08-26-2002, 04:04 PM #1
That persistent keeping gains issue
This is getting slightly ahead of myself, as I haven't even started a cycle, but I'm trying to cover all my bases. As such, i'm just wondering how those who have kept a good chunk of their gains (65-75%) from a cycle accomplished this and what those who did not learned from their mistakes. Currently, my plan of attack in this respect consists, of course, of clomid as the main ingredient. Additionally, however, i've also been tooling with the idea of minimizing glutamine supplementation (down to 5-10 grams/day) during the cycle and then upping it to 40-50 grams per day for the first month off of the cycle. As it stands now, my approach will be largely anti-catabolic in diet and exercise - while it might be mentally tough, I plan to scale both my weight AND volume back by at least a third and go into a general mid-intensity maintenance program of sorts. I'm leaning against, but still open to the suggestion of, utilizing tribulus post-cycle if it has any real benefits along with the clomid. Lastly, i'm wondering if creatine should be abandoned for the cycle and, like the glutamine, employed after the fact in an attempt to stave off as much catabolism as is possible.
For reference, this will be my first cycle, and will likely look like this:
(Weeks 1-4) D-Bol - 30mg a day divided into six 5mg doses a day
(Weeks 1-10) Deca - 400mg a week divided into two 200 mg doses/week
(Weeks 1-10) Test Enanthate - 500mg a week divided into two w/deca
(Weeks 1-10) Daily multivitamins, milkthistle and ALA.
(Weeks 1-10) Arimidex - (liquid) 1ml a day
(Week 12) Clomid @ 100mg a day
(Week 13) Clomid @ 50mg a day
Any thoughts? The Clomid at 14 days has been considered by some to be a bit lengthy, but i'd rather err on that side of the equation than the other. I'm particularly interested in the glutamine issue from my point of view and incredibly interested in what all of you have done, plan on doing, or failed to do that might shed some insight into how to keep any of the gains i may be fortunate enough to experience. Thanks.
EDIT: has anyone checked the gainskeeper regimen at getswole.com? I've heard more than a few good things about Phosphatidylersine and am wondering if anyone's given this one a run...
Last edited by BigGreen; 08-26-2002 at 04:46 PM.
08-26-2002, 04:15 PM #2
You need to start clomid on week 13. I think you have to learn the amount of rest and the proper diet your body needs to truly have a successful post cycle plan. Unfortunately alot of that comes with trial and error. I like to keep my calories high, shorten the length of my workouts, and rest much more.
08-26-2002, 04:25 PM #3
Since i have no idea how my body will react post cycle, i'm trying to at least guesstimate this by building on plans that have seemed to work in other instances where i seemed to be facing extreme catabolism - namely times of great stress, coming off of an illness, or the one or two times I've legitimately overtrained. In all of those instances, afternoon catnaps, an upped fruit and veggie intake, LOTS of milk and freal ruit juice in place of the glass of water with every meal seemed to yield the best results. Is making this analogy justified? Pouring over my old journals, it would appear that this approach got me feeling "right" again much quicker than the other approaches.
08-26-2002, 04:25 PM #4
Correct. Your clomid therapy should start at week 13, not 12.
08-26-2002, 04:37 PM #5
Thanks for the feedback...my mistake on the clomid - jotted down my cycle from memory, and looking at the "paperwork" now, i have it slated for week 13. Also, on the mental attitude thing, i have to agree that those I know who have cycled usually can't deal with that initial dip in strength and weight loss (and most i know use deca , so in both cases it's likely linked very strongly with water retention) and tend to think if they aren't making those unreal gains like they were while on there's no point. OR...it seems a lot of them start to use AS as a crutch....sorta like, "look how easily i turned it around in 8-10 weeks, i'll just run it again when i need to - in the meantime, party on!!!".
Anyway, congrats on your stats both during and after...very impressive. ALmost as impressive as my overuse of the ellipse.
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