2nd cycle for a 40+ dude - Critique please

[mperk]

hey guys;

I am 2 weeks out from finishing my first cycle - and guess what? I 'm thinking of the second! Hahahaha - to everyone’s surprise I'm sure. I'll be done the end of the month, Have Dec-Mar to lose 10 lbs hoping that will get me down to 200-205 at 10%bf.



So I'm thinking of ordering my next cycle during the Christmas rush in the hopes that it will all get thru customs. last year i lost $300 of test to the feds...:-(



Ist cycle

wks 1-12: 500 Test C (2 pins)

wks 1-4; 10-14 dbol 50mg ED

wks 14-17 clomid


2nd cycle goal

gain 20lbs of mostly lean mass from 200 to 220 but still have abs & some definition. Maintain 215 off cycle 10% BF


OPT ONE
Wk 1-4 test C 500 mg (2 pins) (it's a leftover - want to use it up)
Wk 5-12 Test E 500mg (2 pins)
Wk 1-10 deca 200mg 1pin/week
Wk 10-14 winny oral 25mg/day
Wk 1-12 .5mg adex eod
Clomid
WK 14 50mg
WK 15 50mg
WK 16 50mg
WK 17 25mg
WK 18 25mg
WK 18 25mg

OPT 2
Weeks 1-14 Test E @ 750mg/wk(inject 2x's wk)
Weeks 1-10 Tren E @ 400mg/wk(inject 2x's wk)
Weeks 1-14 Letro @ .25mg/day
For PCT:
Weeks 15-18 HCG 500iu 2x/wk
Weeks 17-20 Nolva @ 25mg/day
Weeks 17-20 Proviron @ 50mg/day

[Mulciber]

think id go with #1.. i like tren but being your second cycle id wait..

id run the adex right up to pct.. i run it right through but thats me..
think id add some nolvadex to your pct as well.
might consider bumping up the deca just a tad.

maybe 100mg clomid 20mg nolvadex for 2 weeks
then 50mg clomid 20mg nolvadex for 2 more

i run 100mg clomid and 20mg nolvadex for 30 days.

run it a little longer if you feel necessary

[Dinosaur]

wow ready to take the trip back to the dark side. it seems like ur enjoying it man.
opt 1 i would up the winny to 50mg a day since 25mg is considered low dose.
also up the deca to atleast 300mg i encourage low dose iam not a big fan of higher doses.i would go with option numero 1.

[inky-e]

Option 2 for me....up the tren to 500 and drink lots of water..tren is toxic...I felt the effects for two weeks after I stopped...but got great gains..absolutely the most productive cycle so far...and drop the test to 500 mg's a week.

[MercyDog]

test only can be a very good cycle also, you still have alot of years to be running these cycles on and off, don't blow-out to quick.

[T_Own]

those cycles are a little backwards imo.. low dose deca , higher dose tren ? deca + winstrol and not with the tren?

if you think you can handle tren i would go 350-400mg/w for 10-12, 500mg test 12-14, 50mg winstrol 12-16, then pct. also, you don't need .25mg letro ed, and why use a different ai depending on the cycle?

if not tren, 600mg deca 1-12 500mg test 1-14 pct 16-20

[mperk]

Hey guys thanks for the input. i am leaning towards number one - altho the tren is calling - maybe i'll save that for # 3.

[Dukkit]

i dont like any of the cycles....

unless you change some things up

option 2 but tweak it

lower your test. for a second cycle you dont need it that high
500mg/week tops
but since you want to run tren , i would lower the test to 350mg/week

then raise your tren to 525mg/week
thats 75mg/day

lowering your test will prevent progesterone, prolactin sides from occuring with the tren.
plus tren is the stronger compound. will give you the most results. why use a high dose of a weaker compound (test) and low dose of a stronger compound (tren)???
doesnt make sense to me.

i would run the tren week 1-11

then the test e week 1-14
gives the tren time to clear.

let the tren do the work. but run enough test to keep your body operating smoothly.


dont run the letro during cycle. just have it no hand in case you see any symptoms.

HCG is fine

Clomid week 1-2 100mg/day
week 3-4 50mg/day

nolva week 1-2 40mg/day
week 3-6 20mg/day


just my opinion though

[mperk]

great - thanks man - would you recommend tren a or tren E?

[Dinosaur]

tren E is better u would probably get way with tren cough.

[Dukkit]

tren E is better u would probably get way with tren cough.

how is tren e "better?"

and i would say Tren A

since its his first time with Tren, this way if he gets bad sides or cant handle the sides.. he can stop or lower the dose and the affects will go away or lessen in a matter of days. as with Tren E, it would take well over a week

[Dinosaur]

^^^ that's also an option but its not for me to decide. everyone lay down there idea and its up to him to choose what best fits him.

[Dukkit]

^^^ that's also an option but its not for me to decide. everyone lay down there idea and its up to him to choose what best fits him.

you didnt answer my question...

hmmm...

[jimmyinkedup]

I like option 1. I love test /deca winny or test/deca tren but 2nd cycle id use deca. I would change the following - Up deca dosage (i like 400mg/week) / run winny 9-13 / run dex week 1-13 / start hcg week 14 & adjust pct timing accordingly. I really like synergy between 19 nors and winny - i also think I get fewer progesterone related sides when i use winny with a 19 nor. Can up winny to 50 mgs but might be fine @ 25 ...2nd cycle 1st time with winny try 25 ...orals act fast ..if not seeing anything after 1st 2 weeks up to 50 mgs. Pay close attention though as winny effects arent gonna be dramatic. Good luck.

[Dinosaur]

you didnt answer my question...

hmmm...

you suggested tren a because of the short esters in it and side effects can b quickly controled if thats an issue for him u laid down ur opinion and i laid mine.
what else do u want me to answer?
since he already made up his mind!!

[Dukkit]

you suggested tren a because of the short esters in it and side effects can b quickly controled if thats an issue for him u laid down ur opinion and i laid mine.
what else do u want me to answer?
since he already made up his mind!!

you said Tren E is better...

im asking why is it better then Tren A??

like im seriously trying to learn.... not busting your balls.

[mperk]

I like option 1. I love test /deca winny or test/deca tren but 2nd cycle id use deca. I would change the following - Up deca dosage (i like 400mg/week) / run winny 9-13 / run dex week 1-13 / start hcg week 14 & adjust pct timing accordingly. I really like synergy between 19 nors and winny - i also think I get fewer progesterone related sides when i use winny with a 19 nor. Can up winny to 50 mgs but might be fine @ 25 ...2nd cycle 1st time with winny try 25 ...orals act fast ..if not seeing anything after 1st 2 weeks up to 50 mgs. Pay close attention though as winny effects arent gonna be dramatic. Good luck.

Thanks Jimmy - In your opinion, what would you say to watch for - I tried 25mg winny before and really liked it, but thot it was very subtle. Seemed to keep my dry and got more cut. What about U? Thanks, Man!

Hey Charrif & dukkitdalaw;

Thanks for the opinions. I'm trying to learn as much as possible - if not for this cycle then the next. I really want to go for lean gains, but a also want mass - so I'll have to figure this out over the course of the next few cycles.

What would u guys say are the biggest/worst sides with Tren - sweats? cough? and is the cough just like a bronchitus type thing that lasts for a few days or is it the whole cycle?

Thanks guys - really appreciate the help.

[Dukkit]

Thanks Jimmy - In your opinion, what would you say to watch for - I tried 25mg winny before and really liked it, but thot it was very subtle. Seemed to keep my dry and got more cut. What about U? Thanks, Man!

Hey Charrif & dukkitdalaw;

Thanks for the opinions. I'm trying to learn as much as possible - if not for this cycle then the next. I really want to go for lean gains, but a also want mass - so I'll have to figure this out over the course of the next few cycles.

What would u guys say are the biggest/worst sides with Tren - sweats? cough? and is the cough just like a bronchitus type thing that lasts for a few days or is it the whole cycle?

Thanks guys - really appreciate the help.

well for lean mass gains... Tren wins hands down

and the cough is only right after you inject. lasts like a min. but not everyone gets it. and not everyone gets in with every shot

worst side.. i would say insomnia
i dont get it on tren. but i can imagine it would ruin your whole day. the gym. your attitude... etc.

the sweats. the out of breath feeling i can deal with. when i dont get any sleep... ppl die.

lol

[jimmyinkedup]

Thanks Jimmy - In your opinion, what would you say to watch for - I tried 25mg winny before and really liked it, but thot it was very subtle. Seemed to keep my dry and got more cut. What about U? Thanks, Man!
Thats what id watch for . I really think it helps with 19 nor related sides. Like i said i love the test based/ dht based/ 19 nor stack combo. I tried it years ago thinking it just made sense to approach with all 3 roid types and it worked very well for me. So well that I still follow it to this day. If you never used deca id try it , if you respond well to it you'll like it alot. I LOVE tren (ace over enan) but i would def see how u respond to deca for only 2nd cycle , much less toxic, safer roid and your body will feel great. 10 weeks is the min i would use it for. Either way deca or tren I think youll do well. - Sorry for rambling on - good luck

[Dinosaur]

you said Tren E is better...

im asking why is it better then Tren A??

like im seriously trying to learn.... not busting your balls.

i know ur not trying to bust balls but i just fond it meaningless to carry on when he made up up his mind. i believe we r all here to learn from each other no matter how experinced you are .
i told him to go for tren e for few reasons. 1st thinking its bulking cycle, 2nd if he want to do eod inject vs ed and for the long esters 15 to 16 days.
but if i had to choose between the two i would go with tren A less side effects, water retention...ect

[Dukkit]

i know ur not trying to bust balls but i just fond it meaningless to carry on when he made up up his mind. i believe we r all here to learn from each other no matter how experinced you are .
i told him to go for tren e for few reasons. 1st thinking its bulking cycle, 2nd if he want to do eod inject vs ed and for the long esters 15 to 16 days.
but if i had to choose between the two i would go with tren A less side effects, water retention...ect

its not meaningless when someone wants to learn

and you answered

thank you.

[Dinosaur]

its not meaningless when someone wants to learn

and you answered

thank you.

c u still missunderstanding
i said i thought he already made up his mind of choosing what he want to go with.
as far as learning, if he wants learn i have no problem xplaining or charing to people my experinces. don't take it the wrong way.

[jim37]

well for lean mass gains... Tren wins hands down

and the cough is only right after you inject. lasts like a min. but not everyone gets it. and not everyone gets in with every shot

worst side.. i would say insomnia
i dont get it on tren. but i can imagine it would ruin your whole day. the gym. your attitude... etc.

the sweats. the out of breath feeling i can deal with. when i dont get any sleep... ppl die.

lol

insominia associated with tren. can be helped with phos. serine before bed!!!

[jim37]

i would save tren . for later cycles and run test./deca /winny/hgh!!! if you want ###'s let me know!!

[mperk]

Dudes - Awsome feedback - thanks - this weekend i'm going to chart it out and place my order. i'll go w/ the deca cycle first and then look for tren next summer/fall.

[Mooseman33]

if ur going deca , make sure u get caber to have on hand......