Too fat to get the girls, please help!

**VaDeR_1138** · 06-07-2002, 01:08 PM

I am very excited about this site this is my first post. I researched the site before asking this question, but could not find the exact answers I was looking for. I need help for my first cycle. To give a background I have been a fat kid all my life. My friends are all workout guys and they get all the chicks and i get to watch well no more. I am 22 years old 5 feet 8 inches tall 235lbs (mostly fat)but muscular under the fat. I have been working out for two years and have lost 60lbs. and have grown very strong actually more than my friends I put on muscle very easily but also fat even though I have a solid diet now. I want to lose the fat but put on some big mass and strength. I would like to list the cycle I have in mind and see what you guys think. you will notice they are all orals and it is because I have a tremendous fear of needles I actually pass out when I see them I know I sound like a pussy but I cant help it. Anyway here goes.......

Dianobol for weeks 1-7 at 4,5,6,7,6,5,4 tabs a day
Anavar for weeks 8-10 at 8,8,8,8,10 tabs per day
Cytomel for weeks 4-10 at 1,2,3,2,1 tabs per day
Clenbuterol for weeks 1-3 and 7-9 at 5,6,7&5,6,7 tabs per day
Nolvadex for weeks 3-9 at 1,1,2,2,2,2,2 tabs per day
Clomid for weeks 9-10 at 1 tab per day both weeks

Any input you have would be greatly appreciated if I should upsome doses or I have added things I dont need let me know. Thank you in Advance. VaDeR_1138

[email protected]

**arthurb999** · 06-07-2002, 01:10 PM

Diet+cardio+clen .

What is your diet like? Give us an example of your typical days diet. What is your training split? How much cardio a week?

**Pete235** · 06-07-2002, 01:38 PM

60lbs is great keep doing what your doing bro!!

As far as your cycle I have a few suggestions. First, the cytomel ...look in the "educational threads" forum and find CYCLEONS formula for T3 dosing. Follow his suggestions. Second, clen ...don't over complicate things, run 2 weeks on 2 weeks off (ECA on off weeks) and stay at 6-7 tabs per day. Third, gear...dbol and anavar have two drastically differen't results. Dbol will cause a lot of strength and size quickly as well as a lot of water retention (unless you're running arimidex ) whereas var will give nice strength gains but VERY moderate size gains (if any at all since you're dieting). Plus you need at least 40mg/day to be effective I'd recommend:

weeks 1-10 EQ @ 400mg/week
weeks 3-8 winstrol (depot or tabs) @ 50mg/eod

This is a nice cutting stack. It would be nicer if you added test prop @ 100mg/eod.

**PURE ADRENALINE** · 06-07-2002, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Pete235
60lbs is great keep doing what your doing bro!!

As far as your cycle I have a few suggestions. First, the cytomel ...look in the "educational threads" forum and find CYCLEONS formula for T3 dosing. Follow his suggestions. Second, clen ...don't over complicate things, run 2 weeks on 2 weeks off (ECA on off weeks) and stay at 6-7 tabs per day. Third, gear...dbol and anavar have two drastically differen't results. Dbol will cause a lot of strength and size quickly as well as a lot of water retention (unless you're running arimidex ) whereas var will give nice strength gains but VERY moderate size gains (if any at all since you're dieting). Plus you need at least 40mg/day to be effective I'd recommend:

weeks 1-10 EQ @ 400mg/week
weeks 3-8 winstrol (depot or tabs) @ 50mg/eod

This is a nice cutting stack. It would be nicer if you added test prop @ 100mg/eod.

Pete if I may bro I would like to add a few things and comment on your reply.

First off bro, like Pete said, great job my man on losing 60lbs!

Second I agree with Pete in that you really need to keep things simple. Make sure you have reached a sticking point before you get into AS!

Sounds like you have the genetics to be a big son of a bitch so fuck your friends my man. Well that does not sound good but you know what I mean I hope!lol:

However if you are sure you want to use I have to back up Pete that you will or IMO should run EQ and winny. You may hate needles but a totally oral cycle may lead you to other problems and to be honest in my experience orals are not near as good as inject. AS.

I think you should just keep doing what you are doing bro...try using the clen slowly and some ECA on the weeks you are off the clen.

Cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach for a few months and se how you do.

If you still feel you want to cycle then maybe find a friend to inject you so you do not have to see the needle.

And last point bro...as for women.... You need to train for you not them...any girl that wants you for your body is not one worth having IMO.

Your inspiration should be when you look in the mirror and you see this "FAT” kid...that should make you angry and hungry to train.

For me it is the opposite. I have always been a skinny ass kid. Went into the USMC and totally fell in love with BB.

I started at 6'1 175lbs.now i am at 6'1 240lbs. My goal is to reach 280lbs with around 12% body fat.

Anyway just keep your head up and your heart in the gym bro !!!!

**Pete235** · 06-07-2002, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by PURE ADRENALINE
And last point bro...as for women.... You need to train for you not them...any girl that wants you for your body is not one worth having IMO.

Amen to that brother!!

**PURE ADRENALINE** · 06-07-2002, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Pete235

Amen to that brother!!

**VaDeR_1138** · 06-07-2002, 02:16 PM

My diet consists of 2700-3000 calories per day 250-300 carbs 75 fat and around 250-300 protein typical day is as follows

breakfast mrp\milk(non-fat) 2 hard boiled eggs

lunch chicken breast, mixed fruit, salad w veggies

snack chili or beef stew

dinner swiss steak, wild or steamed rice, mrp, veggies

snack mrp, cottage cheese

I work out three days on one day off (every body part twice a week)

cardio four times per week.

I hope this helps, thanks again.

**John Hubbard** · 06-07-2002, 03:38 PM

Vader, Pete and PA are giving you solid advice. I understand you having your fear of needles but if you could get a friend or somebody to give you the shots it would benefit you greatly. An oral only cycle isn't a good thing to do. If you absolutely can't run the cycle Pete suggest then here is an all oral cycle that i would do if i had to go that route:

wk 1-8 anavar 50mg/day
wk 1-4 primobolan tabs 100mg/day
wk 4-8 winny 75mg/day

Cytomel dosing according to Cycleons post.
Clen : 2 wks on/ 2 wks off - 120mcg/day
ECA stack : Taken during off weeks of clen.
Clomid : wk 9-10; 1 st day 300mg,
100mg/day next 10 days, 50mg/day last 10 days.

I wouldn't take nolvadex with this . You shouldn't need it with those AS. I personally would use this cycle if i had to use an all oral cycle but as i said earlier it's not the way to go. You stated that you would like to add a lot of muscle and lose fat . I would tackle one thing at a time. I'm not sure what your main priority is but if it's to lose bodyfat , then i would concentrate on that and worry about gaining muscle later on. The above is intended to be a cutting cycle because if i read your post right then your main goal is to lose bf. It will help you preserve muscle as you shed fat. You may gain a few pounds of muscle but i wouldn't really expect it. The important thing is to stay focused on your goals and never give up. You're doing an excellent job! You lost 60 lbs. and that is great !

The best of luck to you .

P.S. Welcome to AR!!

**testaprim** · 06-07-2002, 03:56 PM

good advice you guys, i just wanted to add, it looked as though vad you tapered everything imo no need to taper AS just a solid dose for the whole cycle. the only thing that i taper is clomid post cycle.

**mike2112** · 06-07-2002, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by VaDeR_1138
My diet consists of 2700-3000 calories per day 250-300 carbs 75 fat and around 250-300 protein typical day is as follows

breakfast mrp\milk(non-fat) 2 hard boiled eggs

lunch chicken breast, mixed fruit, salad w veggies

snack chili or beef stew

dinner swiss steak, wild or steamed rice, mrp, veggies

snack mrp, cottage cheese

I work out three days on one day off (every body part twice a week)

cardio four times per week.

I hope this helps, thanks again.

250-300 carbs,you should try 150 ...continue cardio,maybe 5X week,add clen +ECA,you should add kynolesen and if Iwere you I'd AVOId D-bol which could give you a bloated physic bro...EQ,fina and winny is a great stack to help you to do solid muscle gains and increase the fat loss...
whatever,60lbs in 2 years is A VERY GOOD THING BRO!! continue like this!!

**TRIPLE HHH** · 06-07-2002, 04:48 PM

Dude if your that afraid of needles you shouldnt get involved with ANY AS. If you just take all orals your gonna lose the results anyway and damage your liver. Just work out naturally. Also your biggest problem seems to be impatience, I mean shit you have only been working out for 2 years. You need to work out naturally for at least a couple of more years before even thinking about AS IMO.

**Pete235** · 06-07-2002, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by TRIPLE HHH
1) If you just take all orals your gonna lose the results anyway and damage your liver.

2) Also your biggest problem seems to be impatience,

Triple triple H....I agree with you for the most part. But I have issues with the above two statements.

1) Your advice here is true and false. Although some orals are harsh on the liver it can be avoided with the proper precautions. The 2nd part is WAY off. Who told you, you would lose the gains you make on an oral only cycle. That's horseshit!! Bro, please don't give advice on gear as you haven't done a single cycle yet. No offence but you are not qualified. If you want to contribute in the future please preface with "I've heard that........."

2) I could say the same thing about you since you are only 19 and are bound and determined to use AAS. Please don't call the kettle black. Contribute, but let people know that you're still anewbie as well.

**Darkknight442** · 06-07-2002, 05:17 PM

I ain't saying one thing about the his cycles pete. lol hells no no way don't know enough. All i have ot say is that. I know you wanna loose wieght and slim down and stuff. So don't you think you should wait a little more, yah know shed of some more of the fat befor you start the AS.??? Yah know. I say hit the cardio and diet hard for another month or two. Bring your wieght actually your bf down a little then hit the AS hard. The results will show better IMO. And yeahman you HAVE to decrease that carb and calories intake. You are intaking too much. Anways. i hope what i said was right. And bro good luck. I know exactly how you feel. i was always soo fat all my other friends always getting the girls. Now after a couple of years and eating well. got myself down to bollow 200lbs. and am feeling aot better. still no women htough lol but at leasi feel good. good luck man

**Darkknight442** · 06-07-2002, 05:18 PM

wait you did not even give your bf% oops sorry

**bizznach** · 06-07-2002, 05:21 PM

[ wk 1-8 anavar 50mg/day
wk 1-4 primobolan tabs 100mg/day
wk 4-8 winny 75mg/day

Cytomel dosing according to Cycleons post.
Clen : 2 wks on/ 2 wks off - 120mcg/day
ECA stack : Taken during off weeks of clen.
Clomid : wk 9-10; 1 st day 300mg,
100mg/day next 10 days, 50mg/day last 10 days.]

dude IMO u dont need 75mgs of winny a day 50mg a day or 50mg eod is enough i think, but im no expert

**VaDeR_1138** · 06-07-2002, 05:48 PM

Thank you very much everyone for your outstanding feedback. It is very much appreciated. I will take all your comments seriously and do more research before I begin any cycle, thanks again. VaDeR

**PURE ADRENALINE** · 06-07-2002, 06:14 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pete235
[B]

Triple triple H....I agree with you for the most part.

Shit I do not even agree with that to be honest.

Maybe he is afraid of needles VADER but that is what partners are for...and as time goes on he may become more acustomed to it..but the advice is off and not correct Vander...however the point here is we all agree he needs to run some Injectables and I think he will consider all advice...

And for an all oral cycle I have to say John Hubbard has a good thought on that..

**ripped4fsu** · 06-07-2002, 06:33 PM

Vader,,
From one FAT kid to another,,, I feel ya bro, I watched my buddies bag chicks from the sidelines for years... shit used to PISS me off... so I know where your coming from. BUT,, I commend you for doing your homework. hang out on the AR site and learn as much as you can,,
Since you are already a big dude, I agree with Pete and go for a cutting cycle,, and MOST importantly get your hiney on the stairmaster!! you got to burn the fat or the ladies will never see the beast underneath!!

good luck, keep us posted
Ripper

**PURE ADRENALINE** · 06-07-2002, 06:35 PM

and MOST importantly get your hiney on the stairmaster!!
Ripper [/B][/QUOTE]

**PaPaPumP** · 06-07-2002, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by PURE ADRENALINE

And last point bro...as for women.... You need to train for you not them...any girl that wants you for your body is not one worth having IMO.

cept if she only wants to have you for the nite.

and you feel the same way. then all bets are off. and PA's advice does not apply.

btw. awesome progress. 60 lbs is a damn backstreet boy. keep workin and you get your goal, ya...your friends get their play on now. but 6 months from now, if you make it happen, it will be a different story. go get em tiger.

**tuff** · 06-07-2002, 07:09 PM

I am going to be with Pete 100% on both of his statements. First off that guy who said that "oral roids will cause you to lose what you gain" come onman are you shitting me. Not to mention not all oral roids are for gaining muscle or weight. What about clen and t3, what after the cycle are you gonna gain fat back. Not rally tring to bust your balls but man don't tell people shit like that if you are not sure and in this case you are not.
Second i agree with the fact that cytomel and clen would be a good way to go and not AS for the moment. If you are serious about losing weight get it in your mind that it is not gonna happen over night, you are in for the long run. Taking clen at 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off will work. On your 3 weeks off take ECA stack with cytomel (if you choose) take the cytomel like this
Day 1-1tab--- day 8-3tab--- day 15-3tab-- day 22-1/2tab
day 2-1tab--- day 9-3tab--- day 16-2tab-- day 23-1/2tab
day 3-1tab--- day 10-4tab-- day 17-2tab-- day 24-1/2tab
day 4-2tab--- day 11-4tab-- day 18-2tab-- day 25-1/2tab
day 5-2tab--- day 12-4tab-- day 19-1tab
day 6-2tab--- day 13-3tab-- day 20-1tab
day 7-3tab--- day 14-3tab-- day 21-1tab

on the 23rd day you can start your 2nd cycle of clen the same as the first. Don't deviate from that cytomel cycle as it is very dangerous if you don't cycle it down very slowly. After that 9 weeks you should have no fat problems anymore,LOL, persay. Plus never run d-bol more then 6 weeks.
Peace out
Tuff

**VaDeR_1138** · 06-07-2002, 08:34 PM

Hey fellas great info I am impressed with all of your various knowledge I am curious though when you guys say ECA stack I know you are refering to ephedrine,caffiene, and aspirin but do you literally mean take those supplements seperately or a thermogenic like xenadrine or hydroxycut also a few of you suggested EQ I am unclear are you refering to Equipoise ? Thanks again gentlemen for all of your advise and support you are truly masters of your craft. congradulations on your knowledge and success. VaDeR_1138

**BIG_GUNS_21** · 06-07-2002, 10:36 PM

You doing great so far bro! Few suggestions, 1) try your hardest to get over the fear of pinz, they are a corner stone of any safer cycle 2) dont get to cought up in the "gear" yet! You put on weight naturally (like me) and you store fat readily, so certain types of steroids would not help you (ie D-bol for the mass and water, EQ for the EQ hunger) 3) only do a SMALL amount of gear this cycle, your not trying to take advantage of the fresh receptors like a lot of the already lean guys who are trying to gain 30lbs but you should rather be thinking along the lines of maintaining the muscle mass you have through low and mild steroids rather then getting into the bodybuilding frame of mind where bigger is better. 4) Dont go for the keto diets, keep you diet HIGH protein, med carbs and low fat, these diets are easier to maintain the weight loss after your finished dieting and the yo yo diet (95% of people who lose weight gain it back) will be less likely by far! 5) cardio on an empty stomach or after your weight training. 6) DONT OVER TRAIN! train each muscle only one time a week with 5 days of cardio every week, again this goes back to maintaining your strength and muscle mass so you wont yo yo at the end of the diet when you are happy with how you look 7) DO IT FOR YOURSELF!!!!!! this is one of the most important things, dont do it for girls, popularity, prase ect, do it b/c deep down you want to be a lean mean f'n machein and like the way you look, forget what others think!!!

**Iron horse** · 06-08-2002, 08:03 AM

hey bro, obviously you got a nice diet going if you lost 60lbs.

I was at one time scared of needles and told myself I'd never touch them only the oral... your mind changes very quickly after you realise it doesnt hurt whatsoever when you do it. You may be afriad because when yuo get your shots the nurse drives the thing in at 100 mphs an hour.

if you got the loot. anavar at 40mgs daily for 6-8 weeks.
or, winstrol 50mgs ED for 6-8 weeks

(as long as your not an alcohalic since these are 17AA steroids )

harder on the liver then most if not all injectables.

If you get over your fear of needles and have money,

primo at 300mgs week with winstrol!

**cnyce89** · 06-08-2002, 02:30 PM

everyone has given excelt advice so ill leave it at that. but one thing you did say that uderneath your fat you have muscle, So basically, i would stick to the cutting cycle...it will bring out the muscle thats hiding on you, and i think you will be VERY impressed with the results.
It may take 1 it may take 2 tries...but its dedication. Nothing happens overnight, and you know that. loosing 60 pounds is one hell of an acomlishment...i pat you on the back for that

**ZTEM** · 06-08-2002, 02:50 PM

GOOD JOB ON THE PROGRESS SO FAR BRO

Personally if i were you id hit the Clen and Cytomel in the doses stated above for 8-12 weeks then take off that shit for about 8 weeks and then work at keeping your weight down to whatever you get it to....then go with some EQ and Winny at an average dose.....take a few months off the AS and then see where you are.....

then if you want to hit some of the AS such as DBOL or test that is going to make you bloat up try it there with some more CYTO or CLEN

**VaDeR_1138** · 06-09-2002, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Pete235
60lbs is great keep doing what your doing bro!!

As far as your cycle I have a few suggestions. First, the cytomel ...look in the "educational threads" forum and find CYCLEONS formula for T3 dosing. Follow his suggestions. Second, clen ...don't over complicate things, run 2 weeks on 2 weeks off (ECA on off weeks) and stay at 6-7 tabs per day. Third, gear...dbol and anavar have two drastically differen't results. Dbol will cause a lot of strength and size quickly as well as a lot of water retention (unless you're running arimidex ) whereas var will give nice strength gains but VERY moderate size gains (if any at all since you're dieting). Plus you need at least 40mg/day to be effective I'd recommend:

weeks 1-10 EQ @ 400mg/week
weeks 3-8 winstrol (depot or tabs) @ 50mg/eod

This is a nice cutting stack. It would be nicer if you added test prop @ 100mg/eod.

I've thought about it and to reach my goals my fear of needles cannot be involved. I have done more research and have decided that at my current bf% a cycle based on cutting is best. This is what I have come up with.
Winstrol,Primobolan ,clenbuterol (w/ eca and T-3 on off weeks) and clomid last two weeks. 10 week total

What I still need help with,If its not too much trouble, Is the prefered dosage of these products I have researched this site and others and the dosages seem to vary a great deal leaving me a little confused. I am hoping you can shed some light. Also would it be your advise to add test or EQ to this cycle. Also ECA stacks I am a little fuzzy on What exactly is recommended Eph,Caf, and asp. used seperately or a thermogenic like xenadrine or hydroxycut? I am afraid I am unclear. I apologise for all the questions but being my very first cycle I would like the best advise I can get. Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, VaDeR_1138

**BIG_GUNS_21** · 06-09-2002, 02:31 PM

Well, what I personally would do in your situation is get just one mild anabolic MAYBE 2 like your saying here and run it at lower doses and for longer duration, just to maintain what muscle you have while loseing the body fat, you should not be trying at all to gain! With clen its up to your tolerance how much to use, start at 2 tabs (20mcg each) and work the dose up till the sides are almost to much to handle then cut back by one tabs and thats your dose. The T3 take it in 25mcg doses, working the dose up slowly and ramping off the same. take 25mcg for 4 or so days, then 50 then 75 then 100 hold there for a couple weeks then back down the same way. The ECA if you are unsure use something like the hydroxy or xenadrine b/c they are already mixed in the proper proportions, jsut take it as the bottle recomends. Winny I would stick with 50mg ed and depending on what primo you get (20mg sublinguals use 5-6 tabs ed, injectable use 300mg/week)

The T3 clen can be run in a 21 day cycle like this:

T3 25mcg tabs: 111222333444333222111 tabs/day
clen find the dose the same way and hold for the 21 days then off and use the Eca for the next 21days and repeat the cycle.

Theres a few ways to run this stuff. There are many different ways to cycle but this gives some kinda idea to you about what you should be looking at (if anything cycle wise)