Thread: Do I need Test..
09-05-2002, 01:16 AM #1
Do I need Test..
It has been a while since my last post been away for awhile new job, new home, new everything life is still good and I still don't know it all. I need some help from the experts. I am going to be doning a cutting cycle which I will post below and I was wondering If I could/should perhaps add some test? What are your thoughts?
P.S. Thanks for all the outstanding comments and advise from those who replied to my first few posts it was greatly appreciated.
Wks 1-8 Winny (mg/wk) 100,200,200,300,300,200,200,100
Primo (mg/wk) 100,100,200,200,300,200,200,100
Wks 1-3+7-9 Clen (mcg/day) 60,80,100,60,80,100
Wks 4-7 T3(cytomel ) (mcg/day) 50,100,100,50
P.P.S. Should I take an ECA or NYC during my off wks of Clen? Which is prefered? Or is either fine?
Thank you in advance for your comments and advise.
09-05-2002, 08:25 AM #2
IMO bro u shouldnt do a cycle without test.
09-05-2002, 09:05 AM #3
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isn't primo another name for test enanthanate?
09-05-2002, 09:07 AM #4
09-05-2002, 09:10 AM #5
Hey bro, just as Pete said.. Heres Big Cats profile on Primo
Primobolan is a well-known and popular steroid as well. Like nandrolone it's most often used as a base compound for stacking with other steroids . Methenolone however, is a DHT-based steroid (actually, DHB or dihydroboldenone, the 5-alpha reduced of the milder boldenon). Meaning when it interacts with the aromatase enzyme it does not form estrogens at all. That makes it ideal for use when cutting when excess estrogen is best avoided because of its retentive effects on water and fat. Methenolone is mostly only used in such instances, or by people who are very succeptible to estrogenic side-effects, because the anabolic activity of methenolone is slightly lower than that of nandrolone, quite likely BECAUSE it is non-estrogenic.
Because it is a widely available steroid its often used as a replacement for nandrolone or boldenone to those who have no access to Deca -Durabolin or Laurabolin or Equipoise . When stacked with a heavy mass steroid like testosterone and/or methandrostenolone it can deliver almost similar gains. Those seeking to cut will most likely be very pleased stacking it with drostanolone, stanozolol or trenbolone . Women and beginners also stack methenolone WITH nandrolone because this gives a mildly anabolic stack that is generally regarded as one of the safer stacks around in an androgenic perspective. But alas, with the nandrolone, also a very suppressive stack.
Methenolone is available as an injection or as an oral. The injection is naturally regarded as better. Its an enanthate ester which is quite long-acting and only needs to be injected once a week in doses of 300-600 mg. Because it by-passes hepatic breakdown on the first pass, it also has a higher survival rate. The orals are a lot less handy, but often preferred by bodybuilders who are afraid of needles or who are already taking one or more injectable compounds. The tabs are in a short-lived acetate form, meaning that doses of 100-150 mg per day are needed, split over 2 or 3 doses, making the tabs quite inconvenient for use. The reason doses need to be split up, unlike most oral steroids , is because Methenolone is not 17-alpha-alkylated, but 1-methylated for oral bio-availability. This reduces the liver stress, but also the availability, hence the multiple and high doses needed daily.
Like nandrolone, methenolone is very mild on the system. Probably the reason why both are strongly favored as base compounds in stacks. Methenolone has no estrogenic side-effects whatsoever, on account of its structure. Its effects on the cholesterol levels are barely noticeable. In doses of 200 mg or less (injectable) blood pressure is rarely, if at all, altered. As for hepatoxicity, long-term use will of course increase liver values but gradually and only slightly. The injections of course, since they only pass the liver once, have roughly half the liver-toxic effects of the tabs. The low liver-toxicity is accounted for that the bio-availability of methenolone is carried by a 1-methyl-group, which lessens the need for a carrier attachment such as a 17-alpha-akylated group, the main culprit in steroid-related liver afflictions.
The strangest thing however, taking into account that Primo is still a DHT (or rather DHB) derivative, is that it is quite easy on the system androgenically as well. Women use methenolone often, usually the tabs, and find little virilisation symptoms in short term use of methenolone. Long-term use may induce some acne and a deepening of the voice however. Methenolone is also not overly suppressive of the HPT axis (endocrinal axis for the production of natural testosterone). These are both the result of DHB's 1,2-double bond, which, analog to the parent structure boldenone, reduces the androgenic binding by 50% as opposed to DHT.
For athletes who wish to maintain a "natural" status in competition, the tablets are quite well-suited as detection chances for the acetate-form are quite slim. However tests have improved and quite a number of metabolites1 of methenolone can be detected with a simple urine sample. But an English study documented that there is a liability in eating methenolone contaminated meats2, which could provide a possible defense if found out. One could always claim they ate the meat of a chicken or cow injected with methenolone since the test concluded eating such meat does not improve performance, but can deliver positive tests for several methenolone metabolites almost 24 hours after ingestion. That's for those of you seeking a viable defense against a possible methenolone-positive.
Stacking and Use:
Methenolone comes in orals and injectables. The injectables are to be preferred as they can be used for quite some time and only require injecting once a week. The orals are taking every day, or multiple times a day. An oral passes through the liver twice. An injectable only once. The injectable is more effective since less is broken down.
Methenolone is not used all that often by experienced users. It makes a good product as an alternative to Deca or EQ in a cutting stack, because it has similar properties but does not aromatize and does not have progestagenic activity. But those at least slightly versed will prefer boldenone over methenolone as its more potent gram for gram. Its quite mild, so its not as prone to cause your standard side-effects. This too makes it quite popular with beginners. Methenolone was quite popular during the 70's in stacks with Methandrostenolone. Some of the all-time greats of bodybuilding were quite fond of this stack.
The common use is similar to that of Nandrolone. 300-400 mg a week, in conjunction with other steroids mostly. Some attempt to make up for the lack of potency switching from nandrolone or boldenone to methenolone by using higher doses, in the neighbourhood of 600-800 mg a week. At that point I feel it would be cheaper to opt for boldenone at 300-400 mg a week though. Methenolone makes a poor stacking partner in mass stacks as both Deca and EQ provide better results while they are qualitatively similar. There is a slight merit in stacking Methenolone with boldenone, because apart from its 1-methyl group, methenolone is basically DHB, the 5-alpha-reduced form of boldenone. But since boldenone itself has very low affinity for 5-alpha-reduction, it should have a good synergistic effect stacking the two at 300 mg/week each.
There is no use for alternate drugs since it does not aromatize, is quite mild and the gains are fairly easy to maintain, so post-cycle use of clomid or Nolvadex is not warranted.
09-05-2002, 09:11 PM #6
Hey guys I forgot to ask. Should I have any anti-estragens with this cycle? Like clomid perhaps? Also If Test will help this cycle which test is prefered? Again ECA/NYC during off weeks of Clen ? I heard some stuff about yohimbine that it may not be all that good for you. Thanks in advance for your help.
09-05-2002, 11:41 PM #7
I don't understand or like that cycle at all. What good is 100 mg of winny a week going to do you. A minimal dose is 50 mg EOD. Not enough primo either and I am not sure why you are pyramiding. You also need to do a better Taper of the T-3 then just stopping at 50 mcg a day. I would rethink the cycle entirely and use test as the base and run the winny at the end.
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