8 week cycle of Tren and Test Cyp..need some advice

**Buddha_Red** · 07-22-2002, 08:18 PM

Hey gang,

Ive been researching my first real cycle for a long time now. I have finally decided to start one and this is what i have come up with.

Many will say i should wait since i still have some BF to lose but i want to get my feet wet while still being smart about it.

I would love any thoughts you have on my numbers,cycle and any thing else you can think of.

Stats:
244 lbs
5'11"
20% BF

Weights 5 times a week, 1 group a day, weekends off
one cheat day, max cals 2000
cardio x 5 random incline program 3.7 mph @ 145 THR
Diet clean with high protien, carbs from oatmeal and green veggies
2 gals water min a day
Multi vit x 2 ED
Vit C 500 x 2 ED
Optimum protien shake

8 week cycle of Tren and Test Cyp

Planned order as on now:

4gf kit to get 50 to 53ml @ 75mg/ml from 4000mg tren
(Buying two carts)
TEST CYP 200mg/ml, 10ml vial (buying 2 vials)
CLOMID (Omifen) 50mg/tab (buying 30 tabs)
NOLVADEX (Tamoxifen ) 20mg/tab, 14 tabs
23g x 1.5" pins for glutes, (good size for nervious inject newbie?)
and the 18g x 1.5" is for drawing up the gear.
Alc pads for cleaning inject site
3700 cals (not sure of this)

Cycle info:

Weeks 1 - 8: Test Cyp - 200 MG twice a week (1ml)
Weeks 1 - 8: Tren - 75mg (1cc) ED
Week 3 - 4: ECA stack three times ED
Week 5 - 6: ECA stack three times ED
Week 7 - 8: ECA stack three times ED
Week 9 - 10: 100mg clomid ED (post cycle) (14 pills, 2 ED)
Week 11 - 12: 50mg Clomid ED (post cycle) (7 pills , 1 ED)

I plan on having Nolvadex (14 tabs enough?) on hand just in case test brings the signs of Gyno.

Thanks for the time and thoughts bro's and Sis's, as always your info helps me greatly.

**Rickson** · 07-22-2002, 09:30 PM

You can't start Your clomid that early the test will still be in your system. You need to wait until week 10 and then do 300 mg of clomid day 1, 100 mg next 10 days, 50 mg next 10 days. I would have more Nolva on hand just in case or you will have to order more quickly. Cycle looks pretty good although eight weeks is a little short with a long acting ester like cyp. Here is my suggestion.

1-4 Dbol 40 mg ED
1-10 cyp 400 mg /week
4-12 Tren 75 mg ED

Not sure if you have access to Dbol or not.

**Buddha_Red** · 07-22-2002, 09:57 PM

Thanks for the good info Rickson!

How much Nolva do you suggest i buy?

If i have learned anything on AR its that i will never start a cycle until i have EVERYTHING i need.

hehe it might hurt to hold on to all the juice but i dont want to screw myself up my first time out. I will stock up on what i need and keep reading the suggestions from great ppl like you.

PS

Ive read a bunch about our members not suggesting fina for a first real cycle. Do you think it will be a problem?

Ive seen alot suggest test cyp,D-bol(4 wks),winny and clomid as a replacement cycle. what are your thoughts on that?

**saint808** · 07-22-2002, 10:38 PM

if you go with tren for a first cycle see if you can get some prop since you have to do ED injects and since you aree going 8 weeks you can end them and start clomid roughly 3 days or so after last inject rather than stopping tren and waiting for cyp to clear.

**psychopath** · 07-22-2002, 10:48 PM

sounds like a good cycle to me. my first cycle was aratest 250, dbols and tren , worked out very well. gained a good 23lbs. and strength went thru the roof. however, i only did 10 shots of trenbol 75 by ttokyo (its a long story) i did it 3 times a week and i felt the difference fast. incredible pumps and strength and i began leaning out as well. so i guess my advice would be to take it, however i never actually completed an entire dosage of tren so i dont know how i would have reacted to a complete dosage. i will be gettin to carts of tren for my current cycle and will finish this time, lol. good luck and hope this helps.... oh yeah and by the way, try to get yer b/f down as low as possible before u juice. i noticed the lower my b/f the better results i get and try to get some liquidex to keep bloat down. good luck!

**goldstone_77** · 07-22-2002, 11:59 PM

Not trying to be an asshole or anything, but since it is your first cycle why don't you keep it simple? Like a test, d-bal, winny cycle?

**Rickson** · 07-23-2002, 12:34 AM

Buddha,
I think you should have enough Nolvadex to do 20mg ed of the cycle. That will probably not be necessary but if things go bad you should be prepared. My only concern with you doing fina on your first cycle is the fact that if you do get gyno it will be hard to tell whether it is from estrogen(test) or progesterone(fina). The test/d-bol/winny cycle is a good one so that is a choice I think you will have to make. I am glad to see you are asking the questions now and have no doubt you will have a successful cycle no matter what you choose.

**Buddha_Red** · 07-23-2002, 06:34 AM

thanks everyone,

I will be asking alot of questions on this thread to make sure im doing the cycle thats best for me.

Please feel free to suggest what you personally think is a good first cycle. So far im completely pleased by the great information yall are posting for me

thanks =)

***Pheedno*** · 07-23-2002, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Rickson
Buddha,
My only concern with you doing fina on your first cycle is the fact that if you do get gyno it will be hard to tell whether it is from estrogen(test) or progesterone(fina). .

Exactly right.
Buddha, if you do decide to get fina, pick up some Bromocriptine. It's pretty much the only thing you can take for progesterone besides Vitex, which is very mild.
If I were you, I would shoot for a Test/EQ/Winny cycle.

**Buddha_Red** · 07-23-2002, 07:43 AM

Hmm good point rickson and pheedno,

I read about that just a few mins ago, I havent seen any Bromocriptine on my sources (no emailing me outta the blue with source info plz).

Are the chances likely to get gyno from fina? or is it a wait and see type of thing?

thanks for letting me know about this, i will certainly spend the day reading all i can about fina related gyno.

**goldstone_77** · 07-23-2002, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by enrage

Vitex can help prevent gyno but it isn't full proof. it may help keep your prolactin levels low but everyone has their own Opinion on that.
Your cycle looks good. It would look even better if you threw in some Winny and anavar .

Oxandrolone
"This androgen has been shown to decrease subcutaneous abdominal fat to a greater degree than Testosterone and nandrolone, even though the dosages employed with oxandrolone were much lower. On a milligram-per-milligram basis, oxandrolone is much more potent that Testosterone and nandrolone in terms of reducing adipose tissue. (17) "

Just thought that I would let you know that it also reduces viceral fat!

**goldstone_77** · 07-23-2002, 10:16 AM

Buddha_Red check out the cycle forum, I posted an example first cycle there, check it out.

**Buddha_Red** · 07-25-2002, 10:47 AM

thanks Gold.

I dont think i shold hit Dbol simply because for my stats and BF% it would just make me look fatter with all the water even though that doesnt worry me.

Im starting to think maybe Pheedno is right about a Test,Winny and EQ cycle followed up with clomid and nolva in reserve.

Im new to injections and i think that ED might be a bit advanced for me.
I havent ordered anything yet because its evident i need more research, so im bugging yall hehe

The first cycle i posted i feel should be put off by me until i feel im ready.

Any thoughts?

**goldstone_77** · 07-25-2002, 04:04 PM

You wouldn't get much bloat off the d-bal taking it with EQ. But if your dieting d-bal is androgenic enough to make sure your not gonna loose your muscle! You will have to watch out the the EQ, because that shit will make you hungry as HELL! And I have to say you show superior wisdom in holding off on that cycle! For your first one you don't want to inject that stuff everyday. You might end up quitting your cycle mid way, and end up having a bad experience with it. Keep it simple for you first cycle! You will learn a lot through experience, but do the research and be confident before you attempt a cycle!

**DiMensionX** · 07-25-2002, 06:00 PM

Big B,

Hey Bro, you are very close to my stats when I began a little while back. I agree that some will knock the use of ASS while BF is that high HOWEVER, I did as you and DO NOT regret it. I'm at 176.5lbs as of this morning, dropped damn near 50lbs on my cycle of FAT and gained some lean mass, actually IMO a good bit of lean mass as well.

IMO, if YOU think you are ready then I am with you bro. Let me give you my background and what I did, and if I were to do it again how I would do it. Maybe this will help since we both hit this with the same perspective.

I chose the following for a cycle:
Weeks 1-10 Sust 500mg's a week, Sunday/Wednesday injects
Weeks 1-13 Fina 75mg/ed bumped to 150mg/ed halfway through
Weeks 7-13 Winny 50mg's/ed bumped to 75mg's/ed halfway through
Clen 2w on/2 w off throughout (I think it's worthless)
T3 28 day cycle in the middle (I also think it's not worth it, didn't loose any more weight)
Liquid-x throughout

All I can say is that between diet, cardio, and lifting I dropped weight and added muscle like mad. I am a completely different person than I was physically.

In hindsight this is what I would do if starting over at the same point:
Weeks 1-13 Test Prop 100mg's/ed
Weeks 1-13 Fina 100-150mg's/ed
Weeks 5-13 Winny 75mg's/ed of tabs or 50mg's/ed if injected
Liquid-x @ 1mg/ed throughout, then taper down past clomid therapy

People who say ASS can't help someone loose weight are not speaking from experiance IMO. I COMPLETELY agree that diet and routine are KEY, however anyone who reads your posts know's that you have that down.

Many will also balk at my diet while doing this but here it is:
2-3 Can's of Albacore Tuna a day, mixed with a "little" light mayo and 1 tablespoon of sweet relish.
When I got sick of the Tuna I would go a few days on Super lean ground beef instead, cooked on a baby foreman, 1-1.4lb's a day with natures own honey wheat bread.
3-4 Labrada LOW CARB Shake's
I also added 1 scoop of Labrada V60 Whey to each shake and added another cup of water. Easy 60g+ protien with one drink.

Now, I'm on to my next cycle and just realized why I'm not growing, I'm still eating low carbs. I'm SO used to it that now I feel really awkward forcing myself to eat 400+-g's of carbs a day. Fuck it, I'll give it a month and see what happens:-).

During my last cycle I did 30-60 minutes of cardio a day before my workouts. If you have the will power to do the cardio in the am before you eat and then WO in the evening I think you will have even better results than I did.

I'm with ya man, keep an eye on the BP. Mine was high and has come down due to the weight loss. IMO, for me, I would do it all again without batting an eye. My only problem is now I'm SO small compared to what I used to look like, THAT I can deal with. I'll never let myself go again, I know you here me on that one!

One more thing, here is my advice on the pins:
get a bag of 100 3cc 1"x25g syringes (You'll use these most ED)
get a bag of 100 18gx1.5" pins to draw up the gear
get a bag of 100 23gx1.5" pins for the glutes (you'll only use 1/4 of these)

Don't sweat the ED injections, they are a breeze. No worries. Just as friendly advice buy 2x as much fina as you need and the kit's for it as well, keep the extra fina in the fridge just in case. The shit goes quick, real quick.

Take care and good luck,

DMX

G-S · 07-25-2002, 06:09 PM

One concern herer Buddha. Depending on where you get your kit from, you could end up with a final conversion rate of 100mg per ml. The others are 75-80 mg per ml.

ALot of guys don't know this. One kit is different, and is probably the most popular now. That is the one that will yield you 100mg per ml.

**Buddha_Red** · 07-25-2002, 09:57 PM

Hey gang,

I value the information each of you are sharing with me so much! I cant thank you enough. My cycle is slowly taking form in my mind and with the info here i just know it will be a great success.

DiMensionX: Hey bro, thanks for the kickass reply. As with everyone you have really helped me and i wanted to thank you for typing all that on my behalf. I will benefit from your sore fingers =P