Planning 3rd cycle - "clean gear" insights???

**hammerhead** · 08-17-2002, 09:26 PM

I'm coming off a second cycle of equip/sust/d-bol (details at the end if you want them) I'm not keeping enough gains on this stuff. I want to try the clean stuff. Next cycle i'm planning to do weeks 1-10 Primobolan 300mg/wk + Equip 400mg/wk + win 50mg/EOD. Is that enough??? Is this a cycle that will heavily disappoint me after doing the sust/equip/d-bol ????

My goal is to gain and keep some lean muscle mass. At age 36 the keeping gains part is a bit of a challenge! Any of you middle-aged guys out there have any revelations about using clean gear I could benefit from????

First cycle was a stack of weeks 1-4 dbol 25mg/day - weeks 4-12 sustanon 250mg/wk and weeks 1-7 deca 400mg/wk. The plan was to take the deca for weeks 1-12 but I started getting gyno and backed off the deca at week 7. I've had no gyno problems since then but now I know i'm prone. It was a powerful cycle. I loved it. But I didn't keep but about 1/3 of the gains.

My second cycle - which i'm just finishing up right now is weeks 1-4 of dbol 35mg/day - weeks 1-10 of sustanon 375mg/wk and weeks 1-10 of Equ 400mg/wk. This wasn't as powerful as the first cycle. I don't think I waited long enough between cycles to start again (6 weeks) - the weakness and depression was killing me I wanted back on BAD. I'm dreading the hell out of coming off this cycle.

**Rickson** · 08-17-2002, 09:43 PM

What does your post cycle recovery plan look like? I think if you are not keeping the gains I would analyze my on and post cycle recovery workout, diet, and ancillaries before blaming the gear. To get to your original question though there is nothing wrong with your proposed "clean" gear cycle but I wouldn't expect a huge amount of gains although they should be easily kept.

**hammerhead** · 08-18-2002, 06:52 AM

Bump.

My goals are realistic - I don't need big gains - i'm not interested in packing on alot of muscle that I cannot keep without more AS.

What about the dosages? Has anyone tried the primo/win/equip stack before? Are my dosages okay or should I bump up anything?

**hammerhead** · 08-18-2002, 06:58 AM

Oh yeah - post-cycle has been HCG for 2 weeks then clomid for another 4 weeks. After my first cycle I took the HCG and clomid way before the sustanon got out of my system. it was a newbie mistake. it took about 4-5 weeks for the sustanon to get out of my system andby then I was 3 weeks into 4 weeks of clomid. I'm unable to eat as much post-cycle as I did on the juice. I get a superhuman appetite from the gear. Post-cycle i'm devoid of energy, appetite, sex drive ... so yes my post-cycle behaviour doesn't help any but isn't that a normal part of coming off a cycle? doesn't everyone feel like total shit???

Are my dosages okay?

**iron4life79** · 08-18-2002, 07:40 AM

h.h.
i think the dosages are fine for what youve layed out for us so far. keep in mind that primo/eq is extremely mild, so you wont see huge gains in the mass dept, but like rickson said, they should be easily kept.
also, eq in lower dosages for a longer period of time seems to work better, say 400mg/week for 12-15 weeks.
if you want to keep the eq at 10 its fine, but at least run the test a week past the eq so they taper out at the same time.
if youre getting decent gains off your stacks, but not keeping most of it, then im with rickson here too.........a look at your post cycle regimen is in order.
while everything is tapering out, you still need to eat and lift like you were on, and timing of clomid is essential to how much you keep. you said you were running 4 weeks of clomid, how did you break it down?

peace bb79

**hammerhead** · 08-18-2002, 08:46 AM

Post-cycle - I don't understand how I can possibly eat and lift like I were still on - if I could eat and lift like that without the gear I would not need gear would I? I'm not being sarcastic! I honestly do not have the energy and endurance nor the appetite (no matter how much I force myself to eat) to do anything anywhere near what I can do while i'm on it. I thought that was why we take the gear. So we can do the heavy workouts. If I do the heavy workouts I used to do when I was younger I start showing signs of over-training pretty quickly - no matter how much I eat. Unless i'm on gear.

I appreciate the advice and i'm not being sarcastic or being a whiner and i'm not trying to make excuses for myself. I will heed the advice and work as hard as I can post-cycle. I've been under the impression that if I take it easy coming off a cycle i'll keep more gains because my body is in a catabolic phase and the harder I work out the more I help out the catabolism. I'm wrong in that assumption??

Comid - I did 100mg/day for about a week or so and then 50mg/day until I ran out which was about 3 or 4 weeks of clomid altogether. I took it running about 2 to 6 weeks after my last injection of sustanon and from what I could feel the sustanon didn't leave my system until about 5 weeks after the last injection. That's when I lost weight, energy, everything very quickly. I got back on the next cycle one week later I felt so badly.

I'm absolutely sure that was not the right way to do it!

All of this advice is great stuff thanks!

**iron4life79** · 08-18-2002, 08:55 AM

h.h.
for 3-4 weeks after your last injection,(depending on what youre using) YOURE STILL ON. its in this period of time that im talking about eating and lifting like you were still mid cycle.
when this time is over, then cut the cals(slowly) and scale the workout back.
be more rigid with your clomid therapy as well,
300mg day 1
100mg days 2-11
50mg days 12-21

i understand where youre coming from bro, and its extremely frustrating to hit this kind of wall. ive been there and it sucks. sometimes you just gotta put your head down and run through it.

you know, i was just thinking about this post and your problem a little more and im going to add to this post. you might want to try adding a fast acting ester at the end, say prop for a couple of weeks, and then start your clomid 3-5 days later. this might alleviate some of your post cycle distress. you wont have that huge gap while waiting for the other compounds to taper out of your system........just a thought.

peace bb79