My ideas for 1st cycle, please help

**plornive** · 05-24-2002, 04:37 PM

BRIEF HISTORY:
I am 23, 5'10", 165 lbs, 8% bf, trained for 3.5 years (natural). In my first 1.5 years of training, I went from 135 lbs to 195 lbs. I lifted 1.5 hours 6 days per week and officially "overtrained", but seemed to grow regardless. I was benching 275, but was also at a very high fat %. I went on a massive cutting cycle and got to <160, and have been stepping up and down since. I have not gained in strength, but I have added size and development to my traps, shoulders and lats especially. My chest is much more developed looking, too. My fascia are probably a bit more stretched than my current muscle mass.

GOALS:
I want to put on ~20 pounds of muscle with as little sides as possible (ok, I'll settle for 15 lbs if its extremely lean an non-suppressive). I want it to be as clean of a bulk as possible, possibly no fat gain. I also want to add some significant strength, but this is second priority. I would like to work on developlment and striations, too, but I am content to wait for another cycle to do that. As a sidenote, I am very paranoid about gyno. I want to absolutely avoid it at all costs.

CURRENT IDEAS:
(Remember that I am trying to avoid gyno and fat gain)
I am thinking of these stacks:

stack 1:
week 4-11: anavar 40mg/day
week 1-9: boldenone inject 200mg every 5 days
week 1-11: liquidex .25-.5mg (how much???)
arimidex + nolvadex (tapered) postcycle

stack 2:
week 4-10: stanazolol 50mg/day
week 1-8: boldenone inject 200mg every 5 days
week 1-11: liquidex .25-.5mg (how much???)
arimidex + nolvadex (tapered) postcycle

stack 3:
week 1-8: anavar 40mg/day
week 4-8: stanazolol 50mg/day
arimidex + nolvadex (tapered) postcycle

stack 4:
week 4-11: anavar 40mg/day
week 1-9: primobolan
week 1-11: liquidex .25-.5mg (how much???)
arimidex + nolvadex (tapered) postcycle

I have access to almost any steroid legally (over-the-counter). I don't want to use aromatizing steroids , so I chose boldenone or primobolan as a massing steroid (less estrogen issues) and plan to use lots of arimidex. Is gyno still a risk with boldenone if I use arimidex? I am also thinking of using HCG during the cycle to minimize test suppression. That way I won't be likely to have estrogen backlash...

Basically, I'm just looking for people to tell me what they think I should do. Have an idea for me? Post it, even if it is totally different from my ideas. I don't really know what I'm doing. Thanks a lot for any ideas, sorry it was so long.

**plornive** · 05-24-2002, 04:45 PM

One thing to add:
My diet is in check, and I know what carbs give me the best recovery/energy, what macronutrient ratios work for me, etc.
My training is pretty good. I have used periodization lately with GVT mixed with heavier training. This has worked somewhat well, but I plan to do almost exclusively compound movements with low reps during the cycle. I don't neglect any part of my body except I don't isolate my calves.

G-S · 05-24-2002, 04:47 PM

20 lbs? Keepable? Add some test in those stacks.

**plornive** · 05-24-2002, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Gettin Stupid
20 lbs? Keepable? Add some test in those stacks.

Point noted.

I also want to avoid gyno like the plague. If there is a conflict of interest, I'll take less gains and lower risk of gyno.

**big N** · 05-24-2002, 04:54 PM

try this .
1-10 300 mg eq
1-10 3-400 mg test(testoviron )
1-4 30 mg var
8-12 50 mg winny eod or ed.
this should be awesome for u.

**Pete235** · 05-24-2002, 04:55 PM

This should give you 15lbs (maaaayyybbeeeee 20lbs) that will be keepable:

weeks 1-10 EQ @ 400mg/week
weeks 1-10 test prop @ 100mg/EOD
weeks 4-10 winstrol @ 50mg/day
weeks 1-10 arimidex (or liquidex) @ .5mg/day
week 12 clomid 300mg/day 1, 100mg/day x 10 days, 50mg/day x 10 days

**Pete235** · 05-24-2002, 04:56 PM

Sorry BigN....you got here first. But, the stacks are quite similar

**big N** · 05-24-2002, 05:30 PM

its cool peet it shows ya that we are knowledgeable

,i thought of the prop but since hes a newby i didnt think hed be into all the injections.var in the beggining to kickstart his strength and the winny to add to the hardness cut and help keep gains .

**Pete235** · 05-24-2002, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by big N
i thought of the prop but since hes a newby i didnt think hed be into all the injections.

Good point!

**plornive** · 05-24-2002, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by big N
try this .
1-10 300 mg eq
1-10 3-400 mg test(testoviron )
1-4 30 mg var
8-12 50 mg winny eod or ed.
this should be awesome for u.

Thanks. 2 questions on this stack:
1. Would it be beneficial to use HCG at any point to minimize shutdown of endogenous test?
2. What is the risk of gyno? How much estrogen related sides should I be worried about if I use liquidex at .5mg/day? Should/can I use 1mg/day?

For some reason I'm scared shitless of anything that aromatizes. I'm not afraid of needles, though. Are there any stacks that would allow me a smaller gain but would have very low aromatization issues? Or is this such a low dose of test that it won't be too bad?

**big N** · 05-24-2002, 07:17 PM

on your first question,no u dont need hcg thats used at end of long and heavy cycles,just do your clomid.
the risk of gyno is very low but then again dpends on how pron e u are to it.i put this together considering all the facts ,var very very rarely aromatizes if at all,eq very slightly ,winny the same as the var just about ,and the test will a little bit.the dosage su are running are adaquit.so considering your not prone to gyno u should have no probelem,but do have the anties on hand ,take them only when u see the symptoms.u should be ok bro with this test or else u can take prop wich is the safest test thats if u dont mind the eod injections.

**plornive** · 05-24-2002, 07:49 PM

Ok. I am definitely considering doing the eq, test prop, var, winny cycle, but does anyone have a cycle that doesn't include test? My goal of 15-20 lbs is not absolutely necessary.

**Pete235** · 05-25-2002, 06:40 AM

Why not test?

**Iwan2bsolid2** · 05-25-2002, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by plornive
Ok. I am definitely considering doing the eq, test prop, var, winny cycle, but does anyone have a cycle that doesn't include test? My goal of 15-20 lbs is not absolutely necessary.

Is this Plornive from elite? Bro, the first cycle your listed would probably be my choice. I would however up the EQ to 400mg/wk. I can tell your timid of taking Test, and that is understandable because I'm sensitive to it, even with Liquidex. Those cycle's proposed by Pete and BigN are excellent cycle's but remember this is your 1st cycle and that would require alot of poking and ED injections which IMO would not be fun for a novice. I think that off of the 1st cycle you listed you could come close to reaching your goal as long as diet, training, rest are all in check...but again up the EQ, and you might think of running the anavar throughout the whole cycle from day 1, since the EQ takes about 4 weeks to really kick in. That way you'll get the increased strength gain right off the bat- and start shocking those muscles into growth. From posts that I've read of your's over at Elite, I know that you a knowledgeable in those area's so you should do just fine. Let me know what you decide on.

SOLID

**plornive** · 05-25-2002, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Iwan2bsolid2
Is this Plornive from elite?

That's me.

Yeah, I am not excited to take test right away. I want to be conservative and use substances with low risk for gyno. I could increase the EQ to 400mg per week. I could switch it to 2 200mg injections per week, and I'm not queemish about needles. I will probably do the first cycle.

I have it planned out so I will have relatively little stress, lots of time to sleep and train, and a lifting partner who will also be juicing for his first time.

**plornive** · 05-25-2002, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Pete235
Why not test?

I want to minimize my risk for gyno.
BTW I am still kind of considering doing test, but want to hear other options. Thanks for your advice big N and Pete235.

**Iwan2bsolid2** · 05-25-2002, 11:00 AM

I was thinking of doing the exact same cycle, you could also add some Proviron to the mix to help with sex drive once natural T- levels begin to shut down, and will also keep from any Aromitization.