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  1. #1
    PHATCAT's Avatar
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    New School Cycling Shorter And Larger DOSES

    There is a couple of other things to consider here. I have been reading in different books that the new school science of cycling is shorter and at larger doses. Now depending on your experience with anabolics doses and lenghth of time will very per person. Regarding Deca short cycles at high doses would not apply because it does take at least 5wks to start getting results at doses around 400-600mgs a week. Doses of 800- 1000mgs a wk do tend hit a little faster. NOW if talking about test from what im reading 750-1000mgs week for 5wks would be great to elevate plazma levels to the proper thesh hold for maximum results on a shorter cycle get in get out logic. This keeps us from prolonged use and potential damage to the different organs, thus even using the TIMEON=TIMEOFF logic you could reasonably do 6 CYCLES per year, EXAMPLE= 2 bulking 1 cutting, 2 more bulking 1 more cutting. SOMEBODY mentioned receptor sites, again from my research of reading it is beleived that what we used to think about multiple type of receptors is not true their is only one TYPE of reseptor site, which brings us back to stacking on your cycle it is VERY important to under stand your ANABOLICS they have half lives thats why anabolics like SUSTENON have a make up of 4 diferent compounds this isnt by accident that they produce roids like this. Each one of those compounds in SUSTENON has a different half life which allows for less frequent injections due to the lenghth of testosterone peaks at different times . EACH of the four compounds are fighting to reach these receptor sites and there are only so many receptors. If the compound does not reach the receptor before the end of its life it will be excreated as waste OR worse yet move on because it has no use at the receptor site and convert to ESTROGEN which is only giving us negitive results. NOW you can see why simply longer and higher doses is not always better! You need to research and KNOW what your taking and how it works and reacts in the body. IF your taking 2 coumpounds that have a simular make up you could be just throughing your your hard earned money down the toilet because they are competing for the receptor site one will not make it to the site just sitting there and yet worse cause unwanted side effects.......
    Last edited by PHATCAT; 08-07-2002 at 01:13 PM.

  2. #2
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    Well I think some of what you say is right but some is off base. Shorter, larger cycles work well when people don't come off but bridge in between. From practical experience (and trust me I've tried) five week cycles and then attempts at recovery end up making you have yoyo hormone levels, bad sides, and little permanent gains. Also AR receptors are pretty plentiful, free test in the blood is a good thing, and you need to explain to the pros why their high dosage long term cycles don't work. Frontloading is a pretty standard practice but personally I always found it to be over rated.

  3. #3
    PHATCAT's Avatar
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    This info I read from a book looking for thoughts thanks. THE book THE ANABOLIC EDGE 2001 , A lot of interesting thoughts in there Written by PAUL BORRESEN , BSC. , MSC. , MBA. & DR. Conrad Kennedy

  4. #4
    iron4life79's Avatar
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    thing main thing for me is running the fast acting esters when i used to run shorter cycles. prop, fina, and all of the orals fall into this category. your choices are very limited on what to run when you do extremely short cycles.
    rickson is right, the "shotgun" approach leaves your hormone levels rolling around like crazy, and the abilty to keep gains is at best, minimal.
    imho, i would rather go at least a little longer and have a better shot at keeping my gains.............
    theres also a train of thought out there that the longer youre on, the better chance you have of keeping gains. im talking like 20-40 weeks at a time. this longer run gives your body a chance to adjust to the new weight, and therefore keep more of it.

    peace bb79

  5. #5
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    Fast acting esters are good you need to know when to use them for instance. People forget if your on using long acting esters like SUS for 10 wks your actually on for 14 wks. "Know your drugs, know your doses. It's elementary" - Brad Pitt, Twelve Monkeys. DONT forget the life of your roids. SHORT acting esters would be used for the beginning of your cycle to get into your system and test levels elevated immediatly and the ending weeks of your cycle so when you mean to be off your OFF. The point to the short cycle is get your test levels up and steady 6wks on at high doses 750- 1000wk (pros do 6xs that) but for the average guy youll build lots of muscle if you train hard and eat right (thats a given) get off for 4-6wks and then get back on. Everyone has experienced you start to lose your gains around 4-6wks (sometimes 8wks if your taking long acting esters) . It only takes on the average (* deppending on the person, and there health habbits) 4wks to fully recover from a cycle (HORMONAL BALANCE) . LOGICALLY this healthier for your body. 20-40 weeks bro sounds like a plan for certain disaster in the long run BEWARE!!! This is from experience I have a friend that had a heart attack at the age of 24years old from that logic your suggesting. HE was huge and ripped and modled for suppliment companies, but he had to always be on because when he was off he would shrink because you cant deppened on the juice to keep you big. The body will eventually get back to the norm. thats at a maintence level. WE use ANABOLICS increase are gains help get results because the body will not grow like that in a short period of time like weve gottin used to. We want these suppliments to work with our bodies not against them. You should research this and be smart and becareful KNOLEDGE IS POWER AND WHAT YOU DONT KNOW CAN KILL YOU!!!!!!

  6. #6
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    phatcat,
    im going to answer here as well, even though i already pm'ed you about this.
    i dont want anyone to mistake my post on running longer as the cycle being ALL short acting esters. when youre on for the length of time posted above, its extremely important to switch up the gear you use. mix the long acting esters and the short acting ones at the appropriate times in the cycle.
    what i was trying to get across in my post was the length of time on, NOT the gear used.
    if anyone misunderstood this, im very sorry.

    peace bb79

  7. #7
    PHATCAT's Avatar
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    I PMed the paragraph to you but it was not directed towards you personally. The reason I even come to this board is for GOOD discussions on sirious TOPICS. Im not to intrested in 1st, 2nd, 3rd time users making uneducated ridiculess statements because a friend told them so who probable knew even less! I guess that I did not understand what you were saying you wrote(theres also a train of thought out there that the longer youre on, the better chance you have of keeping gains. im talking like 20-40 weeks at a time. this longer run gives your body a chance to adjust to the new weight, and therefore keep more of it) IT does sound logical but not practical if you have any concern for your HEALTH. I was concerened, COULDNT comprehened 20-40wks and I still think shorter is better, BUT thats from my research and the way I interprute it. Life is an ever learning project those that stop learning are the ones losing. I do wish you the best of luck in your gains and be safe!

  8. #8
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    i was going to keep this to pm's, but since you posted your response to me, heres my reply.........
    so now im an inexperienced brother, who listens to other uneducated brothers? i cant wait to let some of my other vet and senior member buddies see this(the uneducated ones that helped me out).................

    this one does sound like its directed at me personally and i dont care for it bro, you have your opinion and i have mine. we're both entitled to each.......yes?

    i should probably just let this go, my rep speaks for itself, and i rarely flame anyone bro, but if this is directed at me personally, say so. if not accept my sincere apologies.

    peace bb79

  9. #9
    G Child's Avatar
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  10. #10
    G Child's Avatar
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    By the way, I don't think personal attacks are warranted. This is a DSCUSSION BOARD, and as bb said which is TRU, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

    As far as "uneducated" and "ridiculous" bb does not fall into that category. He is a very knowledgeable individual and knows what he's talking about.

  11. #11
    Big Rush's Avatar
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    Phatcat, I think you just misunderstood what BB was saying...

    I'm thinking of running this for my next cylle (cutting):
    1-8 Prop 100mg ED
    1-8 Fina 71.25mg ED

    or


    1-8 Prop 150mg EOD
    1-8 Fina 142.5mg EOD

    What do you all think of these ideas for a cutting cycle???

  12. #12
    Big Rush's Avatar
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    Originally posted by G Child
    By the way, I don't think personal attacks are warranted. This is a DSCUSSION BOARD, and as bb said which is TRU, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

    As far as "uneducated" and "ridiculous" bb does not fall into that category. He is a very knowledgeable individual and knows what he's talking about.
    I agree...

  13. #13
    G Child's Avatar
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    Big Rush, your cycle f*ckin' sucks you sorry @ss much skinny prick!


    ...............
    j/k

    I think it looks good, I was thinking about the same cycle but adding Winny or Anavar to it.

  14. #14
    PHATCAT's Avatar
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    barbells79 MY apologies for the miscomunication. All opions are based on education through publication or experimation. IF I only wanted to converse with those who agreed with my opion I wouldnt have responded to any of this disscusion. Book of the week, well to that I can only say yes I am reading I discuss what Ive read with others LIKE barbell79 to digest. THEIR WERE NO FLAMES THEIR. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!!!

  15. #15
    G Child's Avatar
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    Ecclesiastes
    "For in much wisdom is much grief, and increase of knowledge is increase of sorrow."

  16. #16
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    Just a quick note on Paul Borreson. While some thought of him as a steroid guru the majority dismissed his ideas and considered his short cycle/large dosages as paramount to suicide. He also came under fire for reportedly giving himself accreditations he did not earn and claiming to be involved with some top BB's which turned out to be false. I would be very careful about taking any of his cycle advice.

  17. #17
    PHATCAT's Avatar
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    Thank you for the notation. This is the kind of info I was looking for. I through this thread out there because I had not seen one simular. I was not looking for arguments or cat fights and definatly no flames towards anyone. I will continue to researching this topic It does seem to me to be an interesting one. HEALTH AND SAFTY #1, solid GAINS #2. Moderation and balence is the key to all aspects of life. It is a proven fact that long term stress on the liver and kindneys will lead to failure ( no matter what the culprit (DRINKING, DRUGS, or ANABOLIC USE !)

  18. #18
    iron4life79's Avatar
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    p.c.
    you seem like a decent standup guy to me, which is why i found your last pm and post kind of surprising. if youre here looking for FACTS, and REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, you came to the right place. these guys will help you out (including myself) all they can. if you need anything from me you know where to find me bro.........

    this issue is dead, as far as im concerned.

    peace bb79

  19. #19
    PHATCAT's Avatar
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    Thankyou Barbells79 I will keep in touch! Spread Knowledge its contagious!!!!!!! I put up another thread title =( FOR YOUR INFORMATION!!!) Any recomendations?

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