05-27-2002, 10:22 AM #1Donating Member
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- Mar 2002
Clomid vs Nolvadex how are they different?
Clomid vs Nolvadex how are they different? (Post #1)
Here is the read on Clomid. below this is the Nolvadex, How are they different??????????
by Bill Roberts - Clomid is the anti-estrogen of choice for improving recovery of natural testosterone production after a cycle, improving testosterone production of endurance athletes, and is also effective in reducing risk of gynecomastia during a cycle employing aromatizable steroids .
While it has been claimed that Clomid "stimulates" production of LH and therefore of testosterone, in fact Clomid’s activity is achieved not by stimulation of the hypothalamus and pituitary, but by blocking their inhibition by estrogen.
Clomid is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist (activator/blocker) which, when bound to the estrogen receptor, puts it in a somewhat different conformation (shape) than does estradiol. The estrogen receptor requires binding of an estrogen or drug at its binding site and also the binding of any of several cofactors at different sites. Without the binding of the cofactor, the estrogen receptor is inactive. Different tissues use different cofactors. Some of these cofactors are able to bind to the estrogen receptor/Clomid complex, but others are blocked due to the change in shape. The result is that in some tissues Clomid acts as an antagonist -- the cofactor used in that tissue cannot bind and so the receptor remains inactive -- and in others Clomid acts as an agonist (activator), because the cofactors used in that tissue are able to bind.
Clomid is an effective antagonist in the hypothalamus and in breast tissue. It is an effective agonist in bone tissue, and for improving blood cholesterol.
Clomid also has the property of reducing the adverse effect of exercise-induced damage of muscle tissue. This is very significant for endurance athletes but is not very significant, if at all significant, with reasonable weight training. Clomid does not perceptibly affect gains of the weight trainer either favorably or adversely in my experience.
The drug seems to have estrogenic effects on mood, which can be beneficial (improving relationships with women by improving empathy) or can yield depression or PMS-like symptoms, but for most users there is no significant effect either way.
The claim that duration of intake should not exceed 10-14 days is incorrect. Clinical studies with male patients have been for periods of a year or longer. This error probably originates from the fact that, for use in women, due to the menstrual cycle there would obviously be no point in trying to stimulate ovulation all four weeks of the month. Thus, use in women is limited to 10-14 days. That limitation is not because of toxicity.
Clomid is in fact useful throughout a cycle if aromatizable drugs are being used. I do think however that to be conservative, one should use it no more than 2/3 of the time throughout the year or a little less.by Bill Roberts - Nolvadex is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate)
It is not correct that Nolvadex reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.
The claim that Nolvadex reduces gains should not be taken too seriously. The fact is that any number of bodybuilders have made excellent gains while using Nolvadex. The belief that it reduces gains seems to stem from the fact that the scientific literature reports a slight reduction in IGF-1 (individuals using anabolic steroids were not studied though) from use of Nolvadex. Thus, Dan Duchaine reported that it reduces IGF-1 and therefore reduces gains. However, if this effect exists at all, it must be very minor, due to the excellent gains that many have made, and from the fact that no one has noticed any such thing from Clomid, which has the same activity profile.
However, I would not be surprised if one were to tell a steroid user that Clomid reduced his gains, he would immediately become afraid that Clomid reduced his gains (please note that no one I have ever heard of has noticed this.) Not having been so misled, however, he would not conclude this from his results. But if an authority publishes that such an effect occurs, whether it does or not it can become self-fulfilling by biasing the user.
The fact that Nolvadex will reduce water retention may result in the user agreeing that gains are less, since weight gain is less, thus reinforcing the bias.
05-27-2002, 03:28 PM #2
um.. clomid brings back your natural test levls and has some antiestogenic propertys at the same time.nolvadex is used during a cycle when sighns of gyno appear.it is antiestrogen ,but does pretty much nothing to bring your test levels back.
05-27-2002, 03:37 PM #3Junior Member
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- May 2002
Androplex, since I am now getting signs of gyno and no longer have nolvadex , should I take the clomid I have on hand now untill I can get some more nolva? Or is just taking clomid fine? If so, how much ed.
05-27-2002, 03:43 PM #4Junior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- In Alberta's Oil Patch
I know most of you don't know me but I would take the clomid if you haven't any nolva at about 100mg ed until the sides dissappear which could take upwards of a week. My 2 cents.
05-27-2002, 03:48 PM #5Junior Member
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- May 2002
What does everyone else think about taking Clomid instead of nolva?
05-29-2002, 01:04 PM #6Donating Member
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- Mar 2002
I have a post on this forum that talkes about the difference between the two.
nolvadex may lower the IGF-1 level. I am doing hgh and trying to make my level go up. so nolvadex for me is out!
The doc has me doing clomid during cycle because its and anti -e too and does not lower the IGF-1 level. I think clomid is more for post cycle to bring back natural test levels. The anti e for test, and deca would be nolvadex but like I said I am taking hgh and the doc wants me on clomid instead.
bodine6, yes I would start taking the clomid. I am not sure what dosage to tell you to go with bro. I never faced gnyo (knock wood). This is just a guess, I would start with 300 mg first day, 100 next day, and 50 mg thereafter since you are seeing signs of gnyo (if thats what it is). I know you just started your cycle 5 days ago. If you are going to continue your cycle is another question I dont have the answer to so its hard to say the dosage of clomid. I am surprised that you are having gnyo this soon but it does not mean you are not. You are getting into an area that can get real serious fast and I dont want to say something that will be wrong. I would PM several trusted members on the board that you know well and asked them for their advice too.
Pls keep in mind that I am not a doctor and I have only used gear since Nov, 2001. I have read a lot and know my own condition and work close with my doctors on my case. I do think however that many here at AR that have used gear before have more knowledge in the use of ASS than many doctors and I very much value getting their opinion to round out my knowledge so I can make the best choice for my own body for my case.
If I thought I was getting gyno I would be talking to my doctor. I would think my doctor would test my estrogen level and put me on airimedex. I am not sure what the doctor would say about continue the rest of my gear? I know that when one stops test it can be more possible to get gyno problems at this time due potential of estrogen build up.
My best advice to you is if you think you are getting gnyo go to the doctor and tell him everything you have been taking and ask him what he thinks you should do. I had blood work done before I started taking gear and have follow up blood work done every 7 weeks. My estrogen level is about 20. They say when it gets above 70 is when you start worry about gyno but everyone body is different.
Go to the doctor bro.
05-29-2002, 03:13 PM #7
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