length of cycle debate..........

[shorty2big]

Okay,
let’s see if I can write down a little something that resembles what I would do
on a normal basis. Let me start by saying that I am a “meat and potatoes”
kind of person when it comes to the compounds that I use. I stick to the
basics and I really don’t get all that scientific about it. Through the years I
have learned that you will grow with whatever you may be taking if your
eating right, training hard, and resting enough. I know you already knew that,
I am just writing this in case you forward this to anyone else that might be
new. I know for the first few years that I was juicing, I would try to
scientifically plot out this elaborate cycle and make it all difficult. Do you
understand what I am saying? I now use very few compounds at a lot lesser
dosage with maximum results. Here is a list of my favorite compounds and
what I typically use:
testosterones: T400,T200,T100,Testonon 250, for me personally I prefer the
T400 or Testonon 250. I just think it’s the best deal.
Lloffler 25mg D-bol tabs, another great androgenic at a great price & they
even work pretty decent.
EQ, either Ganabol, ultragan, or Fort Dodge. I seem to prefer the Fort Dodge
but I usually use the Ganabol.
TT winny tabs, my new favorite to the arsenal. These things have made me so
freakin’ lean, hard, and strong.
Deca , usually use the Brovel, but now I really like the new QV brand.
Insulin , always Humulin R
Cytomel
Clenbuterol
Hcg
nolvadex
clomid

Of course many people will disagree with the brands that I use, but this is
what is affordable, and available for myself. I can’t complain either, they
seem to have worked for me.

Okay, here we go. I will generally run the “cycle within the cycle” routine.
My cycles have lasted me as long as 15-16 months(my last one), but that was
probably a little long I would imagine-even at low doses. They generally
would go about 10 months with about 2 months off. I like to start my cycle
off a little high to get things “kick started” so to speak. Nothing to
outrageous, just a nice little boost. I will run high for about 4-6 weeks. I then
go to a low-medium dose for the next 3 months( I guess you would say to
solidify and mature your gains) followed by a low anti-catabolic dose for
about 1 month. The low anti-catabolic dose is basically the off period with in
the cycle. Of course you are not really off, but giving the body a break with a
pretty low dose. I like to keep the dose around 200-300mg of a lower
androgenic, higher anabolic -just enough to keep from going catabolic. I
repeat this entire cycle about 3 times, just so that it ends around the 10 month
period for a real break. Of course none of the compounds that I listed are set
in stone for myself. It all depends what’s available at that time. I may have to
substitute something here or there. I just listed what has been tried and true
for myself at a decent price.

Week 1-6
D-bol 40mg/day
Deca 500mg/week
Test 600mg/week

Week 7-13
Hcg for one week-2500iu injected twiceweek
Test 600mg/week
Deca 300mg/week
EQ 300mg/week
** I know a lot of people wouldn’t agree with running EQ & Deca together
but it has worked excellent for me.
** Also start T3 at 50mcg/day around week 10. Some people will disagree
with how long I run T3 but I have never had any rebound problems or any
problems with natural thyroid kicking back on. I know I have read over and
over again that there is no proof that extended intake of T3 will shut down the
natural thyroid process, and I would have to agree from my own experience.
A lot of people think that T3 is only good for fat burning. What they don’t
realize is that it helps process all the nutrients faster too.

Week 14-20
Hcg for one week again, same dosage
Test 300mg/week
Deca 200mg/week
EQ 300mg/week
Winny 30mg/day
Week 21-24
Hcg therapy again for one week
Start tapering off T3 very slowly, probably around week 19, be done by week
22
Take nolvadex if I feel any sort of estrogen rebound coming on. I never get
gyno so that’s not ever an issue with myself-thank god!!!
Clen for the last two weeks

Repeat complete cycle another 1-2 times
I only use clomid when I truly come off. When I am on the “true” off cycle, I
will take hcg for about 3 weeks @ 2500iu 2x/week. Following that I will take
clomid @ 100mg/day for a week and the 50mg/day for another week. I only
use the insulin to help keep full during the off cycle.

That’s pretty much about it. It’s not too complicated and it has worked
tremendous wonders for myself. I know some people might disagree with
some of the things I do but this is what I know to work extremely well for me.
I have tried and done all types of cycles and gear and I think that this is going
to be my regimen from now on. Hope this helps a little.

Keep training hard brothers,
Shorty2Big

[TheDarkSide]

Originally posted by shorty2big
Okay,
let’s see if I can write down a little something that resembles what I would do
on a normal basis. Let me start by saying that I am a “meat and potatoes”
kind of person when it comes to the compounds that I use. I stick to the
basics and I really don’t get all that scientific about it. Through the years I
have learned that you will grow with whatever you may be taking if your
eating right, training hard, and resting enough. I know you already knew that,
I am just writing this in case you forward this to anyone else that might be
new. I know for the first few years that I was juicing, I would try to
scientifically plot out this elaborate cycle and make it all difficult. Do you
understand what I am saying? I now use very few compounds at a lot lesser
dosage with maximum results. Here is a list of my favorite compounds and
what I typically use:
testosterones: T400,T200,T100,Testonon 250, for me personally I prefer the
T400 or Testonon 250. I just think it’s the best deal.
Lloffler 25mg D-bol tabs, another great androgenic at a great price & they
even work pretty decent.
EQ, either Ganabol, ultragan, or Fort Dodge. I seem to prefer the Fort Dodge
but I usually use the Ganabol.
TT winny tabs, my new favorite to the arsenal. These things have made me so
freakin’ lean, hard, and strong.
Deca , usually use the Brovel, but now I really like the new QV brand.
Insulin , always Humulin R
Cytomel
Clenbuterol
Hcg
nolvadex
clomid

Of course many people will disagree with the brands that I use, but this is
what is affordable, and available for myself. I can’t complain either, they
seem to have worked for me.

Okay, here we go. I will generally run the “cycle within the cycle” routine.
My cycles have lasted me as long as 15-16 months(my last one), but that was
probably a little long I would imagine-even at low doses. They generally
would go about 10 months with about 2 months off. I like to start my cycle
off a little high to get things “kick started” so to speak. Nothing to
outrageous, just a nice little boost. I will run high for about 4-6 weeks. I then
go to a low-medium dose for the next 3 months( I guess you would say to
solidify and mature your gains) followed by a low anti-catabolic dose for
about 1 month. The low anti-catabolic dose is basically the off period with in
the cycle. Of course you are not really off, but giving the body a break with a
pretty low dose. I like to keep the dose around 200-300mg of a lower
androgenic, higher anabolic -just enough to keep from going catabolic. I
repeat this entire cycle about 3 times, just so that it ends around the 10 month
period for a real break. Of course none of the compounds that I listed are set
in stone for myself. It all depends what’s available at that time. I may have to
substitute something here or there. I just listed what has been tried and true
for myself at a decent price.

Week 1-6
D-bol 40mg/day
Deca 500mg/week
Test 600mg/week

Week 7-13
Hcg for one week-2500iu injected twiceweek
Test 600mg/week
Deca 300mg/week
EQ 300mg/week
** I know a lot of people wouldn’t agree with running EQ & Deca together
but it has worked excellent for me.
** Also start T3 at 50mcg/day around week 10. Some people will disagree
with how long I run T3 but I have never had any rebound problems or any
problems with natural thyroid kicking back on. I know I have read over and
over again that there is no proof that extended intake of T3 will shut down the
natural thyroid process, and I would have to agree from my own experience.
A lot of people think that T3 is only good for fat burning. What they don’t
realize is that it helps process all the nutrients faster too.

Week 14-20
Hcg for one week again, same dosage
Test 300mg/week
Deca 200mg/week
EQ 300mg/week
Winny 30mg/day
Week 21-24
Hcg therapy again for one week
Start tapering off T3 very slowly, probably around week 19, be done by week
22
Take nolvadex if I feel any sort of estrogen rebound coming on. I never get
gyno so that’s not ever an issue with myself-thank god!!!
Clen for the last two weeks

Repeat complete cycle another 1-2 times
I only use clomid when I truly come off. When I am on the “true” off cycle, I
will take hcg for about 3 weeks @ 2500iu 2x/week. Following that I will take
clomid @ 100mg/day for a week and the 50mg/day for another week. I only
use the insulin to help keep full during the off cycle.

That’s pretty much about it. It’s not too complicated and it has worked
tremendous wonders for myself. I know some people might disagree with
some of the things I do but this is what I know to work extremely well for me.
I have tried and done all types of cycles and gear and I think that this is going
to be my regimen from now on. Hope this helps a little.

Keep training hard brothers,
Shorty2Big

GREAT POST BUMP

STILL IN LOVE WITH THIS THREAD

[mmaximus25]

Thanks s2b.... I'll put my use list also for criticism, even though I have made my best gains and saved more $ with... I'm sure some one may disagree,
I've learned to talk more specific about AS for those smart guys that beat me up with questions and crit...
Mine is also very basic not exotic...I'll post soon... gotta go to work

[silverfox]

Originally posted by mmaximus25
Mine is also very basic not exotic...I'll post soon... gotta go to work

There is the bottom line, speaking from experince, simple cycles are the best! Here is what i have learned thought experince and trail and error!

Test base (any ester if it's real) - Figure out what dose works for you and limits sides, for me it;s 1000mg week for other may be 200mg.

Add in ONE anabolic , Deca /eq or something similar at moderate dose 400mg week range,

Then if you can add in orals like d-ball or a50 every few weeks say 4-6 weeks on then 10-16 weeks off orals, if your advanced and have $$ run GH at moderate dose 4-6ius.

USE anti-e's and HGC for longer runs.

WORK HARD ON DIET and training, i hear all kinds of guys say I AM A BIG EATER, get a book on food values and WEIGHT your food, i bet most big eaters are a good 20-30% under what they THINK they are eating.

[shorty2big]

Silvefox.....
I totally agree with you. Diet is such the key. I have people tell me all the time they eat sooo much food. When I ask them what they are eating & after we go over that list, I tell them-Bro, you are not eating near enough!!!! Simple cycles, eating right, consistency, and you will keep growin'!!!

[NoLimits]

I am going to jump in on this one...

S2B, good job on this post.
Well I just finished a 24-week cycle almost identical to the one laid out by S2B. I am in post cycle therapy now (HCG , clomid and nolvadex ). I am planning on taking off thru March, then hitting it up again the first of April.

I wouldn’t recommend this type of cycle for someone just starting out. First off, they need to learn how there body responds to being on gear. But for someone who has a few cycles under their belt… it is worth considering. I was real happy with my results.

[majorpecs]

Hey NoLimits, can you compare your results of the 24week cycle with your previous cycles? I am interested in hearing real life results on this!

[NoLimits]

The biggest difference I can tell you is the muscle maturity I got while on longer (the shape, vascularity and overall look of the muscle). Does this make any sense? I am looking to see how my body responds post cycle now and how my body keeps the gains that I received while on. Then by hitting it up again in April, my body should keep transforming the way I am looking for.

[sOuLkRuShA]

WAS THINKING OF RUNNING THIS CYCLE, LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS THINK:

WEEKS 1-5
D-BOL(TTOKKYO TABS)@40mg ED
TEST CYP.(TTOKKYO)@600mg A WEEK - MON.THURS.SUN
DECA (TTOKKYO)@600mg A WEEK - MON.&THURS.

WEEKS 6-12
TEST CYP.(TTOKKYO)@600mg A WEEK - MON.THURS.SUN
DECA(TTOKKYO)@600mg A WEEK - MON.&THURS.

WEEKS 13-17
D-BOL(TTOKKYO TABS)@40mg ED
TEST CYP.(TTOKKYO)@600mg A WEEK - MON.THURS.SUN
DECA(TTOKKYO)@600mg A WEEK - MON.&THURS.

WEEKS 18-24
TEST CYP.(TTOKKYO)@600mg A WEEK - MON.THURS.SUN
DECA(TTOKKYO)@600mg A WEEK - MON.&THURS.

ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO WINSTROL TABS (TTOKKYO) WAS THINKING OF MAYBE SUBING IT FOR THE D-BOL 2ND TIME AROUND

NOT TOO SURE WHERE TO THROW THE HCG IN YET I WAS THINKING AROUND WEEK 7

ALSO DO YOU GUYS RECOMMEND USING NOLVADEX THROUGHOUT THE CYCLE?

RESOURCES ARE KIND OF LIMITED AS FAR AS WHAT I CAN GET A HOLD OF,SO I DECIDED TO KEEP IT KIND OF SIMPLE.

ALSO WITH A 4500 CALORIE DIET HOW MUCH DO YOU GUYS THINK I WILL GAIN OF A CYCLE LIKE THIS?
BY THE WAY THIS IS MY 4TH CYCLE STATS ARE 6'1" 205 AT ONE POINT IN TIME I WAS 241 BUT TORE ROTATOR CUP SO HAVE BEEN OUT OF THE GYM FOR 2 MONTHS FEELING LIKE A RAISIN AT THIS POINT.
PAST CYCLES WERE
1-3
WEEKS 1-5
REFORVIT-B@35mg E.D.
SUSTANON250(TTOKKYO)@500mg A WEEK - MON.THURS.SUN
DECA@400mg A WEEK - MON.&THURS.
WEEKS 6-12
SUSTANON250(TTOKKYO)@500mg A WEEK - MON.THURS.SUN
DECA@400mg A WEEK - MON.&THURS

[Leroy Brown]

As NoLimits mentioned, this kind of regimen probably isn't a good idea for a newbie. Do a few 10-12 week cycles first, and learn how your body responds to certain drugs, etc.

[sOuLkRuShA]

As mentioned in the thread above i am not a NEWBIE this is my 4th cycle and i've been training for about 3years consistently and about 6 years on and off. my stats are 28 205( due to injury was 240) 6'1" 12%bf
So beside the fact what do you think of the cycle, do you have any suggestions?

[TTTT]

I am on my 16th week of sustanon , that is the longest I have ran a cycle.................... not much better than just going 12 weeks.

[iron4life79]

s2b and silverfox..........
thanks for taking the time to post on this topic again. hopefully when im done with my cycle, i can add some constructive info here as well.

no limits.......
24 weeks at the same doses? or did you raise and lower?

soulkrusha...........
4 cycles dosent make you a practiced aas user, but on the other side of the coin, you arent a newbie either imho. i wouldnt go on a longer run just yet. try a few more of the conventional variety 1st.....jmo though.

[NoLimits]

Originally posted by barbells79

no limits.......
24 weeks at the same doses? or did you raise and lower?

barbells79: like I stated above, I did almost the same cycle that S3B put at the top of this page, with a few changes. Yes, I fluctuated my dosages and changed compounds. I started with test/deca , then at week eight, added Eq. Then at week 17, I included fina/winny. I too ran T3 during this cycle; I never went any higher then 75mcg's (tapered up and down). Every five weeks I ran HCG at 5000iu/week.

My blood pressure was monitored closely throughout this cycle. It was elevated, but not to the point that I needed to worry. I will have blood work done the end of February, prior to starting it up again in April.

I could list exactly what my cycle was, but shorty2big’s example is damn close.

[iron4life79]

thanks bro............i appreciate the info. i guess i missed the part about you doing s2b's cycle, or being fairly close.

you did the same thing im doing now, fluctuating the dosages and changing compounds on a regular interval. the only difference is im going to stay on about 60 weeks total.

peace bb79

[NoLimits]

barbells79; good luck with it. "60 weeks" over a year on... please let me know how it goes from time to time. Keep your blood pressure monitored and listen to your body...!

[mmaximus25]

This is my run from the past 2ysr to current I actually didn't record the first 15-20 weeks... Mine is not like the previous posts but You must realize I had an epiphany.. I actually figured out that before this stagger I had done enough gear in 6mo to equal what the past 2 yrs consist of, I have come back solid, full, and stronger on lower dose.
I'm just putting the total grams and mgs, any one that want to know the detailed I'll PM...
My goal now is to have my blood work and heart graphed every two or three months this year...
started record in Jan/01: @ about 190lb lets just say the law had something to do with my weight, for almost 7mo bearly got 2000 cals a day
//wk 1-4
d-bol-600mg
Norandren-2g
//wk 1-10
t-400-4g
nolva-420mg
//wk 1-4
norandren-2400mg
winny-1g
//wk 1-10
t-200-2g
nolva-400mg
//wk 1-5
winny-1g
d-bol-600mg
//wk 1-3
HCG -15000iu
//wk 1-10
aratest-2500mg
nolvs-500mg
//wk 1-10
norandren-2g----year 02 came about back @ about 215
d-bol 625mg
//wk 1-10
t-100-3g
t-200-3g
nolva-210mg
//wk 1-5
d-bol-liquid 875mg
winny-1g
//wk 1-2
hcg-10000iu
//wk 1-3
t-100-3g
d-bol/liquid-375mg
//wk 1-4
norandren-2g
//wk 1-3
prop-1g
d-bol-525mg
nolva-210mg
//wk 1-4
norandren-2g
//wk 1-8-underdosed st250
st250-2g
prop-1g
nolva-700mg
//wk 1-8---current in jan/03- weight 220-225lb
norandren-4g
d-bol/liquid-700mg
my lean weight could have been more than 25lb the 1st yr but a friend got me into doing some modeling for side money and dieting down would take is toll...I didn't plan so much what to take I always knew the test was going to be prop or enanthate and the anabolics were gonna be winn and deca , the d-bol is the easiest for me to get nolva is just expensive for me but I had to plan because of my affinity to test...

[mmaximus25]

I should also mention the year and a half before I started the stagger above I was at 250 @ a 25%bf and the in the first year from this I came to 230 @ 15% with in the 1st 6mo. I would diet to 220 9% once and then to 215 6% for a shoot... 1-1/2 years before starting the stagger above @ age 22, when mega dosing I went from 215 to 250 in 6 mo. I thought I would try and compete but got cut short with money and legal issues. My theory then was to switch from androgenic to anabolic two times to make a cycle then start again. It worked for me tremendously... so I brought that theory over into my lower dose stagger. I should also mention my cal intake then was never lower than 5000 unless dieting... I had to force feed myself... I realize now that to grow big you have to eat big and more than just your appetite but that is not always pleasant... I've learned allot from screwing up and I know what I want and that’s not to be 250lbs. I want to be 230 with a matured physic @ 9% BF. I would like to have 230 as a base and have to diet down to 225 @ 6% and 220 @4-3% bf.

[mmaximus25]

brands used:
d-bol-loeffler/ reforvit 25mg @50ml, British Dispensary 5mg tabs
deca -tornel,brovel
propionate -brovel
enanthate -brovel,tornel
st250-tornel underdosed by 1 to 2.5ml
t-400-D&k
stanozolic-Anabolic ST, D&K
Tamofaxin-50tabs at 10mg Never go the bottle or box but can find out
HCG -brovel 10,000iu @10ml

[mmaximus25]

soulkrusha... This is not directed to you but if you have a good feel for the androgens your taking and can experiment with the doses to find your optimum use in gram or milligram you will benifit more with the long cycle... example a have a strong affinity to test any test at 500mg and I'm suffering sides quickly...not everyone is like that... so get a good feel for each that you do, any keep on learning bro...

1. I believe people should master the stacks first, because there is enough data out there that you can compare to… If your gains don’t match the data you begin to look for the problem. Most of the time its diet.
2. After you have a mediocre feel for the androgens you should begin to use them individually to see the reality in results to definition of androgen ..(did you retain some water, was your blood pressure high)
3. Then begin a stagger with in a cycle and keep track of your doses and diet…
4. Then begin a formal stagger of androgens. Switch in a pattern per type and dose. Couple your androgens with the use of nolvadex , Proviron , and HCG …

[shorty2big]

everyone's information is greatly welcomed and appreciated. This has been an amazing thread.
S2B

[The Butcher]

Whew. It took forever to read all of this. I've had comments on almost everything, but have forgotten half of them by now. So, here's my .02 as a 60+ week user.

First off, the basics of my cycle have been that I will always have a test base. This includes my "off" periods when i am not really taking anything else (usually for no more than 4 weeks). At the low end, my weekly test intake has been 750mg. 1500mg/week on the high end. On top of the test I will usually do something like S2B did. Stack an oral and another injectable with it, usually Deca , Eq, or primobolan . On the high end, my weekly intake of everything has been around 2500mg to 3000mg. Low end is the aforementioned 750mg test intake. If I'm taking d-bol or A50, I'm in a bulking phase, and if I am taking Winny, I'm in a cutting phase. I try to keep my diet clean year round, with a cheat day every Sunday and on Holidays (gotta live a little ya know). During the past year and a half I have only gone completely clean for 4 weeks at a time, and I have only done this 2 times.

Here is what I have noticed: My weight has fluctuated from 270lbs, to 300lbs and everywhere in between about 5 times during this period. That is mostly due to the bulking or cutting "phases" of my cycle. Currently, I am at 285lbs. However, I look bigger now at 285 than I did at 300. Big veins in your arms and striations in your muscles have a tendency to make you look alot bigger than when you are actually heavier but bloated. The most notable effect of this cycle (I never meant to cycle this long, it just kinda happened) is that I look much better than when I started even though my weight is really not that much more. Just like Nolimits said, the best thing about a long cycle is that it makes you muscles look far more mature. Even though I weighed 280lbs a year and a half ago, my arms look SOOOO much better. I have veins in my quads that I have never seen before, my back is much thicker, chest is full, biceps have thick veins running through them, and overall I look noticeably bigger. I know this b/c I have a picture of myself from back then, and a picture of myself now and you can tell a big difference.

Another interesting note on all of this is that I quit cold turkey (with the exception of 15000 i.u. of hcg and some arimidex ) two months ago, and I have actually managed to gain a few pounds. I look just as good now as I did two months ago. I plan on trying a little AM d-bol stack for a month while I'm clean just for shits and giggles, but after that I plan on doing another long cycle. And this time I will probably keep my doses a little lower. I was thinking of keeping the test at 750mg/week, Deca at 400mg/week, EQ at 300mg/week, d-bol in the 40 to 50 mg/day range, etc. This is about half of what I would take previously, but I really don't think I will get any less gains by cutting my doses in half. I would much rather gain 10lbs of muscle in 6 weeks and keep it, than gain 20lbs of muscle, fat, and water in the same time period only to have to take off the 10lbs of fat and water. Perhaps this is because I am getting older and have a more discerning eye concerning physiques. I'm no longer in the bigger is better regardless of compostion school of thought.

Thanks to everyone for putting their input in on this thread. It has been very informative, and everyone has been very helpful.

[BASK8KACE]

I don't see why there would be any big problem with long cycles (other than the ones we already know are associated with cycling). Here's why:

Doctors prescribe 200mg per week of testosterone year round for HRT (hormone replacement therapy) patients. They have no major complications from the year round testosterone shots. So, If you do a cycle and then drop back down (post-cycle) to maintaining 200mg of testosterone per week (a proven, therapeutic dose) then, I don't see why there would be any long term problems caused by the bridge of 200mg of testosterone per week. The only complications to worry about would be the problems we already know can be associated with cycling in general. In other words a bridge is probably not an issue at all--if it's kept low enough; the problems probably only lie in what cycles you do after each bridge.

If the whole point of taking clomid (etcetera) post cycle is to get natural test levels back to normal between cycles, then bridging forever with a therapeutic level dose of testosterone (200mg per week) between major cycles, would seem like it would be fine.

There may be a problem, only if the bridge between each cycle is much higher than 200mg every week.

[m16a2]

Originally posted by 4plates
i think if i were to run an 16-24 wk cycle i would definitly try to incorperate 2-3 cycles in 1,so the body dosent get accustomed to certain types of gear.might sound stupid but heres what i would do,
wks 1-5 drol or dbol
wks 1-10 prop 100 mg ed
wks 1-10 deca 600 mg wk( HGC)
wks 8-16 enethate 800 mg
wks 8-16 eq 800 mg (hgc)
wks 16-24 prop 150 mg ed
wks 16-24 tren 80-160 mg ed
wks 16-24 winny 50-100 mg ed
(HGC)
clomid 2 days out

Week 8-10 you would be one sore brother. 100 mg prop ed, 800 mg enan, 800 mg eq = 15 CC's per wk... rotating sites once/wk i'd say 6 cc's to the glutes, but I wouldn't know what to do with the extra 9 cc's

[mmaximus25]

I had an interesting thought spurred from a pasted thread.... I use HCG as a cold winter start... Meaning I take HCG only to put my testes back in production so they don't forget how to work but because there isn't true HPTA achieved I wonder if this could cause them to always need a stimulant such as HCG... I'm going to Incorporate clomid which have only used rarely due to cost... but this will make the Pituitary and Testes achieve a true messaging connection and whether or not my assumption is true about my yearly intake of AS and only using HCG. I won’t ever find out.... I can say that I am fairly sure I've never had a true problem with T production....at age 16 my T levels were a premature 1225 natural (I was the bully) which is close to normal and then about 8 weeks after a d-bol/deca cyc when 24 my T levels were consistently at 780ish to 840ish ng/dl always higher towards the end of the week dunno why I forgot why the Doc said...
A good test would be to get off and see were my natural T production is being a few weeks from 27 yrs old. I wonder if there starting to go down yet... My old Doc concluded that because of my natural production of T, This is the reason I have such an affinity to Test and have an enormous reaction a low doses such as 200mgs of enanthate ... anyway... now I'm rambling

[animal instinct]

This is one of the best threads I have ever read on any board. I have a question, do you guys think that Fina would be best used early on or later in, a longer cycle?

[TheDarkSide]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by animal instinct
[B]This is one of the best threads I have ever read on any board



jep i still love this tread is there not enyone ells who will like to share
his/her long cycle

[animal instinct]

Originally posted by TheDarkSide

jep i still love this tread is there not enyone ells who will like to share
his/her long cycle [/B]

Well, since you askede I am thinking about starting this cycle in Feb:

Week 1-8 300mg Primo
Week 1-8 300mg EQ
Week 1-8 50mg Winny ED
Week 1-8 Clen +T3/ECA (2 week alternating)

Week 8-16 100mg EQ EOD
Week 8-16 75mg Prop EOD
Week 8-16 75mg Fina EOD
Week 8-16 50mg Proviron ED
Week 8-16 2.5mg Bromo ED (Spilt daily)

Week 16-18 2500 iu’s HCG
Week 19-22 300/100/50 Clomid

[wrstlr69sdnl]

I have gone with longer cycles because most people on this tread have said they get better results on it good thread thanks

[wrstlr69sdnl]

I have gone with longer cycles because most people on this tread have said they get better results on it good thread thanks

[mmaximus25]

I said it before and heard it from some one else but my body is to me as a car is to a mechanic... We are dealing with the best machine ever made, and we all have a little biochemist trying to get out... people may ask why but because they ask they will never understand, to some its the pure joy of pain, others the mirror and the hot chicks, but for me how you can change the machine, yeah you can burn it up like sheering a clutch but that’s why were here to help each other. I am a yearly AS user… I don’t advocate this method to the newbies but the vet users and 2 & 3 yearly trialed cycler's, the ones that have figured out what androgens that work best for them, but not to the newbie lads.... I too love this post, adios see ya in tha gym Lads

[Bigjohnstud1]

12-16 weeks would be good

[redrumkev]

I am trying the longer cycle with low dosages now.

3 weeks in - 15 weeks left. I have saved this thread and will post at the end my good/bad of it and sides if any - plus the lenght of shut down and recovery post cycle as compared to my 1st cycle with just deca and test.
This one includeds. EQ/CYP/TREN /PROP/WINNY - T3/Clen /Eca.

Alot of compounds cycled through out.

[popa]

i like this thread..lets bump this back up

[BigGreen]

This thread is absolutely amazing...it alone has more info than the entirety of many boards. Is there any way to get it doubled up into the Educational Threads? I'm bumping this with the hope of one day soon having something meaningful to contribute to what's already been said so well.

[iron4life79]

im extremely pleased that this thread is still hanging around.

seems like every time it fades someone comes along and reads it and posts on it.

s2b is right, this has been an amazing ride...........

peace IFL79

[POLISH OX 69]

I do 2 on 3 off all year long. I keep almost EVERYTHING I gain. I dont even use clomids at the end. NO shut down occurs for me. In fact i get more horny then ever! Even after the cycle. Its time to break through the traditional long cycles and think outside the box. Try it! I wont do it any other way. I usually hit it like this:

week 1 500 MG Deca 200mg Primo
week 2 400 MG Deca 200mg Primo
week 3 NOTHING DONE with cycle

or i hit

week 1 500mg Sustanon 200 primo
week 2 500mg Sustanon 200 primo
week 3 nothing i am done

I have had positive result. No water retention. The primo takes all the water out and hardenes the gains. Dont expect to gain 10 lbs on this. If your diet is on target and you train hard you can realistically gain 4-7lbs of solid muscle. After completion you will keep 3-6lbs of this even if you stop taking anything for the next 6 weeks. Keeping in mind that u work out and eat right. Short cycles work and there are no side effects. I have had nothing but success everytime. I used to do 8 weeks or 12 weeks. But all the mass i gained eventually slipped away. i didnt get to keep it for long. Now i only gain a few pounds here and there but i get to keep it. Even if im off the sauce for 4 months. What u guys arent realizing is that its a tremendous shock for the body to all the suden gain 20 lbs in 8 weeks. Its unatural and your body cant adjust to that. Plus your natural test is completly shut down for a long time if you are on that long. You have to be patient. Take the sauce but trick your body into thinking its a natural process and it will accept a few lbs here and there. But if u try to force your body to put on 20 lbs it will know its not natural and it wont accept it. I am speaking from my results. Im 200lbs i started at 180. I havent taken anything in 6 months im 199lbs. In a course of 2 years i put on 20 lbs. Thats natural for the body to accept and keep! I would never load myself with juice for long periods and gain 20-30 lbs and then only keep it for a couple of months. I'd rather make quality gains that i can keep.

And to all you guys that say short cycles are BAD!!! BE REAL unless u try it, dont be MR. Theorist/Jungle DR and talk shit about it. Cause IT WORKS AND IT WORKS WELL! It just takes time. I am in it for the long term gains that i can keep. I tried it and it worked really well. Dont talk shit unless you tried it and nothing happened.

[BDTR]

52 weeks on, 12 weeks off.

[palme]

Bump i love this thread!

Im on a 30w+ atm and loving it!

[asiancuts]

wow, nice thread, very informative. bump for anyone else