I wasn't sure which forum to chuck this in

**cbk** · 01-23-2011, 05:11 AM

I have a very strange hypothetical question, and before you make assumptions about why I am asking it is more because I am confused, not contemplating. People say that test is great for cutting up because it allows you to cut whilst maintaining muscle. Yet, people say you shouldn't do bulking and cutting within a single steroid cycle. I'm confused, because if test is good at retaining muscle, then why couldn't you say bulk for 5 weeks, cut with DNP for one week, and then continue on with your cycle? I've read other forum threads with people claiming that this could cost all of your gains during the cycle, yet doesn't test keep you in a constant anabolic state?

Help make me less confused!

**Tigershark** · 01-23-2011, 05:39 AM

At your age you have no reason to be wanting to use AAS. Now to answer your question either bulk or cut. If you try to do both you will go insane.
So get your diet in check then a good workout and figure out which you want to do.

**cbk** · 01-23-2011, 07:24 AM

Not only did you fail to answer the question, you also failed to read it.

**cro** · 01-23-2011, 07:35 AM

i think your cycle should be planed from the start weather you want to bulk or cut,no switching diet during ,but im no vet.

**cbk** · 01-23-2011, 07:14 PM

Yeah, definitely. I just want to understand why you shouldn't from a biological PoV. I guess there is little-no research out there in regards to this, but maybe personal experiences?

**dec11** · 01-23-2011, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by cbk

Yeah, definitely. I just want to understand why you shouldn't from a biological PoV. I guess there is little-no research out there in regards to this, but maybe personal experiences?

are you on a cycle?

**MBMETC** · 01-23-2011, 07:25 PM

A reason I see is if you up your caloric intake to bulk say for 6 weeks and then decide you wanna start cutting and significanly reduce your calories it could back fire on you as your body will be shocked from the sudden calorie deficit it will
Start to store food as fat and not burn it as energy.
You can't have it both ways

**Duckhombre** · 01-23-2011, 09:55 PM

There are many who do the the bulk-to-cut. In fact I bet 7 out of 10 contest cycles are run as such. If you are meso/ecto this works great. If you gain weight slowly, and loose it easily, why would you run a whole cycle devoted to cutting? I have learned that 10-14 day blocks are minimum. If you take a week from bulking, it will take the first day or so to deplete your glycogen (muscle and liver), and then to the fat. You can't have a 20% of your cut devoted to glyco depletion.

Testosterone is anabolic , and this seems to differ from anti-catabolics. An anabolic cannot be anabolic if you are not getting enough food (making something from nothing?)
If my gains slow to crawl, two week cut diet usually has me looking fantastic, and when it is over the gains usually pick back up with the calories.

**cbk** · 01-24-2011, 12:49 AM

Yeah, I was suspecting as much that it would be too much change for the body to handle. Also a good point that even though steroids are anabolic they are not anti-catabolic. Am I on a cycle at the moment? Yes, but I doubt I will try anything like this. I am just experiencing great gains and think I may reach my goal weight before the end of the cycle and would have no problem with switching to cutting instead of continuing to bulk. Though, obviously I'm not going to risk my gains if that is the case that it may not work.

So, if AAS are not anti-catabolic then why are they used in cutting cycles? ie test/win/anavar type cycles? Also, duck, in your second paragraph are you referring to when your gains crawl on a cycle or just when bulking natty?
\
Cheers

**Duckhombre** · 01-24-2011, 08:18 AM

Test is both ananbolic and anti-catabolic. Some drugs are better anti-catabolic than others. Cutting drugs are less known for there anabolic properties and and more focused on anti-catobolism, ie, muscle preservation in the presence of of low calorie diets. I don't think I was very clear on my above post. Sorry.

I was referring to when gains plateau during cycle, I often switch to cutting phase.

**cro** · 01-24-2011, 06:42 PM

good to know.

Originally Posted by Duckhombre

There are many who do the the bulk-to-cut. In fact I bet 7 out of 10 contest cycles are run as such. If you are meso/ecto this works great. If you gain weight slowly, and loose it easily, why would you run a whole cycle devoted to cutting? I have learned that 10-14 day blocks are minimum. If you take a week from bulking, it will take the first day or so to deplete your glycogen (muscle and liver), and then to the fat. You can't have a 20% of your cut devoted to glyco depletion.

Testosterone is anabolic , and this seems to differ from anti-catabolics. An anabolic cannot be anabolic if you are not getting enough food (making something from nothing?)
If my gains slow to crawl, two week cut diet usually has me looking fantastic, and when it is over the gains usually pick back up with the calories.

**cbk** · 01-24-2011, 08:20 PM

So you personally have successfully gone from a bulk to a cut during a cycle when plateauing? How did you go about the transition calorie wise? Did you just eat at maintenance or with a deficit? lol, I probably have a billion more questions to ask you

**MACHINE5150** · 01-24-2011, 08:24 PM

i did a bulk cut cycle.. lost 15lbs of fat and gained 15lbs of muscle.. did 600mg test 400mg deca 12 weeks and just added some clen at 120mcg for the last 4 weeks... As long as you do enough cardio and eat well enough you can do this... You do not have to gain fat and muscle or lose fat and muscle.. you can burn fat while building muscle if you do it right, it is just a bit more difficult to do since the food needs to be disciplined as well as the cardio

**cbk** · 01-24-2011, 09:58 PM

ok, cool. What was your diet like? As in did you eat at maintenance and just exercise a deficit? Also, is that you in your display picture? lol

**ScotchGuard02** · 01-24-2011, 10:15 PM

I thought that a Test only cycle tend to have you retain a little more water because of the amortizing of the progesterone. The estrogen causes the sides like acne, water retention, hair loss, etc. Then you have compounds that don't amortize like Anavar , Deca , and the like. People use these compounds in conjunction with Test for cutting cycles. I haven't done enough research to dial in my diet so I can transition from bulking to cutting in one cycle.

**cbk** · 01-25-2011, 09:51 AM

I'm not sure what you're getting at? Could you expand a bit on how that affects bulking-cutting cycles?

Cheers

**Duckhombre** · 01-25-2011, 11:04 AM

the aromatization of test into estrogen can inhibit fat loss, and even encourage the deposition of adipose tissue. (estro causes neither hairloss or acne) You can take an 'Aromatase Inhibitor' and eliminate the problem altogether, and while I recomend you take these as little as posssible when bulking, you need to eliminate estro completely for cutting phases. This means 1mg of arimidex ed/eod (depending on dose) or 12.5mg exmestane per day.

For me to loose weight, I just go from eating everything I can, to all the clean food I can stand, and bring my cardio to 4-5 times a week from 2-3. I always keep my protein above 350g, and my carbs go from lots fruit(500g or more), a box of cereal every day, several liters of juice, masa, ect, to just oats or sweet potato. That's all I do. I don't count calories, and I eat more than I'm hungry for and still loose weight because I'm a scrawny. I am not a good diet advise giver, because I'm so opposite of everyone else. If you are an ecto who has learned how to get fat, you know I feel. If you are not an ecto well than I have nothing constructive to say to you as far as diet is concerned.

**cbk** · 01-27-2011, 01:58 AM

Very good point. All I have at the moment are SERMs and I'm guessing that won't cut it? Might look into getting some AIs if I can

**Tigershark** · 01-27-2011, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by cbk

Not only did you fail to answer the question, you also failed to read it.

You are correct because once I see the age I tend to check out. Also I have seen plenty of threads about teens asking for advice saying they don't intend to cycle but of course they do anyway.