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  1. #1
    dern180 is offline Member
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    I want to run clomid through my whole cycle

    I want to run clomid through my 10 week cycle of Qv Test E ad EQ. At 900mg a week. If I do how should I run it do I taper or stick to one pill a day. Or is better just to wait for the end of the cycle.

  2. #2
    MBaraso's Avatar
    MBaraso is offline Retired Mod
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    I read somewhere to take 50mgs a day. I don't know how accurate that is though....

  3. #3
    OGPackin's Avatar
    OGPackin is offline Anabolic Member
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    Hey bro u may be better off running 20mgs of Nolv throughout ur cycle.

    OG

    While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and Nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.

    But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because Nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids . After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.

    Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron , Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.

    This has advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantage is that when use is discontinued, the estrogen level is still the same and new problems will develop much sooner. The advantage is that it works much faster and has results sooner than with an aromatase blocker like Proviron or arimidex. Therefor, when problems such as gynocomastia occur during a cycle of steroids one will usually start 20 mg/day of Nolva or 100 mg/day of clomid straight away, in conjunction with some Proviron or arimidex. The proviron or arimidex will actively reduce estrogen while the clomid or Nolvadex will solve your ongoing problem straight away. This way, when use is discontinued there is no immediate rebound.

    So which one should you use? Well personally, I'd have to say Nolvadex. Both as an on-cycle anti-estrogen and a post-cycle therapy. As an anti-estrogen its simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that better results are obtained with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key role as well. It deactivates rebound estrogen much faster and more effective. But most importantly, Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural testosterone, where as clomid may actually have a slight negative influence. The reason being that Tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone), whereas clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a bit1.

    Another noteworthy fact about Nolvadex is that it acts more potently as an estrogen in the liver. As you remember, I mentioned that clomiphene and tamoxifen are basically weak estrogens. Well, tamoxifen is apparently still quite potent in the liver. This offers us the positive benefits of this hormone in the liver, while avoiding its negative effects elsewhere in the body. As such Nolvadex can have a very positive impact on negative cholesterol levels2 in the body, and therefore too should be considered a better choice than clomid. It will not solve the problem of bad cholesterol levels during Steroid use , but will help to contain the problem to a larger degree.

    Another reason why I promote the use of Nolvadex over Clomid post-cycle (as if being 3-4 times stronger and having more of a direct effect on restoring natural test wasn't enough) is because it's a lot safer. Not just because it improves lipid profiles, but also because it simply doesn't have the intrinsic side-effects that Clomid has. Clomid causes more acne for sure, but that's mainly because you need to use a 3-4 times higher dose. But Clomid seems to also affect the eyesight. Long-term clomid therapy causes irreversible changes in eyesight3 in users. Irreversible. For me that alone is reason enough to prefer Nolvadex.

    Lastly, one should be aware that use of these compounds can reduce the gains made on steroids. Nolvadex more so than clomid, simply because it is stronger. Estrogen is responsible for a number of anabolic factors such as increasing growth hormone output, upgrading the androgen receptor and improving glucose utilization. This is why aromatizing steroids like testosterone are still best suited for maximum muscle gain. When reducing the estrogen levels, we therefore reduce the potential gains being made. For this reason one may opt to try clomid during a cycle instead of Nolvadex. Although I would imagine that the problem that needed solved would be of more concern, in which case Nolva remains the weapon of choice. It's a plain fact that there is a high correlation between gains and side-effects. Either you go for maximum gains and tolerate the side-effects, or you reduce the side-effects, and with it the gains. That's life, nothing is free.

    Stacking and Use:

    If problems of Gynocomastia or other estrogen related symptoms tend to pop up during a cycle the use of 20-30 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid daily should easily contain the problem, and be used until a few days after the problem subsides. For best results and the least amount of problems upon cessation it is best stacked with Proviron (50 mg) or arimidex (0.5 mg) for this duration as well. Its not advised that these products be ran concomitantly with the steroid for the entire duration of the stack, as this will reduce your gains. Instead cease the usage of anti-estrogens once the problem is contained, and should the problem resurface, simply recommence the use of the products in the same manner as described above.

    Once a cycle of steroids is concluded one should always initiate a post-cycle therapy to help bring back natural testosterone as soon as possible. This will help you to retain the mass you gained. How this is done depends highly on the type of steroid used. If only orals were used, therapy should start immediately, even the last day of the stack. If short-acting esters or water-based injectables were used, therapy should commence within 4-7 days after last injection, and if long-acting esters were used then it should commence 1.5 to 2 weeks after the last injection was given. The length of the therapy will vary as well, from 3-5 weeks. The longer acting the product was, the longer therapy should be continued to make sure all suppressive factors are cleared before use of Clomid/Nolvadex is discontinued.

    For best results, it is best stacked with HCG (Human Chorionic gonadotrophin), which functions as an LH analog and can help bring testicle size back up. HCG use starts the last week of a cycle, and on from there every 5-6 days (usually 1500-3000 IU) and discontinued 1.5 to weeks prior to the cessation of Nolvadex/clomid. The reason being that HCG itself is also suppressive of natural testosterone and should be out of the body before therapy is over, or it will inhibit natural testicle function. But I can not stress enough that HCG possibly plays a more important role in post-cycle therapy than clomid/Nolvadex. For Clomid and Nolvadex, doses are usually tapered down. Its best to start with 40-50 mg of Nolvadex or 150 mg of Clomid for the first week or the first two weeks, and then finish the program with 20-25 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid for an additional two weeks

  4. #4
    djdjdjddjon's Avatar
    djdjdjddjon is offline Anabolic Member
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    great post og

  5. #5
    Rickson's Avatar
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    Are you using it as an anti-e or are you using it in the hopes of battling testicular atrophy?

  6. #6
    OGPackin's Avatar
    OGPackin is offline Anabolic Member
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    Thxs dj!

    OG

  7. #7
    AnabolLecter75's Avatar
    AnabolLecter75 is offline Junior Member
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    bump

  8. #8
    dern180 is offline Member
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    OG that was one hell of a post. Thanks for the info it's was very helpful.

  9. #9
    ABsolute vodKA is offline New Member
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    using clomid in a cycle to prevent gyno or bloat would be piontless but i know guys that run thru a cycle to natural test purposes

  10. #10
    Mastiff is offline Member
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    Great post, OG. Thanks.

  11. #11
    dern180 is offline Member
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    Originally posted by ABsolute vodKA
    using clomid in a cycle to prevent gyno or bloat would be piontless but i know guys that run thru a cycle to natural test purposes
    As if I didn't know that already. I just want to keep my test levels up and my balls in check.
    Last edited by dern180; 10-31-2002 at 04:08 PM.

  12. #12
    Penetrator's Avatar
    Penetrator is offline Junior Member
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    Relax girls!

  13. #13
    dern180 is offline Member
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    Originally posted by Penetrator
    Relax girls!
    FUNNY

  14. #14
    ABsolute vodKA is offline New Member
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    hey dern....who are you kidding...dont play tough guy with me, you say you know this and you know that ..but if that was the case you wouldnt have these redundant posts about clomid and you balls and how you cant shoot aload..do a search on your posts! and they are either questions about peoples prices, bumps, or about your tiny balls..and by the way , posting wanna be bad ass statements like die and im pissing you off aint gonna make your little peanuts any bigger...oh..thats right you already knew that ..clown!
    PS learn how to read.........in my post it clearly stated that i knew guys that used clomid to keep there test levels up...which i was just adding to the post ...can i post dern..oh thanks all knowledgable one..lol please ,i already know your stupid, now i know you cant read either, but again you insult me, i let the first one go outta respect to the board and straight up guys here, your picking a fight you cant finish so lay off or ill really lay in to ya

    my apologies to the mods and memebers, but he flamed me twice, and i let the first go but i drew the line there..

  15. #15
    dern180 is offline Member
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    Originally posted by ABsolute vodKA
    hey dern....who are you kidding...dont play tough guy with me, you say you know this and you know that ..but if that was the case you wouldnt have these redundant posts about clomid and you balls and how you cant shoot aload..do a search on your posts! and they are either questions about peoples prices, bumps, or about your tiny balls..and by the way , posting wanna be bad ass statements like die and im pissing you off aint gonna make your little peanuts any bigger...oh..thats right you already knew that ..clown!
    PS learn how to read.........in my post it clearly stated that i knew guys that used clomid to keep there test levels up...which i was just adding to the post ...can i post dern..oh thanks all knowledgable one..lol please ,i already know your stupid, now i know you cant read either, but again you insult me, i let the first one go outta respect to the board and straight up guys here, your picking a fight you cant finish so lay off or ill really lay in to ya

    my apologies to the mods and memebers, but he flamed me twice, and i let the first go but i drew the line there..
    Are u kidding...grow up . I don't know every thing I'm still learning. There alot of shit I don't know. Thats why I ask qustion and stuff like that. And I don't need to act tough over a computer that just kind of sad. Give me a break already. So I say right now let's end this bull shit that been going on.

  16. #16
    dern180 is offline Member
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    One more thing my balls are just fine. And for repect for the board not you I will get erase that die statement.

  17. #17
    ABsolute vodKA is offline New Member
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    Originally posted by dern180
    Are u kidding...grow up . I don't know every thing I'm still learning. There alot of shit I don't know. Thats why I ask qustion and stuff like that. And I don't need to act tough over a computer that just kind of sad. Give me a break already. So I say right now let's end this bull shit that been going on.
    ironically your telling me to grow up! im not the one posting die or now im really pissed off..and dont act tough over the computer cause it is sad and only says things about you in your personal life...as far as "ending this bullshit" nothing ever started your the one thats got the hard on for me, cause every post you start and i comment in youve got some smart ass response towards me......i never came at ya like that...but its a 2 way street..believe that

  18. #18
    ABsolute vodKA is offline New Member
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    and as for you comment on how your edtiing your post for the respect for the board and not me ...well, kinda sad it took my post for you to see maybe your being disrespectful to the board...but i expect nothing less from your bandwagon follow the leader type, and i dont want respect from you, so save it

  19. #19
    dern180 is offline Member
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    Originally posted by ABsolute vodKA
    and as for you comment on how your edtiing your post for the respect for the board and not me ...well, kinda sad it took my post for you to see maybe your being disrespectful to the board...but i expect nothing less from your bandwagon follow the leader type, and i dont want respect from you, so save it
    I won't be giving you any repect you can count on that. And u know what I was an ass hole in those post. And I 'm stright up about that deal with it. And this ends now. I don't want to keep posting these bull shit reponses to you any more. It 's waste of time.

  20. #20
    ABsolute vodKA is offline New Member
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    im gald you admit your an asshole..and ill agree, and really dont have time to respond to my posts , save your time to respond to post about what people are paying for gear and your problems in the bed room(which you probably dont have, lets face it , you dont get laid, but you dont gotta bullshit about to fit in) if you wanna end it , then shut the fuck up already , instead of trying to get the last smart ass word in, and your doing a horrible job at that too

  21. #21
    seniormateus's Avatar
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    Dern, Vodka, Dern, Vodka, Hatfields, McCoys.... you guys are funny and this is why toughman grudges are so popular. Hope you guys can squash it and be friends. Just kidding but better than enemies. You were big to admit that you were an asshole Dern and I respect that. Absolute I probably would have handled the situation similar. Lets all watch American History X again together. I'm not trying to mock a serious situation but hopefully provide a little humor to make you both laugh a little. Good luck with the fued!

  22. #22
    ABsolute vodKA is offline New Member
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    Originally posted by seniormateus
    Dern, Vodka, Dern, Vodka, Hatfields, McCoys.... you guys are funny and this is why toughman grudges are so popular. Hope you guys can squash it and be friends. Just kidding but better than enemies. You were big to admit that you were an asshole Dern and I respect that. Absolute I probably would have handled the situation similar. Lets all watch American History X again together. I'm not trying to mock a serious situation but hopefully provide a little humor to make you both laugh a little. Good luck with the fued!
    hey bro...there really isnt any fued going on, he flamed me in another post and laughed it off, but then i come back on the board and read another post in which he flames me again like 3rd grader, i never even talked to this clown before, but it seems everytime i respond to a post he started he comes at me on the defense like i fucked his girl or something, when i respond to a post or create my own its simply for the sole purpose of knowledge about AAS, im no newbie just looking to start something, hence the reason why i ignored his first couple of comments, ive never had a prob on any other board and met and learned from some great bros, and then theres punks like this that acts like hes on a gram a week shooting his mouth off for no reason as far as i could tell.....hes got no right to talk to me like that, and i refuse to let him, so ill let him contradict himself and show his true colors in an attempt to piss me off, unfortunately i dont get mad, but ill get even, but im glad your getting a kick out it cause i am too. this will go one untill he cuts the shit and get off my case and maybe focus on what we are all doing here!

    again my apologies the mods and members

  23. #23
    seniormateus's Avatar
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    I feel your pain absolute, no apologies needed. My belief is that I don't step on toes I step necks when somone steps on my toes. People either love me or hate me. I just had to put my .02 in because this was probably the funniest thread I've read. Peace!!

  24. #24
    dern180 is offline Member
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    Originally posted by ABsolute vodKA
    im gald you admit your an asshole..and ill agree, and really dont have time to respond to my posts , save your time to respond to post about what people are paying for gear and your problems in the bed room(which you probably dont have, lets face it , you dont get laid, but you dont gotta bullshit about to fit in) if you wanna end it , then shut the fuck up already , instead of trying to get the last smart ass word in, and your doing a horrible job at that too
    This one made me laugh. You have no idea what your talking about. You just keep going. At this point you should just write a book. I can't wait to see your next post it should be a chapter long. I need to shut up , you need to. But you won't because your 16 year old baby. And one other thing stop kissing ass.

  25. #25
    iron4life79's Avatar
    iron4life79 is offline Retired Moderator
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    ok, ive read everything here, and im going to tell you both to cool off.

    youve both made your points........lets get on with the discussion at hand. theres no need to drag this out. clean it up, or get off the board and cool down before either one of you come back.


    peace bb79
    Last edited by iron4life79; 11-02-2002 at 10:49 PM.

  26. #26
    dern180 is offline Member
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    Barbells you make a good point. It's just this guy won't end it. It's over for me but not for him.

  27. #27
    the original jason is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    bb is right, flames are not allow, whatever u do dont do it here, if u wanna argue do it in pm. Whoever started it is irrelevant,

    peace

  28. #28
    dern180 is offline Member
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    Originally posted by The Original Jason
    bb is right, flames are not allow, whatever u do dont do it here, if u wanna argue do it in pm. Whoever started it is irrelevant,

    peace
    Not a prob with me it ends here.

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