After reading this site for a week...

[JinNtonic]

I thought I knew what I wanted but now I have more questions than before. This is a great place for supreme info. Thx to all that make this place so great!

Quick blurb about me. I used to lift & be very active all through high school and some past. Between work(60hour a week), and 3 kids. I have fallen off the wagon per say.

I gained weight from 210-285 before I changed my eating habit's and lost most of the fat. I currently weigh between 205-208, but I dont have the muscle I used to.

I need to drop between 10-20lbs of fat. And begin gaining muscle mass again.

HGH interests me alot.

I am trying to decide if I should cut with clen & T3 first. Or should I bulk up before I cut to get the best gains.

I am 6' tall 29 years old.

A friend of mine has a combo of Masteron /EQ/Sustanon 250 His girl wont let him take. I can get it relatively cheap.

I read the EQ increases hunger and I am worried about gaining fat. Hair loss is also a concern since I do have some hair loss now.


I am going to continue to read and learn, but any guidance would be a great help.

Like I said b4. I think HGH is the way I will eventually go. But I was thinking about getting some faster gains with aas first then use mainly HGH for long term use. THX!

[Lemonada8]

whats ur bf%?

HGH at age 29 is a lil young IMO... its expensive and u have to be on it for a long time...

do u lift currently? how is your diet?

for a first cycle, many recommend not stacking, but just goin w/ test....

what r u goalS? do u wanna get big? cut? or what?

[spywizard]

how old are you/...

best indicator for us.. what did you have for breakfast today..

and clen /t3 combo will cause an effect known as muscle wasting through a catabolic effect.. your body will be come hyper and start eating your muscle..

[JinNtonic]

I am 29. Not sure on BF% maybe 14%.

My goals are mainly just to improve. I want to drop BF% and also gain good Muscle mass.

I have been lifting on & off. Its hard to get back into it after several years off.

During the week I eat good ole Cheerios w/ skim milk.

I treat myself on the weekends with 2-3 eggs, bacon or chicken fried steak.

Also while I am at work I mostly eat boneless skinless chicken breast grilled with cyan pepper. Lots of brustle sprouts, broccoli, cucumbers, pickles.

I dont eat perfect thats for sure. But I do eat every few hours and drink lots of water. I have ate well enough to lose 70-80lbs of fat over a few years and easily keep it off.

I still like to have some beers & the occasional pizza.

I am all for improving on all aspect of my fitness but I still want to enjoy life at the same time. So I dont think I will go to the extremes of some of you guys.

Thx for any guidance.

[Lemonada8]

with that diet, AAS is not for you... you need cardio and a good diet...

[JinNtonic]

To be honest that seems like a very generic answer. I dont think 5 egg white & 19 almonds are required for aas. I do eat pretty good, and I didnt say I wouldnt improve.

I eat lots of boneless skinless chicken breast & lots of greens. How is that bad?


I agree about the cardio. I would argue my diet isnt that bad.

Remember, I am not in a comp. I am only competing with genetics & my own personal goals.

What about a combo of Anavar & masteron ...?

[TJM7275]

well the reason why its such a generic answer and you see it a lot is because its the truth and the correct answer. Thats where we all have to start because most come here thinking their diet is in check and realize its really not. Also, there are only a few of us who compete. Most just do it for ourselves. HGH is very expensive, you need to run it for at least six months and it should be stacked with a test IMO. Equipoise does increase your appetite, but if you have your diet in check, why would you care. Do you see where I am going with this? I think you have much to learn and I am not flaming you. Ultimately your gonna do what you want but my advice is to learn more. Read, read and read some more. If you wanna cut up find the diet for that. If you wanna bulk, theirs one for that too. Start eating right and go from their. How's your training going?? I think a proper diet mixed with weights and some cardio will do the trick for you. Then, after you get that straight think about gear... Good Luck

[one8nine]

To be honest that seems like a very generic answer. I dont think 5 egg white & 19 almonds are required for aas. I do eat pretty good, and I didnt say I wouldnt improve.

I eat lots of boneless skinless chicken breast & lots of greens. How is that bad?


I agree about the cardio. I would argue my diet isnt that bad.

Remember, I am not in a comp. I am only competing with genetics & my own personal goals.

What about a combo of Anavar & masteron...?

i could get flamed for this but i agree with your response for diet, i dont know your whole entire diet but personally i believe you are on the right track based on your previous posts

99% of people will tell you your first cycle needs to be test e 500mg/wk 12 weeks and nothing else when you ask for first cycle advice on this board

var and masteron are good drugs but for a first cycle you really dont need them both

as heavy as i would recomend for a first cycle would be test and masteron, with a nolva/a-dex/clen pct.. the stuff about test only first time is bunk but you also dont need to go overboard

[Lemonada8]

It doesnt have to be perfect, but if you are running gear w/o the proper macros required, you wont have results like your wanting... are you gettin enough protein in? are you gettin too many carbs? etc....

and you say you have 3 kids and work alot...are you going to have enough time to get a solid workout in? are you going ot have enough extra time to prepare your meals?

yes your diet has improved to lose all that weight, but u said u wanted to lose about 10-20 more lbs... your diet might be good, but to lose that extra weight, you need to eat even better...

I bet if you workout hard and properly, and start to eat better... i bet u will see results...

if u are really dead set on goin on a cycle, i wouldnt stack anything... you will get plenty of results from plano test... test E for 12-14 weeks at 500 mg/week split in 2 shots that will start to kick in at about week 5-6.... u can do test P at 75-100 mg ED for 8 weeks... that will kick in at about the end of week 1, beginning of week 2.....

you arent going to want to stack because your receptors are really fresh to artificial test... you will have good results alone....

for your diet, you are going to want to check out the diet forums and see what u want to gain... keep the sodium intake low, that will help minimize bloat....

[gixxerboy1]

To be honest that seems like a very generic answer. I dont think 5 egg white & 19 almonds are required for aas. I do eat pretty good, and I didnt say I wouldnt improve.
I eat lots of boneless skinless chicken breast & lots of greens. How is that bad?


I agree about the cardio. I would argue my diet isnt that bad.

Remember, I am not in a comp. I am only competing with genetics & my own personal goals.

What about a combo of Anavar & masteron...?

Thats the differnce between people who get good results and great results. Or the people who are juicing and cant tell. Maybe a barely visiable 4 pack and a hard 6 pack, see where im going

[Deen54]

Listen.. juice works regardless if your diet is right or not. Juice
was not made for body builders.. it was made for people who were
in the hospital for long period of times. People with low low red blood
cells..anemic..burn victims etc...these people don't have there diet
in check...far from it.

However,..if you do have your diet in check and have a good workout routine and you have some years of training behind you...juice will work ...Great for you as opposed to mediocre results.

You know, yes you can eat chicken breasts and veggies and that's great.
But it is not enough. You need to increase frequncy and add some variety.
3 squares a day is no good...try 6 to 8 meals..smaller with quality.
visit the diet forums..

Pizza and beer..well lets see you have carbs and empty carbs.
the pizza will give you energy and will store as fat if not used.
The beer will speed up the half life of the juice and put additional strain
on certain organs..like liver, kidneys etc.

So you need to get a little serious with your expectations and you need
to respect the juice.

[JinNtonic]

well the reason why its such a generic answer and you see it a lot is because its the truth and the correct answer. Thats where we all have to start because most come here thinking their diet is in check and realize its really not. Also, there are only a few of us who compete. Most just do it for ourselves. HGH is very expensive, you need to run it for at least six months and it should be stacked with a test IMO. Equipoise does increase your appetite, but if you have your diet in check, why would you care. Do you see where I am going with this? I think you have much to learn and I am not flaming you. Ultimately your gonna do what you want but my advice is to learn more. Read, read and read some more. If you wanna cut up find the diet for that. If you wanna bulk, theirs one for that too. Start eating right and go from their. How's your training going?? I think a proper diet mixed with weights and some cardio will do the trick for you. Then, after you get that straight think about gear... Good Luck

I dont think your flaming at all. This why I am here. I do have an above average knowledge of training & diet. But that is very limited when compared to the guys on here.

In fact I just watched 3 of the videos from "Milos Sarcev "Secret of the Pro's" on Nutrition!"

I did learn alot. Some I knew, some I didnt.

So I went threw my fridge and this makes up alot of my diet.

Roast Beef= 72.5 P, 7.5 C, and 6.25 F

Tuna= 32.5 P, 0 C, 1.25 F.

Chicken Breast= 33 P, 0 C, 1.5 F.

Mahi Mahi= 18 P, 0 C, 1 F.

Chicken Strips= 20 P, 2 C, 2 F.

Cottage Cheese= 28P, 6 C, 2 F.


Some of the other things I ate were good on keeping low Carbs & fat but not enough protein.

I appreciate all criticism. I only argue because I know my diet isnt that bad. And Like I said. I will improve it.

I agree I need to start cardio(hate it). Keep improving my diet. As well as continue to work hard on the weights.

But I still would like some advice on a beginning cycle for when I am ready.

Should I use the friends Masteron /EQ/Sustanon 250? I understand I should only use a test to star. Would the Sustanon be the right choice?

I want to see gains, but I would like to avoid the sides. Is there a common Test that is known for low risk, solid rewards?

Thx for the guidance!

[JinNtonic]

It doesnt have to be perfect, but if you are running gear w/o the proper macros required, you wont have results like your wanting... are you gettin enough protein in? are you gettin too many carbs? etc....

and you say you have 3 kids and work alot...are you going to have enough time to get a solid workout in? are you going ot have enough extra time to prepare your meals?

yes your diet has improved to lose all that weight, but u said u wanted to lose about 10-20 more lbs... your diet might be good, but to lose that extra weight, you need to eat even better...

I bet if you workout hard and properly, and start to eat better... i bet u will see results...

if u are really dead set on goin on a cycle, i wouldnt stack anything... you will get plenty of results from plano test... test E for 12-14 weeks at 500 mg/week split in 2 shots that will start to kick in at about week 5-6.... u can do test P at 75-100 mg ED for 8 weeks... that will kick in at about the end of week 1, beginning of week 2.....

you arent going to want to stack because your receptors are really fresh to artificial test... you will have good results alone....

for your diet, you are going to want to check out the diet forums and see what u want to gain... keep the sodium intake low, that will help minimize bloat....

See, now that is the kind of answer I am looking for. Thank you!

I am here not only to learn but also to get a kick in the ass!

I lost all that weight without exercise. Just from 20 min's of reading pluss looking in my fridge I learned I need to up my Protein alot. Cuz some of the stuff I ate were pure weight loss. Nothing to build on.

Thank you...

[JinNtonic]

i could get flamed for this but i agree with your response for diet, i dont know your whole entire diet but personally i believe you are on the right track based on your previous posts

99% of people will tell you your first cycle needs to be test e 500mg/wk 12 weeks and nothing else when you ask for first cycle advice on this board

var and masteron are good drugs but for a first cycle you really dont need them both

as heavy as i would recomend for a first cycle would be test and masteron, with a nolva/a-dex/clen pct.. the stuff about test only first time is bunk but you also dont need to go overboard

I respectfully agree. Thats why I was alittle upset. But the pros are steppin up now!

[JinNtonic]

Thats the differnce between people who get good results and great results. Or the people who are juicing and cant tell. Maybe a barely visiable 4 pack and a hard 6 pack, see where im going

For sure...

Thats why I didnt understand an answer like "AAS isnt for you, just diet & exercise".

I dont have totally horrendous diet. I have lots of room to improve, but also feel I have a good base to build on.

[JinNtonic]

Listen.. juice works regardless if your diet is right or not. Juice
was not made for body builders.. it was made for people who were
in the hospital for long period of times. People with low low red blood
cells..anemic..burn victims etc...these people don't have there diet
in check...far from it.

However,..if you do have your diet in check and have a good workout routine and you have some years of training behind you...juice will work ...Great for you as opposed to mediocre results.

You know, yes you can eat chicken breasts and veggies and that's great.
But it is not enough. You need to increase frequncy and add some variety.
3 squares a day is no good...try 6 to 8 meals..smaller with quality.
visit the diet forums..

Pizza and beer..well lets see you have carbs and empty carbs.
the pizza will give you energy and will store as fat if not used.
The beer will speed up the half life of the juice and put additional strain
on certain organs..like liver, kidneys etc.

So you need to get a little serious with your expectations and you need
to respect the juice.

Great advice. I knew what I was typing when I put Pizza & Beer, I am just being honest. "If" do go juice, I will drop the beer & focus hard on training. Anyway, Mich Ultra is more like water than beer!

I do eat many times per day. I would say 4-6 per day. I need to bump it up more(I think I can do 8). As well as ad much more protein.

I also need to learn more about adding whey protein & other supplements.

Thank you!

[JinNtonic]

and you say you have 3 kids and work alot...are you going to have enough time to get a solid workout in? are you going ot have enough extra time to prepare your meals?

Yes the hardest part is finding the energy to work out or do cardio after putting in 12 hour of work and add in 2 hours of driving round trip.

That by far is going to be my biggest hurdle.

But I still think I can find the time to do it. It is breaking the ice & just flat out doing it consistently like I used to...

Thank you for all the good info. I am going to continue to learn & also ask questions. Hope you guys will be there to help!

[Deen54]

By the sounds of it you seem to have the knowledge. You know what
you need to do. I guess you just need some info scrutinized and
verified...and also you need the motivation to get you started.

i understand you're mentally prepping up for when the time comes
you are going to go ballistic. I do the same.

But what i am training myself to do is to make a lifestyle change.
I should be eating healthy..and doing this regardless of juice.

The juice will help but if i do juice and then after the juice go back to my old routine. Then i will eventually end up where i was before i started the juice.

So we have to consider eating healthy and following a lifestyle that
enables us to do so.

[TJM7275]

Deen I have to disagree with your first post.... Juice works no matter what your diet looks like??? Are you serious?? Yeah it works regardless but if you eat like shit, it makes you look like shit. I knew a guy who juiced and ate McDonalds all day. He got fat and looked terrible. I personally think you waste your gear if your diet sucks... Its like half assing it. Just dont understand why you would tell a noob that. You claim to have a ton of knowledge about gear so why not start him off on the right foot? Anyway, just me

[Kratos]

See, now that is the kind of answer I am looking for. Thank you!

I am here not only to learn but also to get a kick in the ass!

I lost all that weight without exercise. Just from 20 min's of reading pluss looking in my fridge I learned I need to up my Protein alot. Cuz some of the stuff I ate were pure weight loss. Nothing to build on.

Thank you...

You don't even really work out, wtf. You want to do steroids and have no experience (recent) even going to a gym. Steroids are not for you, not yet. Not until you can at least commit to a reasonable workout routine, I mean seriously, and keep that up for at least a year. I'm not saying things need to be perfect to benifit from steroids, but you have no dedication and looking for an easy way.

[Kratos]

HGH, would be a waste at your age and stats, flush some money down the toilet for similar results.

A change in diet would help more.

[JinNtonic]

You don't even really work out, wtf. You want to do steroids and have no experience (recent) even going to a gym. Steroids are not for you, not yet. Not until you can at least commit to a reasonable workout routine, I mean seriously, and keep that up for at least a year. I'm not saying things need to be perfect to benifit from steroids, but you have no dedication and looking for an easy way.

I used to be very dedicated. It has been awhile since then. But I am ready to begin the next step from taking control of my weight, to becoming much better in the weight room & cardiowise...

Jumping into everything is setting yourself up to fail. Taking things step by step, should give long term results.

Thx for the input!

I am interested in aas, as well as Hgh, but I am not interested in wasting my time.

Thats why ALL of your advise is greatly appreciated!

[TJM7275]

Well listen to what you are told bro.... I still cant get over Deen's comment.. Kratos knows his shit bro, listen to him. And diet is key!!! remember that if you take nothing from this

[Edgar]

Milos Sarcev Nutrition seminar part 1 of 10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hUtvIcGAD8

[JinNtonic]

Milos Sarcev Nutrition seminar part 1 of 10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hUtvIcGAD8

yes, I have done 1-3. thank you. I am learning.

[JinNtonic]

Well listen to what you are told bro.... I still cant get over Deen's comment.. Kratos knows his shit bro, listen to him. And diet is key!!! remember that if you take nothing from this

deal... thank you!

[JinNtonic]

I am serious. I am not going to post for 2 days then poof gone.

I have lots of questions, and I continue to read & learn.... Thank you...

You guys are great.

[CASHLS]

No matter what path you take it would be wise to include some cardio and exercise. Even 20 minute brisk walk with 15 minutes of exercise will do wonders with or without juice.

[JinNtonic]

Cardio might be the hardest part! lol thx...

Like I said, a kick in the arse is a good thing too!

[JinNtonic]

I just scored a nice elliptical from the in laws... Things are looking good...

[Deen54]

TJM... steroids was not made for body builders.

Steroids will help people gain weight and improve muscle mass whether they eat right or not.


Of course we know if you eat well and work out... it will work better...but don't misinform and say steroids won't work at all...noobs will just think your full of crap.


You are looking at things from a body builders perspective.

It is better to inform them about the facts rather than opinions.

When you start people off on the right foot give them the proper information not one that is misleading.

You cannot just say steroids won't work period.

[Phate]

TJM... steroids was not made for body builders.

Steroids will help people gain weight and improve muscle mass whether they eat right or not.


Of course we know if you eat well and work out... it will work better...but don't misinform and say steroids won't work at all...noobs will just think your full of crap.


You are looking at things from a body builders perspective.

It is better to inform them about the facts rather than opinions.

When you start people off on the right foot give them the proper information not one that is misleading.

You cannot just say steroids won't work period.

I'm with TJM on this, that means i disagree with you btw. I guarentee if you eat pizza once a day when on steroids you WILL NOT GAIN ANY MUSCLE MASS, and as you stated "Steroids will help people gain weight and improve muscle mass whether they eat right or not." which is not true at all, perfect example, my stepfather each a bowl of cereal in the morning, two triple decker PB&J sandwiches for lunch, and a pizza at night. He could run whatever AS he wanted and he wouldn't gain muscle because 1) he doesn't workout(which you didn't mention anything about having to workout) and 2) he doesn't eat hardly any protein, NO PROTEIN, NO MUSCLE, SIMPLE AS THAT

[TJM7275]

Deen, please don't talk down to me like I am some uneducated teenager. I am not looking at them from a bodybuilders prospective. I am looking at this whole thread as a guy who needs the best info he can get before he does something and runs the risk of hurting himself. I agreed with you saying that gear works no matter what, but without proper training and diet it works in a bad way... And you cannot argue that!! I think its an unwritten rule here that when someone post's who is new we send them to the diet forum because in bodybuilding or weight training period, diet is key. When you make a statement like that I think its very misleading and some might take it the wrong way. No one here are experts and we need to help out as much as possible. Not flaming you but when you make a statement like that it opens the flood gates for nothing but bad things!!!

[NATE0406]

I'm with TJM on this, that means i disagree with you btw. I guarentee if you eat pizza once a day when on steroids you WILL NOT GAIN ANY MUSCLE MASS, and as you stated "Steroids will help people gain weight and improve muscle mass whether they eat right or not." which is not true at all, perfect example, my stepfather each a bowl of cereal in the morning, two triple decker PB&J sandwiches for lunch, and a pizza at night. He could run whatever AS he wanted and he wouldn't gain muscle because 1) he doesn't workout(which you didn't mention anything about having to workout) and 2) he doesn't eat hardly any protein, NO PROTEIN, NO MUSCLE, SIMPLE AS THAT

Deen, please don't talk down to me like I am some uneducated teenager. I am not looking at them from a bodybuilders prospective. I am looking at this whole thread as a guy who needs the best info he can get before he does something and runs the risk of hurting himself. I agreed with you saying that gear works no matter what, but without proper training and diet it works in a bad way... And you cannot argue that!! I think its an unwritten rule here that when someone post's who is new we send them to the diet forum because in bodybuilding or weight training period, diet is key. When you make a statement like that I think its very misleading and some might take it the wrong way. No one here are experts and we need to help out as much as possible. Not flaming you but when you make a statement like that it opens the flood gates for nothing but bad things!!!

i agree with both you guys..
DEEN54, i believe that you have it out for many ppl on this board. i read many things that you right that in all honesty dont make sense.

[TJM7275]

He is in the Hall of Shame!!!!!
I think the Mods/Vets have set examples for us to follow and when it comes to handing out advice, we need to follow it like the word of god. These are fellow human beings health were dealing with and we should all be as responsible as we can

[johnnybigguns]

I also agree with the other guys. Deen54 I have seen you give bad advice in other posts too. I think you should do some research and learn alittle more before giving advice. I'm no expert myself but I do know bad advice when I see it.

[Phate]

i agree with both you guys..
DEEN54, i believe that you have it out for many ppl on this board. i read many things that you right that in all honesty dont make sense.

He is in the Hall of Shame!!!!!
I think the Mods/Vets have set examples for us to follow and when it comes to handing out advice, we need to follow it like the word of god. These are fellow human beings health were dealing with and we should all be as responsible as we can

agreed^^^and i'm sorry deen54 if i sounded like i was flaming you, but TJM and NATE are my bros and i get pissed when someone disses my friends

[TJM7275]

I wanna know if he thinks you will get big just sitting on your ass eating pizza??? You will get big..... and FAT
We need some Mods to chime in here... Where the hell is Big, Leggo, Shift, and the other guys????? lol

[johnnybigguns]

And always remember to follow that pizza up with a big bowl of ice cream for protein.

[Phate]

And always remember to follow that pizza up with a big bowl of ice cream for protein.

hell ya, and some jack and coke for more energy, lol