 60 hours a week, which in turn took away alot of my energy and time... which in turn meant i cooked less, ate less, and ate less healthy. Proper pct was used and im pretty back to normal downtown, or close to it. I didnt have this planned for another 2 months (april) And yes, i will do it anyway =) just rather do it with some options/foresight from real people other than what ive read!

  5. #5
    klepp1214 is offline Registered User
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    and no i wouldnt use deca for a cutter! and drinking winstrol .. now that you mention it, ive heard of this, however wouldnt the digestive system kind of break down some of it? I konw its water based as opposed to test being oil based but.. you cant drink test ya know *shrug*

  6. #6
    taiboxa's Avatar
    taiboxa is offline "Vanity Redefined" ~VET~
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    actually as for the win i have found bd tabs to be just if not more efffective than injectible..

    if ur going to do it.. go w/ just TESTE 500mg/wk split into two shots 3.5days apart and run it for about 12 weeks or so then use a proper pct and see how that works for ya next cycle add a compound or something

    win is over rated and too harsh on the body for the gains it warrants IMO its krap

  7. #7
    klepp1214 is offline Registered User
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    yea i had just read that in order to get an equal amount of winstrol tabs daily, you would basically spend alot more money seeing as though the tabs come in 2mg and taking 25 a day would not only be approx 25 bucks but harsh on the digestive process. Yes i had planned on shooting the test mon mornings and thurs nights and i had actually planned on doing 600mg a week seeing as though i did approx that w/ sustanon . Ive read that alot of folks dont gain if they dont do atleast as much as they did previous cycle(s) of course this could all be speculation =p The reason im questioning adding winstrol is A) just because i only did test the first time and B) because i am planning on cutting and from what i hear it hardens you up nicely. I also heard it dries out your joints fairly bad as well. Regardless i dont want to get off subject but thanks again for the reply. After i get my cycle sorted i intend on jousting with ideas in the diet forums, i know alot of folks have different belief's as far as that goes as well, so personal experience is the best to ensure i dont waste another cycle =p

  8. #8
    taiboxa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klepp1214
    yea i had just read that in order to get an equal amount of winstrol tabs daily, you would basically spend alot more money seeing as though the tabs come in 2mg and taking 25 a day would not only be approx 25 bucks but harsh on the digestive process. Yes i had planned on shooting the test mon mornings and thurs nights and i had actually planned on doing 600mg a week seeing as though i did approx that w/ sustanon. Ive read that alot of folks dont gain if they dont do atleast as much as they did previous cycle(s) of course this could all be speculation =p The reason im questioning adding winstrol is A) just because i only did test the first time and B) because i am planning on cutting and from what i hear it hardens you up nicely. I also heard it dries out your joints fairly bad as well. Regardless i dont want to get off subject but thanks again for the reply. After i get my cycle sorted i intend on jousting with ideas in the diet forums, i know alot of folks have different belief's as far as that goes as well, so personal experience is the best to ensure i dont waste another cycle =p
    actually my last cycle was a monster.. and right now im running BABY Doses compared to my previou and im making good gains.. its all diet.
    i would say use OT or Var instead of win for sure. I just dnot like win its gains are krap compared to the sides and i feel that there are way betta alternatives out there.

  9. #9
    klepp1214 is offline Registered User
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    thanks Tai, this is some of what i was looking for, experiences+alternitaves if there are better options. OT (oral turanabol?) Anavar is an idea, although oral which means rough on liver, as well as lethargy (atleast thats def what ig ot from SD) I can probably get anavar easier than winstrol however. If i were to to Test+var for my cutter.. how much anavar daily is standard?

  10. #10
    taiboxa's Avatar
    taiboxa is offline "Vanity Redefined" ~VET~
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    Quote Originally Posted by klepp1214
    thanks Tai, this is some of what i was looking for, experiences+alternitaves if there are better options. OT (oral turanabol?) Anavar is an idea, although oral which means rough on liver, as well as lethargy (atleast thats def what ig ot from SD) I can probably get anavar easier than winstrol however. If i were to to Test+var for my cutter.. how much anavar daily is standard?
    injectable win = 17aa = oral = liver rape.
    so yeah infact you can run var longer than win since var is much more mild on the body infact its what i give my girlfriend.

    i havnt used OT yet but yes oral turn. is supposedly a hybrid between var and dbol .. better for mass than var but more for cutting than bulking i dunno still dont know how i really fill about it till i run it here in a month or so.

  11. #11
    klepp1214 is offline Registered User
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    good deal! that OT doesnt sound so bad, maybe ill do some research on that. I just wanted to get a good feel on what people were doing for cutting cycles and put my idea out there. Id love to bulk again w/ a test/deca /dbol stack but id rather not add more flab than needed for the summer and i know ill bloat from some of that.

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