when u use something like armidex or letro, do u deminish the effectiveness of a dht based gear like eq, var, etc.?
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when u use something like armidex or letro, do u deminish the effectiveness of a dht based gear like eq, var, etc.?
it sorta sounds like they would cancel each other or at least compromise the potential of the compound
Adex and letro are not DHT blockers.
Edit .
well the description of it is that it blocks 5 alpha reductase which is I think involved with dht based gear. I could be wrong in my lamen thoughts but please explain
NO. dht derived steroids will get the full effect on the scalp, thus taking DHT blockers will do absolutely nothing against those compounds like var, winny, masteron etc...
So I am going to do a little hijack here. Are you saying DHT derived steroids do not create DHT as Test and serveral others do. I am interested vecause I need to protect my Prostate and one of the suspected (although not provem) reasons for Prostate enlargement is DHT. I want to be able to still be able to juice but not with anything that creates more DHT.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainDominate
DHT derivatives ARE DHT. The exhibit almost every characteristic of normal DHT.
No!!Quote:
Originally Posted by skipp
Primo, winny, var etc acts diffrently than DHT, in a way, that they are not converted to androstanediol(DHT). Calling a steroid a DHT-derivativ has almost nothing to do with how thay act in the body(maybe with the exeption of Proviron, which is not anabolic either). DHT has very little anabolic activity in muscle tissue.
DHT is the result of testosterone interacting with the 5alpha-reductase enzyme. The only real source of DHT is testosterone.
Vitor can you give list of compounds that you think fit the bill hereQuote:
Originally Posted by vitor
Testosterone is the only AAS that converts to DHT. If you have prostate problems you might want to avoid proviron too, since it has a structure very similar to DHT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale
Non of the other derivatives(steroids)really convert to, or act like DHT.
If you do a test free cycle your testosterone levels will drop ofcourse, right along with your DHT levels. If you use testosterone, dutasteride or proscar would be a good idea.
You are the man. I am already using Proscar but I run a low dose of Test E all the time. If I do another cycle I would just maintain that and push all the other goodies out there !!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by vitor
ok so I'm still confused. if say var or tren or eq do not turn into dht then y take a 5 alpha reductase thingamajig so that ur hair doesn't fall out? its dht that makes ur hair fall out and those compounds are notorious with making ur hair fallout
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitor
i agree to an extent,many of them dont convert to dht,but there side effects are very similar.im not sure if things like tren affect the prostate but it sure can affect your hairline in the way dht can
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale
ive often thought about using dht blockers/inhibators like proscar or finastride,but you still get some of the effects from test itself,things like body hair growth and even hairloss can still occur.which is why im gonna run uncle deca from now on with some hcg to boot.
There's a big confusion here.
The only AAS that converts to DHT is test, in this we all agree. Other steroids have affinity for the 5ar enzyme like nandrolone (converting to DHN, actually less androgenic than nandrolone. This is why it is a bad idea to block 5ar with finasteride while on deca) or boldenone aka equipoise (this one with very low affinity but converting to DHB).
All the other steroids mentioned, like proviron, var, primo, winny, are DHT derivates thus having the POTENTIAL to generate dht related sides, depending on each individual (body hair growth, hair loss, prostate enlargement, acne, etc...).
With tren it is a different story. Being a 19nor it has nothing to do with dht, but being such a strong androgen of course it is prone to produce androgenic sides.
Hope this could help you.
Exactly, taking DHT blockers will not do anything to combat DHT derived steroid side effects...Quote:
ok so I'm still confused. if say var or tren or eq do not turn into dht then y take a 5 alpha reductase thingamajig so that ur hair doesn't fall out?
Vitor hit it on the head...
Of couse that if you are taking a dht derivate it is useless to use proscar, because if the steroid already has a dht like structure it is useless to use something that prevents the steroid from transforming to its dht like structure.
A little repetitive, but understandable i think.
this is what i was aiming for without going into too much detail,but you put it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by hugovsilva
DHT is an androgen that is roughly 4-times stronger than testosterone is. DHT-related sides=androgen related sides.
All steroids are androgenic, therfor all of them will trigger hairloss, acne, body-hair-growth to a certain extent if youre prone.
These are AIs.. not DHT blockers.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
EQ is a test-derivative... not a dht-derivative.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
What are you really asking?
Do AIs affect the 'potency' of compounds with which they are simulatenously used with?
Or do DHT-'blockers'?
^^Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanBastard
No you have your compounds confused.. Letro etc. have no effect on that enzyme.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
AIs interact with the aromatase enzyme.
Ok, you're definately condusing the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
5-alpha-r reduces testosterone to dht.
DHT-based compounds are (as the name'd suggest) derived from DHT itself. 5-alpha doesn't factor in. You can't reduce DHT to DHT...
DHT-'blockers' (e.g. proscar.. not letro like you stated) have no effect on DHT-derivatives. They won't reduce the 'effectiveness' of those compounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
Makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
Not exclusively.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
Those compounds (var aside) are androgenic. Highly androgenic compounds can cause hair loss...especially in those predisposed to MPB.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
Tren is a 19-nor... not dht-derived.
EQ is test derived.. not dht-derived.
It is structurally impossible for either to convert to dht.
Get to reading buddy..It's in your best interest
Nark
DHT derived drugs or..........?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale
No if you inject winny, masteron, or take proviron you will have sides that are caused by the DHT. Obviously the only thing that can convert to dht is test, but if you just put dht in, it doesn't need to convert.Quote:
Originally Posted by vitor
If I'm wrong, then why will proviron, masteron, and winny (if you're prone to MPB) speed up the process? Because they're close enough to DHT, aka DHT derivative.
DHT is an androgen...All androgens will speed up hairloss if youre prone...The androgen recpter in the scalp is the same as the one in the muscle, a steroid will bind to the AR in the scalp, the same way it will bind to the AR in the muscle.Quote:
Originally Posted by skipp
Looks like someone has been doing their homework.Quote:
Originally Posted by vitor
ok so I messed it up but I still don't get how u can take something orally that helps keep ur hair that doesn't counteract the drug I'm taking to make me lose my hair. explain it to me like I'm stupid or just a woman
I honestly don't understand the question.
BajanBastard, i think what he meant is if it binds to muscle like it binds to the hair then when taking a "blocker" wouldn't that block it from binding to the muscle as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
Lets look at the convertion of test into DHT. If you take a 5ar blocker like proscar, you will prevent test from converting to dht. You are asking if this will counteract test, I think you want to ask if this will reduce testosterone's hability to build musce. To some extent it does, because dht besides being androgenic is also a very anabolic hormone, but I wouldn't worry about that, because you will still have great gains keeping your hair where it belongs.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
Ok the 'DHT blockers' stops testosterone and some other drugs from being reduced to their more androgenic forms (cept nandrolone). However it does not block the anabolic effects of the parent hormone.Quote:
Originally Posted by caban
that was it, thanks for the help guys. I understand and apreciate the patience. good looks bros