Do I need anti-estro for first cycle? Newbie...

**Newzabra** · 05-28-2002, 08:31 PM

Greetings Friends,

I've started my first cycle of 11 sus 250 and 8 deca 2ml. After my first 2 sus's injections I plan to mix the rest in a 4 day rotation (1 sus and 1 deca). my question is, do i need an anti-estro such as clomid to get off this novice cycle? Or should i wait for warning signs? I realize it's a weak first cycle but I am hoping to gauge future investments by this experience. Please forgive me if this question has been answered in other posts.

I'm 6'2" 220 lbs 15-20%bf 30yrs old

Thanks in Advance,

NewZabra

**bigkev** · 05-28-2002, 10:51 PM

keep nolvadex on hand in case symptoms of gyno arise, and have clomid for post cycle....always.

**Younger** · 05-28-2002, 10:55 PM

and to add to what big kev just said for your next cycle it good to have all you anti-estrogens etc.... before you start cycle that way you don't run the risk of needing them but not being able to get them in time if at all.

**bigkev** · 05-28-2002, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by Younger
and to add to what big kev just said for your next cycle it good to have all you anti-estrogens etc.... before you start cycle that way you don't run the risk of needing them but not being able to get them in time if at all.

very good point bro.

**Billmister** · 05-28-2002, 11:50 PM

i agree

**Ajax** · 05-29-2002, 02:14 AM

Q: What is Nolvadex / Arimidex / Liquidex / Proviron? How do I prevent gyno / bitch tits?

A: Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate), Arimidex / Liquidex (anastrozole) and Proviron (mesterlone) all act as anti-estrogens (sometimes called anti-e’s).

Estrogen is naturally found in the male body in small amounts, however, when taking certain steroids , an excess of estrogen can be created through a process called aromitization. This abnormally large concentration of estrogen can cause some undesirable side effects, such as enlargement of the breasts (commonly referred to as “gyno” or “bitch tits”), female pattern fat distribution and water retention. (Gyno can also be caused by higher concentrations of estrogen relative the your body’s level of testosterone , so gyno can be problem all the way through the end of Clomid therapy.)

Not all people who use steroids experience any estrogen related problems. Many people have taken many cycles at high dosages without using any anti-estrogens and have reported that they experienced no symptoms of gyno. Other people can take a small dose of steroids for one cycle and develop noticeable enlargement of the breast.

Estrogen can be blocked in two ways: you can block it from aromatizing, or you can block it from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body.

Nolvadex prevents estrogen from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body. Nolvadex is generally taken only if and when symptoms of gyno appear. The typical dosage is 80mg the first day, 40mg every day until the symptoms subside and 20mg a day through the end of Clomid therapy. If you are taking low-moderate doses of steroids (200-600mg a week falls into that class) you can halve the Nolvadex dose.

Arimidex, Liquidex and Proviron all function as aromatase inhibitors and work by blocking estrogen from forming. Most body builders prefer to block the estrogen from forming, because in addition to preventing gyno, it also decreases water retention and keeps the body looking harder. Typical dosages for Arimidex are 0.25 mg a day to 1.0mg a day, with 0. 5mg a day being average. Proviron is typically taken at a dosage of 50mg a day.

ALWAYS have an anti-estrogen on hand when you take steroids! Tits look great--but not on men! Even if you take an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex or Proviron, you should keep some Nolvadex on hand just in case the dose you are taking is too low and you start to see symptoms of gyno appear.

Q: If I Start having Symptoms of Gyno and I don’t have an anti-estrogen, should I just stop taking steroids?

A: Stopping your cycle won't fix the problem. Why?

1) You will still have estrogen in your body, so the tit-building continues.

2) You will still have steroids in your body for the next 2-3 weeks that will convert to estrogen, so the tit-building continues.

3) After all the steroids are metabolized your testosterone will be near zero and your body's natural estrogen levels will be high (yes, your body does produce some estrogen), which also means that tit-building will continue.

Stopping the steroids will not stop gyno. Anti-estrogens stop gyno.

If you don't take an aromatase inhibitor during your cycle like Arimidex or Proviron ALWAYS have some Nolvadex on hand. Even if you do use aromatase inhibitors, having Nolvadex on hand is still a good idea in case your Arimidex/Proviron dose is too low or you accidentally miss doses.

I recommend having no less than 60 x 20mg tabs of Nolvadex on hand before you start ANY cycle.

IMO, only a fool would start a cycle without anti-e's on hand.

Q: If I Start having symptoms of gyno what should I do?

A: Treat the symptoms with Nolvadex. Once you have estrogen in your system, aromatase inhibitors like Arimidex, Femara and Proviron will not prevent the estrogen hat has formed from causing gyno.

Nolvadex is the only drug that will stop gyno once the symptoms appear. Nolvadex prevents estrogen from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body. Nolvadex is generally taken only if and when symptoms of gyno appear. The typical dosage is 80mg the first day, 40mg every day until the symptoms subside and 20mg a day through the end of Clomid therapy.

If you are taking low-moderate doses of steroids (200-600mg a week falls into that class) you can halve the Nolvadex dose: 40mg the first day, 20mg every day until the symptoms subside and 10mg a day through the end of Clomid therapy.

If you don't take an aromatase inhibitor during your cycle like Arimidex, Femara or Proviron ALWAYS have some Nolvadex on hand. Even if you do use aromatase inhibitors, having Nolvadex on hand is still a good idea in case your Arimidex/Femara/Proviron dose is too low or you accidentally miss doses.

Plan for he best, prepare for the worst! I recommend having no less than 60 x 20mg tabs of Nolvadex on hand before you start ANY cycle.

(Sorry for being a bit repetitive here, but this point is SO IMPORTANT, I don’t want to leave any aspect uncovered.)

Q: Are there any non-prescription anti-estrogens?

A: No, none that I would trust. Sorry!

Q: I already have gyno, what can I do to make it go away?

A: If breasts tissue has already formed, the only treatment is surgical; anti-estrogens will have no effect in reducing the size.

Q: Will I lose my gains when I stop taking steroids? What is the best way to keep the gains I made on anabolic steroids?

A: One particular problem with steroids is that they temporarily shut down the body’s natural testosterone production, so once the steroid cycle is completed, the body is not producing any testosterone. Without your natural testosterone, you feel tired, you have no libido and muscle atrophy (loss of muscle) can occur.

Most bodybuilders use Clomid post-cycle to restore their natural testosterone production.

On top of that, good diet and a good exercise regiment will help you keep most, if not all of your gains.

Q: What is Clomid? How do I take Clomid?

A: Clomid (clomiphene citrate) helps the male testes to restore natural testosterone production. Clomid is taken on the following schedule: 300mg the first day, 100mg a day for the next ten days and 50mg a day for another 10 days.

Click here for an excellent FAQ on Clomid.

Q: When should I start Clomid after my cycle?

A: When the LAST of the steroids are out of your system. Here is a chart that illustrates how long it takes specific steroids to get out of your system:

Anadrol : 8 - 12 hours after last administration
Deca : 3 weeks after last injection and Clomid for 4 weeks
Dianabol : 4 – 8 hours after last administration
Equipoise : 17 – 21 days after last injection
Fina: 3 days after last injection
Primobolan depot: 10 – 14 days after last injection
Sustanon : 3 weeks after last injection
Testosterone Cypionate : 2 weeks after last injection
Testosterone Enathate: 2 weeks after last injection
Testosterone Propionate : 3 days after last injection
Testosterone Suspension : 4 – 8 hours after last administration
Winstrol : 8 – 12 hours after last administration

Wait until ALL the steroids you have taken have been metabolized! For example, if you stop taking testosterone enathate (2 weeks) and Winstrol (12 hours) at the same time, wait 2 weeks!

**Newzabra** · 05-29-2002, 03:43 AM

Thanks for the help guys, this forum rocks.

**Steak Helmet** · 05-29-2002, 04:34 AM

Yes, it is better to have it on hand...when you signs arise and you don't have it, you might stop your cycle...then all your efforts will be lost.

Keep it on hand...if you don't have it yet, don't start, because when those signs come around and you are not ready for them, you are out your cash, your hard work, and your time.

LATER

**Ajax** · 06-01-2002, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by Steak Helmet
Yes, it is better to have it on hand...when you signs arise and you don't have it, you might stop your cycle...then all your efforts will be lost.

Actually, stopping your cycle will put you at higher risk of gyno! Most guys don't realize this, but it's not just the amount of estrogen in your system that causes gyno, but high levels of estrogen relative to the amount of testosterone in your system can also cause gyno! (That's why you see a lot of old guys with droopy looking chests: they have gyno because their testosterone levels have dropped and are still producing estrogen.)

Stopping your cycle will not get rid of estrogen that has already been produced. Even more estrogen will be produced as your body metabolizes the rest of the steroids in your body AND your testosterone levels will be dropping to near zero--putting you at VERY HIGH RISK of gyno!

So if you get gyno, get some Nolvadex and get it fast! That's the ONLY way to stop gyno oncew you see the symptoms!

**racer_inboston** · 06-08-2002, 06:59 AM

Guys, i live here in boston, MA if you guys know a contact who has this anti-estrogen stuff here in boston, i would appreciate it, i started a cycle with prop & equi and wanna be safe, tks

**Buddha_Red** · 06-09-2002, 04:40 PM

Hey gang

How much clomid and nolvadex do you keep on hand at all times? I guess the main question is how much do i order no matter what newbie cycle is designed?

I am still on that quest to learn everything i can before i go there heh

I am designing my lists and i really should stock up on my "cant go without" meds.

Thanks yall