Shit AND fuck...l'il help here

[Nathan]

Well, went to the doc today for my blood test results, and well, I'm dying.

Just kidding but it still isn't good news. My liver enzymes are still high after 3-4 months since I took winny. My AST is at about 42 (norm is <37), which isn't that bad but my ALT is at 87 (norm is <55 I think) which has me a bit concerned. They actually went up a little bit from my last visit a few weeks ago but are down from in March As to my natural test, my free test is 11.8 (norm is 8-3? I think) which is okay but my total (I think it was total) is 25.7 (norrm is 40-80). So, test is a bit low which is to be expected. I am almost 7 weeks out from a 14 week cycle and I only took 4 weeks (not even) off before that. All in all, I suppose my test is doing well considering but liver enzymes are a concern. I am seeing a specialist tomorrow which probably isn't necessary but what the hell, and will get an ultrasound then as well to check liver. I am getting blood taken again in two weeks to check if things are getting better. I would like people's input here if I could have it, especially those with a medical background but every opinion welcome.

My plan is to take clomid for the next week or so (oh yeah, my LH was 11 and norm is 1-10 I think). I will also be getting some ALA tonight and will take that at 300mg ED or more - I can only get 50 or 100mg caps. I wanted to start my cycle in another 9 days or so but will wait until after the blood test are back (an extra week) and if shit is closer to normal then, fuck it, I'll go back on but stay off 17aa for a while longer - at least. Let this be alesson to all of you, you may feel fine, and your nuts may have dropped back down but that doesn't mean you are necessarily good to go for your nest cycle.

Oh yeah, I should also mention that I used for 7 weeks, then came off for about 3.5 weeks, then used winny again for another 4 weeks or so and that's what is causing the liver problems I'm sure. That was a few months ago though.

[Nathan]

I don't mean to sound like a whiny panicked child here, I am not. I'm not too concerned I just want some input. My doc made me a bit anxious and you all know what happens when I get anxious.

[androplex]

Any chance you did some drinking before the blood test? My ALT AST was up too about 4 or 5 point from the high range and retested several weeks later and they dropped down but still on high end. Doc asked me if I went drinking in the last few days. Of course I had not. Sorry to here about your ALT being 87. AST does not look that bad.

Here is a good read on the alt and ast.

Hope things work out for you. I would hold off on using till ALT gets lower if you dont have any other reason for it to be high.


however.Common Laboratory Tests in Liver Diseases
Howard J. Worman, M. D.
The diagnosis of liver diseases depends upon a combination of history, physical examination, laboratory testing and sometimes radiological studies and biopsy. Only a physician who knows all of these aspects of a specific case can reliably make a diagnosis. Many individuals with liver diseases nonetheless have questions about their laboratory test results and seek information about their significance. The purpose of this page is to briefly describe some of the common laboratory tests that may be abnormal in individuals with liver diseases. Patients reading this page must keep in mind that abnormalities of these laboratory tests are not diagnostic of specific diseases and that only a qualified physician who knows the entire case can provide a reliable diagnosis.
Alanine aminotransferase (ALT)
ALT is an enzyme produced in hepatocytes, the major cell type in the liver. ALT is often inaccurately referred to as a liver function test, however, its level in the blood tells little about the function of the liver. The level of ALT in the blood (actually enzyme activity is measured in the clinical laboratory) is increased in conditions in which hepatocytes are damaged or die. As cells are damaged, ALT leaks out into the bloodstream. All types of hepatitis (viral, alcoholic, drug-induced, etc.) cause hepatocyte damage that can lead to elevations in the serum ALT activity. The ALT level is also increased in cases of liver cell death resulting from other causes, such as shock or drug toxicity. The level of ALT may correlate roughly with the degree of cell death or inflammation, however, this is not always the case. An accurate estimate of inflammatory activity or the amount cell death can only be made by liver biopsy. (See also aspartate aminotransferase below.)
Aspartate aminotransferase (AST)
AST is an enzyme similar to ALT (see above) but less specific for liver disease as it is also produced in muscle and can be elevated in other conditions (for example, early in the course of a heart attack). AST is also inaccurately referred to as a liver function test by many physicians. In many cases of liver inflammation, the ALT and AST activities are elevated roughly in a 1:1 ratio. In some conditions, such as alcoholic hepatitis or shock liver, the elevation in the serum AST level may higher than the elevation in the serum ALT level.

[Nathan]

Thanks bro. My liver enzymes are usually a bit high but some of that is from high protein intake and I understand heavy lifting can also increase the enzymes. Hopefully things will be lower in two weeks time.

[Nathan]

Come one guys, quite a few views but not many replies. Please comment even if it's only to say "Everybody Wang Chung tonight."

[androplex]

bump for nathan

[doublewide]

The bottom line is that your doctor is a little concerned about your liver levels, does he know about the roids? If he did, he may not worry as much as this would probably explain things. I would NOT tell him about the roids due to insurance repurrcussions. He might be concerned you have some form of Hepatitis or something. Your doctor can tell if your liver levels are from drinking. Your AST levels would be alot higher (in alcoholics the AST levels are often twice that of the ALT levels) and your triglycerides would probably be high.

Your liver is resiliant and with time will probably get back in range. Are you taking any other medications? Did you take any medications the day before the test? Lifting weights previous to giving blood might have something to do with it but, normally, it raises the AST levels as opposed to the ALT levels.

Your levels are not that high. If you look at some health chat boards, some of these people have outrageous levels. Yours, in comparison, are low.

My ALT levels were over 100 at one time and I had never done a cycle. It was due to some meds I was taking. And probably partying a bit much.

Bottom line, you are getting tested and should have answers very soon. I am sure it will be fine.

[Padawan]

I was on some pretty strong clinical grade "Tylenol" for migraine headaches, and it put my enzymes way out of whack. Have you taken any over the counter pain killers, Tylenol, Motrin, etc.?

[primodonna]

Everybody Wang Chung Tonight

[Ice_cold]

Originally posted by primodonna
Everybody Wang Chung Tonight

what she said LOL. big bump for you bro!

[XBiker]

I'll be sure and attend your funeral, Nate.

Also, you can get some ALA at www.anabolical.com

[LightSnack]

take 2 clomid and call me in the morning,

That'll be $500 please

[bigboyfromamass]

Bros call me stupid but what does ala do for lifters?

Lightsnack I saw your line about speaking jive that was a hilarious movie!

[Darkknight442]

yeah get the ultrasound done

[Darkknight442]

oops

lol, No i just wnated to say that, I went to india oon buisness a couple of years ago. Anwya my b day came up and my cuz took m e out. And man i got TRASHED. sooooot rahsed. anway 2 days later i went to the doc to get the liver cheked out, and It was all fucked up enlargeed, and shit all enzymes and stuff were all out of whack. I get back to america and get a second opinion. and the first hting the doc asked after i otld him was your b day was 2 days b4 that right?? isaid yeha. he was like did you get rocked. I wa slike yeah. and he said Of ocusre you had an enlarged liver!!!

lol

I think you should jsut get in and get that ltrasound done b4 anything else

[Nathan]

Okay, I think I know what is going on. I did get the ultrasound done but won't find out about that for 2 weeks but that's okay. I am also taking clen now and that can raise liver values as well. So can clomid and Nolva. Jeez, practically everything raises liver values. So, that it seems is why they went up. I'm going to take 50mg clomid for the next 6 days (took 100mg yesterday), I will discontinue the clen in a few days, then get my blood tested again in 2 weeks to see if everything is a little more close to where it should be. I will then get the fuck back on my nexy cycle. Oh, I'll probably take 12.5mcg T3 as well for the next while but that shouldn't affect anything I'm testing for.
Fucking "specialist" I saw today was a complete asswipe. Gave me all this jazz about getting cancer from roids and shit. Really pissed me off and I kept arguing with him until he said "I don't want to argue." And I agreed. He kept saying how you don't need steroids to compete. I kinda furrowed my brow and said, "Uh, yeah you do. Are you retarded?" Won't be seeing him again.

[androplex]

I just dont understand why so many doctors are asswipes about steroids . My doctors are great about it. I feel for you, Nathan. Sounds like you kept your temper under control. Pat yourself on the back that you are taking charge of your health and keep doing it. Dont let those asswipes get you down either. Keep going to the doctor and getting your lab work done, its important and you already know this. You are not alone, dont forget this. We are here for you.

[PURE ADRENALINE]

Originally posted by primodonna
Everybody Wang Chung Tonight

Damn you primo you beat me to it !!!!!

[PURE ADRENALINE]

Originally posted by primodonna
Everybody Wang Chung Tonight

Damn you primo you beat me to it !!!!!

Shit Nathan the clomid is my thoughts on the low test but damn bro really can't give any info on the rest.

i am going for blood work in a month or so after this cycle.

And will probably be posting the same damn thing !!!!

[Nathan]

Yes, I am taking clomid now PA, only thing is it elevates liver enzymes as well a bit. I will stop everything but T3 a week or more before next tests are done. I am also hitting ALA now.

[Nathan]

And thanks Andro.