If Your on Fina READ THIS

[Shredder]

Ive pasted this from BBislife.com by lawnsaver. Written by Fonz.
Here is an avenue that has not been explored in this thread: The potential relationship between trenbolone , thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) and prolactin. TRH stimulates the synthesis and release of thyrotropin (thyroid stimulating hormone) from the pituitary. Thyrotropin in turn stimulates the release of the thyroid hormones. A negative feedback loop exists whereby low levels of T4 stimulate the release of TRH (1).

It has been established that in humans TRH is also capable of stimulating the release of prolactin (2). In hypothyroid patients there is often an elevation of TRH and prolactin due to diminished levels of T4. (3) Galactorrhea often presents as a symptom of hypothyroidism.

In sheep, administration of trenbolone acetate results in 45% decrease in thyroxine levels (4). This should exert a stimulatory effect on TRH. ( Interestingly, the same study shows that unlike in humans prolactin levels in the sheep remained unchanged. This is due to the fact that in sheep, unlike in humans, TRH and prolactin are secreted independently of each other (5).)

If it assumed that trenbolone acetate also lowers thyroxine levels in humans, the resulting rise in TRH would stimulate prolactin release, leading to galactorrhea and gynecomastia .

Due to the lack of human studies involving tren , we are all forced to speculate, and try to extrapolate from animal studies.



(1)Endocrinology 1999 Jan;140(1):43-9

Feedback regulation of thyrotropin-releasing hormone gene expression by thyroid hormone in the caudal raphe nuclei in rats.

Yang H, Yuan P, Wu V, Tache Y.
Digestive Diseases Research Center, West Los Angeles VA Medical Center, Department of Medicine and Brain Research Institute, UCLA, California 90073, USA. [email protected]

(2)Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics 8th ed. pp.1345-1346

(3) : Endocr J 1997 Feb;44(1):89-94

Incidence of hyperprolactinemia in patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
Notsu K, Ito Y, Furuya H, Ohguni S, Kato Y.
Department of Medicine, Shimane Prefectural Central Hospital, Izumo, Japan.

(4)Res Vet Sci 1981 Jan;30(1):7-13

Growth hormone , insulin , prolactin and total thyroxine in the plasma of sheep implanted with the anabolic steroid trenbolone acetate alone or with oestradiol.

Donaldson IA, Hart IC, Heitzman RJ.

(5) Endocrinol 1988 Apr;117(1):115-22

Release of prolactin is independent of the secretion of thyrotrophin-releasing hormone into hypophysial portal blood of sheep.

Thomas GB, Cummins JT, Yao B, Gordon K, Clarke IJ.
Medical Research Centre, Prince Henry's Hospital, Melbourne, Australia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes, finally!!! you hit the nail right on the head.

Fina is a VERY POWERFUL anti-glucocorticoid, so what
exactly does it do to reduce endogeneous cortisone
levels?

There is only ONE mechanism:

A reduction in the TOTAL Free T4 and T3 levels within the
body.

T3 is HIGHLY catabolic to muscle, therefore by reducing it by(
take 45% as shown by Nandi as an example), you are
exerting a ridiculously high protein-sparing effect.

YES, thats right, Fina is not THAT anabolic IN VIVO, it is
far, and I do mean FAR more of an ANTI-CATABOLIC
AAS than anything else.

Ok, now lets back-track to the problem at hand.

TSH has been reduced by the trenbolone, which in
turns signals the thyroid to reduce endogeneously
produced levels of T3 and T4.

This reduction(As Nandi mentioned) causes a VERY
sharp drop in free T3 levels because of the reduction
in both the endogeneously produced T4 and T3.
(Remember that 80% of the free T3 is produced from
the metabolically inactive T4)

These dimished levels of T3,T4 cause Thyrotropin Releasing
Hormone(TRH) to become OVER-STIMULATED.

In essence, this is your bodies feed-back loop to reduced
thyroid hormones, due to a GLUCO-CORTICOID suppresive
effect. This is however NOT like hypothyroidic patients
who have a naturally defective(or damaged) thyroid.

When TRH becomes over-stimulated the net effect is
a VERY sharp increase in prolactin levels.

Critical here.....

I.E. YOU BEGIN TO LACTATE!!!!!

Now, herein lies the problem. Everybody is bio-chemically
different, therefore the TRH increase is EXTREMELY
broad-spectrum.

While someone will stimulate TRH say X% and ultimately
cause a rise in prolactin of say Y% with a daily
dosage of 50mg ED of Fina, another person will
cause a 2X% rise in TRH and 2Y+% rise in prolactin
which will invariably lead to gyno.

This is just genetics. Nothing can be done about this.

However, there are ways to combat prolactin-elevations:

This btw, HAS TO BE EXACT. If you over-dose you cause
a progestenic shift due to severely inhibited prolactin levels,
or if you under-dose you run the risk of getting prolactin
induced gyno.

As a note: PROGESTERONE does NOT, I repeat NOT come into
play with Fina at all. It only becomes into play when you're
trying to inhibit prolactin synthetically.

The only thing that can combat Fina-induced Gyno is:

1. 2.5mgs Bromocriptine broken down to 1.25mgs 2X/day
AM and PM.

Thats it.

No Vitex/Nolva/Clomid/Arimidex or whatever. They don't
work for Fina.

Those would work well with Deca . Winny would be the only help I would see with A-drol. That is one crazy substance.

Peace

[ShowBiz]

Damn good read Bro. Being that there's not much research on Fina.
ShowBiz

[Nathan]

Yeah but it's also from some other guy not just FONZ, who's a retard if ya ask me. I still can't believe he tried to sell DNP to anorexic girls on an anorexic discussion board. That is fucked up.

[Iron horse]

anorexic girls? trying to sell dnp to them? I'd shoot the mother fucker if i new him. I dont have tolerence for jokes are encouraging eating disorders since i've experienced one with someone very close for a while.

[basskiller]

I thought the vitex was being used for the fina dick anyways!

[big N]

so wait ,if u begin to lactate ,whats the only thing that can help where to u get it?so u run at risk of gyn and lactating right when ur on or after your off it?

[Bigk]

1. 2.5mgs Bromocriptine broken down to 1.25mgs 2X/day
AM and PM.


What is it? Sorry for the ignorance and laziness.

[XBiker]

Originally posted by big N
so wait ,if u begin to lactate ,whats the only thing that can help where to u get it?so u run at risk of gyn and lactating right when ur on or after your off it?

Although I do not understand the first part of your question, I can answer the second part.

Due to tren 's short half life, most of the negative side effects subside very quickly once you stop taking the substance.

Unfortunately, I found this out myself just recently.

[THEGAME187]

HUH??

[PaPaPumP]

Originally posted by Iron horse
anorexic girls? trying to sell dnp to them? I'd shoot the mother fucker if i new him. I dont have tolerence for jokes are encouraging eating disorders since i've experienced one with someone very close for a while.

Ya....he was dead serious....


This is your face ------>

[Shredder]

ive been on fina now for 12 weeks and i got 3 more weeks to go. i just got some bromo and will update on how good it will be on recovering.

[Shredder]

I got more info regarding prolactin. This one I got from T-mag.com


Lost: One Sex Drive. Answers to the name of "Woody"

Q: Is there anything a person can do to get his sex drive back after a cycle? Even with Clomid this seems to take a while.

A: If you simply want to increase the urge to have sex, then you can go with clomiphene along with bromocriptine or something like vitex which is found in Biotest's M. The reason is simply because these substances are dopamine agonists which can lower the production of prolactin (prolactin decrease sex drive and is often elevated after a cycle of Testosterone and other androgens). When prolactin is decreased, sex drive can increase rather dramatically. (There was even a case in the UK where a man sued the makers of bromocriptine since it gave him an uncontrollable sex drive.)

So why should we care about inhibiting prolactin secretion? Let me explain. First off, estrogen and prolactin are related in terms of their release. In other words, when estrogen rises, so does prolactin. Who gives a rat's ass? You should for a few reasons, one being that it decreases LH and Testosterone. There's also a good amount of evidence suggesting prolactin is partially responsible for the degree of sensitivity in terms of gonadal steroid feedback (negative feedback) and may even regulate the sensitivity of the gonads to stimulation by LH.

In one study researchers took eleven normal men and studied them both during hyperprolactinemia and hypoprolactinemia. What they found was that LH rose in a state of hypoprolactinemia. However, in men, it's been shown time and time again that elevated prolactin leads to decreased gonadotropin levels (LH).

Furthermore, in a study with men who had elevated prolactin levels, they decided to measure the effect of hCG (acts like LH) administration on Testosterone production. What they found was that in hyperprolactinemic men, their response to hCG administration (measured in terms of Testosterone levels ) was significantly lower than that of men with normal prolactin levels. When they treated the individuals with hyperprolactinemia and reduced prolactin levels, they found the increase in Testosterone after hCG administration was much higher.

So you think your prolactin levels will never rise? Think again. If your Testosterone rises (and thus estrogen rises via conversion by the aromatase enzyme), your prolactin will rise as well. Furthermore, prolactin has been shown to rise in times of stress. As we know, the combination of everyday life and bodybuilding can produce a large amount of stress. On a side note, this once again confirms to me that methandrostenolone (D-bol) increases dopamine levels and thus increases sex drive.

[AZlifter]

Good read!

Is Bromocriptine a controlled or non-controlled substance? What kind of prices does this stuff run? I may want to run some post-cycle

[testaprim]

A little Info on Bromocriptine: dont think it is controlled however it is a prescription drug.

Bromocriptine is a well-established drug for two conditions, increased levels of the hormone prolactine and Parkinson's. The best-known brand name is Parlodel. The standard tablet dosage is 2.5 mg.

Bromocriptine primarily works on the brain, making a person more receptive for sexual stimulation and creating a frame of mind for more powerful orgasms. Both effects are a logical consequence of the way, bromocriptine is traditionally used… to lower levels of the hormone prolactin, and to increase levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine.

Bromocriptine is a prescription drug most everywhere, though in many countries of the world, prescription drugs can be bought over-the-counter. In countries where prescription drugs are indeed only sold on prescriptions, it is within a physician's discretion to prescribe a drug for conditions for which it has not originally been approved.

Also a common side effect is nausea

[LewdTenant]

looks like I need to jump on the bandwagon. i ran fina for 12 weeks with GH/test prop and I had the most sore nips in the world I ran 1mg/day arimidex and 20mg/day nolvadex it did nada. but when I stopped my cycle symptoms and nipple hardness were gone

Lewd

[JP1570]

I'm starting fina in a few wks, where can I get some bromo??

[AZlifter]

I heard that!!!!!!!! Where is this bromo located?

Sounds like you only need it if you get sore nips or you begin to lactate....at any rate it is good info to have!

[LewdTenant]

I know a couple of places.

Lewd

[Shredder]

bumpin this for the other bros

[adaptations]

Wait, so you may experience hard/sore nipple while on FINA? but it will go away once your off????

[LewdTenant]

Originally posted by adaptations
Wait, so you may experience hard/sore nipple while on FINA? but it will go away once your off????

for me it did. I was scred as hell with my nipple hardenss and they were sore as hell for weeks but I continued my cycle and figured that 1mg/day ldex and 20mg/day nolva would stop what was progressing.

also note I ran arimidex 1mg/day post cycle with clomid

Lewd

[bigjim33]

good info

[ECFATCAT]

Hey Lets Jump back To the thyroid problem....I hav a Hypothyroid .......
Its been the source of a lot of problemz ....Doc gave me synthroid not andro at all not in the dose I have .....I jst don't even take it ....makes it hard to burn fat ...

But dose this mean fina won't Give me Gyno..........?

will T3 & t4 Have a monster effect on me of what.......?

Dose this Mean fina wont work for .....? (or will it be bomb with know sides )............fuck this could be really great or it could suck ass.

Just found source for cartriges.


Help !!!!!!

[LewdTenant]

Originally posted by Shredder
No Vitex/Nolva/Clomid/Arimidex or whatever. They don't
work for Fina.

Been there. done that. got the gyno symptoms. (until 5 days after I ended my fina)

1mg/day ldex
20mg/day nolva
vitex
hit some clomid for some time

no help.

I got some bromo this time round.

[LewdTenant]

bromo is pretty cheap. i do not know th rules on posting that info so I will not post prices I've seen from two sources. But I would treat bromo like all anti-e's if you are going to do fina get it BEFORE your cycle starts. I'm doing 100mg/day fina instead of my usual 80mg/day so I am on that bromo starting today been on fina 1 week

I am going to PM fonz why doses are 1.25mg twice per day instead of 2.5mg/day at one time. I'll also check my PDR and see the half life listed.

Lewd

[LewdTenant]

best I could find on my PDR CD-ROM is that you should take 2 doses for maximum effect 1.25mg twice per day with a snack.

this link may interest you.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...mic202094.html

http://home.intekom.com/pharm/apotex/a-bromcr.html

half life is 6 hours so yes take it twice daily:
http://www.wemove.org/par_dra.html

I also read some studies on how superior Cabergoline (Dostinex®) is but it is difficult to get and I was tolfd very expensive.dosage would only be a few times per week.


i also have downloaded Lyle Mcdonald's Bromo e-book. 9MB zip file. I forgot where I got it.

[LewdTenant]

http://www.drugstore.com/qxn00013700...x/Dostinex.htm

sure it is cheaper with a copay....


Lewd

[LewdTenant]

bromocriptine_L_McDonald_E-Book.zip

9MB file I started sharing on kazaa.

Lewd

[Shredder]

Havent tried dostinex but it seems like a more stronger drug. Its still new. Wait a while and cheaper pharms should start to carry it.

[the original jason]

how about the side effect that bromo has been shown to lower gh in some adults? I wonder about this as no one has mentioned it and if some people are paying out thousands on kits and then running fina and bromo with it it may be reducing the gh. Bromo is used as a cure for acromegaly any ideas??

peace

from medline

Bromocriptine is also used to treat acromegaly (overproduction of growth hormone) and pituitary prolactinomas (tumors of the pituitary gland).

[the original jason]

by the way its ran at the same dosage at first for stoping acromegaly

For lowering growth hormone (acromegaly):
Adults and teenagers 15 years of age or older--At first, 1.25 to 2.5 milligrams (mg) once a day taken at bedtime with a snack for three days. Then your doctor may change your dose by 1.25 or 2.5 mg every three to seven days as needed. Doses greater than 5 mg are divided into smaller doses and taken with meals or at bedtime with a snack.
Teenagers less than 15 years of age and children--Use and dose must be determined by your doctor.

[the original jason]

any ideas anyone?

[hammerhead]

Thanks for the enlightenment. Bromocriptine sounds like another miracle worker that I could use post-cycle. I've found something called Suplac from Biolab and another one called Parlodel from Novartis and they're between 1 and 2 dollars per pill respectively. That's a little steep to me but hey - arimidex isn't cheap either (niether is gear!)

[LewdTenant]

I would not run bromo with GH I think...

but fina does raise IGF-1 levels which is what you are trying to achieve when you use GH.I have to look into the amount of suppression bromo causes.

I no longer run GH so luckily this is not a concern for me.

The half life of bromo is 6 hours so perhaps you could shoot the GH about 8 hours after your first dose if you are doing 2 doses/day bromo. That would at least help a little

Lewd

[the original jason]

parlodel is bromo same thing, I found it for 50c if you shop around its not much more expensive than clomid and worth getting if u r running fina and are prone to prog gyno, thanks for the reply lewd, I am not running bromo but did prepare to for this cycle I just never got it together I was just wondering when I was researching

peace

[Shredder]

Originally posted by The Original Jason
by the way its ran at the same dosage at first for stoping acromegaly

For lowering growth hormone (acromegaly):
Adults and teenagers 15 years of age or older--At first, 1.25 to 2.5 milligrams (mg) once a day taken at bedtime with a snack for three days. Then your doctor may change your dose by 1.25 or 2.5 mg every three to seven days as needed. Doses greater than 5 mg are divided into smaller doses and taken with meals or at bedtime with a snack.
Teenagers less than 15 years of age and children--Use and dose must be determined by your doctor.

heres my 0.2 cent. Bromo might supress Gh only if Gh levels are abnormally high like in children with Acromegaly. But so does using GH injections. That would suppress GH levels just like Bromo. So Using Bromo then adding Gh would suppress natural GH release but it wont do nothing with the synthetic high dose Gh in your system. I dont see anything wrong going GH w/ bromo. But I would only use bromo as part of a recovery cycle post androgen cycle.

[proud13]

Shredder/The Original Jason,
Bromocriptine treats several different medical conditions including menstrual problems, growth hormone overproduction, Parkinson's disease, and pituitary tumors. It's also used to stop breast milk production which the desired effect of fina users.

Although this seems great especially about how it could sto the breast milk production or (prolactin induced gyno) it can hamper GH release. I am unsure of how long it hampers or stops the GH release but the sides are pretty bad as well; mild nausea, vomiting, or abdominal cramps, diarrhea or constipation, headache, dizziness (especially when rising from a sitting or lying position), or drowsiness, dry mouth and nasal stuffiness. I have heard at least 3 people who have suffered from the nausea and dizzineess and stopped taking it completely.

In my own personal opinion I don't believe it is worth risking the cost of a GH kit to be taking Bromo with it. Vitex, I believe is a much better choice. Bromo prevents/reduces prolactin production but Vitex simply blocks it. Similar to how Arimidex and Nolvadex act (the first of which is an anti-aromatase and the second is an anti-estrogen, respectively). However, post cycle for a short period of time (2 wks possibly) along with HCG /Clomid therapy, I don't think that would be that bad, considering how short you're on it.

Price expected to pay should be around: Bromocriptine 100 tablets 2.5mg $US65.00

[LewdTenant]

Vitex will increase prolactin levels at certain doses. I will stay away from that crap since I tried it last cycle and it did not help. My nipples were so damn sore. My GF pinched them and I almost RAGED on her.I am doing 100mg/day fina as oppsed to 80mg/day fina last cycle and no probs as of now.This is when my nips started to get sore last cycle.

perhaps you can use bromo like nolva and save it for when symptoms occur and run it till last day of clomid.

I am sticking with bromo since I know that it will NOT exacerbate the problem by increasing prolactin levels. Reading posts on vitex in the past the consensus opinion was not in agreement that it did work for fina gyno.

but we all have our preferences. I just know vitex does not work for ME. So I use bromo and will keep you updated.

Lewd

[Shredder]

Oldie but goodie classic...bump!!!!!

[dragon69]

When prolactin is decreased, sex drive can increase rather dramatically. (There was even a case in the UK where a man sued the makers of bromocriptine since it gave him an uncontrollable sex drive.)

Amongst other things Prolactin causes your erection to go away and hide after an orgasm. Prolactin rise IS THE CAUSE OF FINA DICK.

....when estrogen rises, so does prolactin.

....If your Testosterone rises (and thus estrogen rises via conversion by the aromatase enzyme), your prolactin will rise as well.

Absolutely. So, that being said, PREVENTING estrogen rise ALSO prevents prolactin rise as well.
So Arimidex , proviron and Letro WOULD be helpfull for sure here. Letro would be particularly effective here as it suppresses both estrogen and progesterone so the suppression of prolactin would be greater as well.

However, one thing I do NOT agree with is the use of bromo. It is far too dangerous in a psychological sense, causing many long term disturbances that trust me you don't want.
Use your arimidex, proviron or letro and I've heard some B6 as well is effective.