07-08-2002, 04:33 PM #1
mg for mg which is the best test?
cyp, enant, prop, which ester weighs the least and which weighs the most, just curious which test you'll actually get the most mgs of test from...(excluding suspension). i heard that sust you actually get 186 instead of 250 because of the esters? thanks
07-08-2002, 05:01 PM #2
I know you get the most out of suspension but I'm not sure about the others...
07-08-2002, 10:15 PM #3
yah me either, heh. bump i guess? i dunno i tried looking up the esters on the net and i couldn't find their molar masses or molecular weights, so i was assed out, again if anyone knows that'd be great...thanks
07-08-2002, 10:19 PM #4
I would think that the less concentrated tests would be better for absorbtion. I think the more mgs/ml it is, the less your body can actually absorb from it. I did NOT read this in a study or anything, but it just seems reasonable. I could be way off on this one.......
So, my vote goes for prop and phenyl-prop as they usually come in 50-100mg vs. Enanth/Cyp/Sust which are usually 200+mg in each ml. And you can forget about T400. Even if you absorb it, you won't be able to move that muscle for a couple days due to the rediculously high amounts of BA.
Just food for thought. Once again, none of what I said has any scientific backing. Just personal experiences and theories..... I'm high right now. Shut up and good night.
07-08-2002, 11:51 PM #5
The prop ester weight should be the least so you should get more actual test. There is a post on another board that actually tells you how much test you actually get per different ester weight. I will try to find the link later but it is to late tonight.
07-09-2002, 11:36 AM #6
thanks gona be huge and rickson, i would appreciate that link. and i thought prop or phenyl would be too, simply because their esters are removed the quickest, but that doesn't mean that their the lightest esters...but its definately a possability. find me that link, i'm very interested, thanks again
07-09-2002, 12:54 PM #7
are you saying test suspention is the best???
07-09-2002, 09:56 PM #8
Here it is dj I hope it helps.
Not a week goes by that I don't get personal email questions from people about how to make high mg per ml gear. There are also lots of these posts on the boards so I'm taking a moment to clear a couple of things up.
1. Most hormones have a pretty low solubility in oil.
2. The primary ways to increase solubilty are to A) add sovent (BA or EA).
B) Add an ester to the hormone. The longer the ester the more hormone will fit in the oil at a certian mg per ml ratio. Conversely, the weight of the ester is also factored in the total mg per ml ratio, so while you can fit more hormone in, you are getting less actual hormone than the mg amount implies. Here are some examples:
Ester actual mg/100mg dose
test no ester 100
tren acetate 87
test prop 83
test enanth 72
test cyp 70
test undecan 63
nand phenyl 67
nand deca 64
This means that if your test cyp says 200 mgs per ml you get an actual 140 mgs of test. The rest of the weight is the weight of the ester. If that sounds like a bad deal you need to understand that test no ester is VERY insoluble in oil without going to very high mg per ml solvent concentrations.
This brings up the next point; PAIN!
Why do some shots hurt? There are two primary reasons. One, the solvent ratio is too high. Anything over about 10% starts to hurt. BA and EA are VERY inflamatory to the tissues. Thats why you want ONLY enough to help your oil hold more gear but not so much that it causes inflamation.
The second reason is that the gear chrystalizes in the depot. This is precisely why water based suspensions feel like hammer blows. The water is absorbed FAST, leaving the gear to chrystalize in the tisses=PAIN. Even gear in oil can do this, here is how it works. If you use a low ester weight attached to your gear and make the mg per ml ratio SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the oil will hold on it's own, what happens is the body absorbs the solvent faster than the oil/gear and the gear falls out of the solution and chrystalizes in the depot and WHAM, it hurts like hell. An optimum solution has just enough solvent to get more gear into solution than you could otherwise, but not so much that what I just stated happens. When the ratios are correct the gear holds in the solution UNTIL the whole depot is absorbed and very little or no pain is felt. Just to end this misconception once and for all IT IS NOT THE VOLUME OF THE OIL THAT CUASES THE PAIN, IT IS ONE OF THE CONDITIONS STATED ABOVE. You can shoot 5 cc's of sterile oil and never know you took a shot. It IS NOT HOW MUCH OIL YOU SHOOT! So why does everyone search for super high mg per ml ratio gear like it's the damn holy grail???
What is too high? Well the lenght of the ester is really what determines that but most of us here know the gear that hurts and know we know why. All tests over 250 mgs per ml hurt, and actually most of the 250 mg tests hurt too. SOOOO many people whant there tren at 150-200 mgs per ml. Tren acetate should be at about what????? 75 mgs per ml. That is why all the kits are designed this way. Do you really think it's cheaper for the kit producers to add MORE oil to their kits instead of less? One other quick note. Oil is used because it SLOWS absorbtion. THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT YOU WANT IN A STEROI* SHOT! Less oil does not promote the steady state hormone levels acheived with more oil.
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