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  1. #1
    Hard Head's Avatar
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    First Cycle, Frontload or Kickstart?

    1st cycle test e 500 or 600mg/wk + Arimidex 1mg/ed 12 weeks? 43yrs, 270 lb. couple of years training hard. goals, mass + strength + minimal water retention

    Frontload the test e for the first 2 shots or kickstart the cycle with 80mg Tbol/ed x 4 weeks?

    Then the question is when to add the GH? Now (1st cycle) or when?

    I'm thinking test only (plus either the frontload or kickstart) for the first time. Adding the GH after PCT to kick in with my 2nd cycle for the fall.

  2. #2
    Kale is offline ~ Vet~ I like Thai Girls
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    First cycle just stick with the Test E at 500mg for 12 weeks.Leave all the other junk for another cycle. Split in into two shots Monday and Thursday. Start the GH when you start PCT

  3. #3
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    ditto

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Head
    I'm thinking test only (plus either the frontload or kickstart) for the first time. Adding the GH after PCT to kick in with my 2nd cycle for the fall.

    For the first time around HH stick to the advice of others that already posted and go with a test only.

    Dont start the GH too soon after PCT b/c you're going to need about 4 months off after this 12 weeker plus 3 or 4 weeks for PCT. Start it 2 months before your next cycle, depending on goal of course....

    So what are your primary goals? I'm not sure of your BF% but at 43 and 270 I doubt you want to get any bigger. I'll let you answer that buddy.

  5. #5
    Hard Head's Avatar
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    OK, so the test only x 12 weeks is fine. No frontload. I'm down with all of that incl. PCT. I also hear you on the start date on the GH but am not sure why. I'll take that into a seperate thread if needed.

    Are you all saying to skip the AI (ldex)? I'm trying not to puff up while growing.

    Primary goals? Well, not to gain lbs but if I can add 30 lbs of lean mass, and drop 30 excess pounds, within the next year, I'd be very pleased. I'd hope to be quite hard and lean (around 8-10%) at that point but not contest shredded (no desire there) plus be able to hold on to the added muscle mass (I know, that's diet and training + GH). I'd like to look like Branch from the cover of MD a couple of months ago but in reality don't feel the need to be that lean since I am not competing. Also, I'm 6-1 and endo-meso, if that matters. Cardio is included in my training regimen, 4 days resistance + cardio 5x week.

    I'm in decent shape but feel myself slipping away from the physicality that I crave as my natty hormone levels decline. Well, that's not entirely accurate as I'm also really wanting to bump up the level of my performance ability and physicality, carry sufficient muscle/bone mass/density into and throughout the next 35+ years.
    Last edited by Hard Head; 01-31-2006 at 11:27 AM.

  6. #6
    SPIKE's Avatar
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    Goals should always be both practical and attainable. A 60lb. turnaround is definitely possible but I dont know if you're giving yourself enough time with 1 year. Plenty of stats that say 8-9lbs. of pure dense muscle can be achieved in one year Naturally. Obviously that number will rise with the aid of AAS but 30lbs. is quite high.

    I can honestly say that I've worked with over 100 people in the past 6 years and know what everyone is capable of (granted your healthy and motivated). As of now I think you should concentrate on your 12 week cycle.

    When exactly are you thinking about starting? I like to start mg GH 1-2 months prior to AAS to build up sufficient IGF levels. That way you can get more of a synergistic effect even with only Test.

  7. #7
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    Jayhova is right. You shouldn't front load your cycle. Just run the test by itself.

  8. #8
    Hard Head's Avatar
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    I didn't look at it like a 60 lb turnaround but I suppose you are correct therein. I will not be able to gain 6-8 lbs a year of lean MM on my LOW natty T+GH levels (due mostly to anti cholinergic drugs I take for allergies) . I would be thrilled with that 60 lb turnaround if I could accomplish it in a year, or two even. I was expecting 20 lbs of lean gain after pct, is this unrealistic? At this point I am totally focused on the upcoming cycle and the training. Bloodwork is done, Endo lined up, etc.

    I was planning to start in Feb. with the test. I was really leaning towards the GH but I need to start simple and work up from there. I'll add the GH when appropriate, but not this month.

  9. #9
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    See how your body responds to you injecting an endogenous synthetic testosterone into your body first. Then try frontloading techniques and possibly kickstarting with other compounds for future cycles.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Head
    I was expecting 20 lbs of lean gain after pct, is this unrealistic?
    Unrealistic no, attainable..............maybe. Obviously you know at that age it gets harder and harder. Take Swifts great advice and use this first run as a guideline in seeing how your Body reacts. Then worry about GH and combining other gear.

    Think about it.................20 lean pounds in 12 weeks?? That's a whole lot of LBM in just 3 months. This is your first cycle and you will react best but use this more as a reference point. Dont think about it as something that is going to put on massive amounts of LBM in a few months.

    Glad to see you're getting bloodwork done. Seems like you're doing everything right..........

  11. #11
    Hard Head's Avatar
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    Well, we'll see how this goes. I will take the advice offered here. This run will be my baseline.

    Thanks all.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Head
    1st cycle test e 500 or 600mg/wk + Arimidex 1mg/ed 12 weeks? 43yrs, 270 lb. couple of years training hard. goals, mass + strength + minimal water retention

    Frontload the test e for the first 2 shots or kickstart the cycle with 80mg Tbol/ed x 4 weeks?

    Then the question is when to add the GH? Now (1st cycle) or when?

    I'm thinking test only (plus either the frontload or kickstart) for the first time. Adding the GH after PCT to kick in with my 2nd cycle for the fall.
    You will see the best gains from the GH while using anabolics. At your age also it would be a great addition to the cycle. Plus the GH would also help you recover a lot quicker. It will take a few months to get IGF levels up from the GH to see results so you might be running the GH later.

    Just run the test and also drop the arimidex to .25mg ED. 1mg ED is a lot and might be a waste.

  13. #13
    Hard Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMudMan

    Just run the test and also drop the arimidex to .25mg ED. 1mg ED is a lot and might be a waste.

    The Arimidex comes in 1mg tabs from my pharmacy. Do I need to split them into 1/2's or 1/4's? Can I take 1mg/eod instead? There is always ARR's ldex if I need to.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale
    First cycle just stick with the Test E at 500mg for 12 weeks.Leave all the other junk for another cycle. Split in into two shots Monday and Thursday. Start GH PCT
    .25 is standard so 1/4ths.

    Hey Kale,

    Why not inject on Tue & Fri or Wed & Sat?

    Gold

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