Insulin, Bodybuilding, and Diabetes

[animal013]

This is more out of curiosity than from any short-term plans to use insulin , but I have a question for those of you who have experience with it.

Is it a bad idea to use insulin for bodybuilding purposes if there is a family history of type 2 diabetes? My Dad was just diagnosed with type-2, and his mother was supposedly borderline. From what his doctor told him, years of bad eating and exercise habits led to insulin insensitivity and eventually to type 2 diabetes. Do any of you guys think that your insulin use has led to lower insulin sensitivity? Do any of you have type 2 diabetes?

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

[Rickson]

I haven't seen any studies showing long term effects from insulin use such as diabetes. However, I think that insulin "cycles" should be kept relatively short and time to recover allowed. I believe JuiceJunkie found he was having some slight problems with recovery on longer insulin cycles so you may want to PM him since he is the resident expert on insulin.

[Mastiff]

I'm not the resident expert on slin, but here are a few thoughts. Docs used to wait until the beta cells were damaged before putting people on exogenous slin. They discovered that exogenous slin helps protect the beta cells from damage, so now they start slin use early, before the beta cells are damaged.
I'm taking growth, which lowers insulin sensitivety. The fatty acids growth releases thru lipolysis and hyperinsulimia from the insulin resistance caused by growth are what damages the beta cells when you take growth. There is a new study showing growth and AAS can lead to diabetes in older people. I take slin for its protective effect on the beta cells and its prolonging effect on IGF-1.

[Rickson]

Mastiff can you post the study showing AAS and Growth can lead to diabetes in older people if you remember where you saw it? I would be interested in reading it but can't find it.

By the way I agree that taking insulin while on GH to lighten the load on the pancreas and to help with the loss of insulin sensativity caused by Gh is a good idea. It has been shown however that people who are going through treatments for leukemia and required to take steroids (not Anabolic steroids) like prednisolone and are given insulin to deal with the problem have been known to become type 2 diabetics although this is rare. In short I think you would be fine but I am always careful with giving out advice on insulin.

[Mastiff]

From Nandi on cuttingedgemuscle.

Geriatric Growth Hormone Interventions
From the latest Journal Of the American Medical Association


Geriatric Growth Hormone Interventions Not Ready For Clinical Use


11/13/2002
By Elda Hauschildt


Growth hormone therapy, with and without sex steroids , increases lean body mass and decreases fat mass in healthy older men and women.

Researchers in the United States warn, however, that rate of adverse effects indicate the interventions are not ready for clinical use and should be reserved for controlled studies. These side effects include diabetes and glucose intolerance.

Growth hormones plus sex steroids also increase muscle strength marginally and maximum oxygen uptake in men. But, investigators from the US National Institutes of Health in Bethesda and Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, both in Maryland, say there was no significant change in strength or cardiovascular endurance in women. "The beneficial effects of growth hormone appeared to be augmented by co-administration of testosterone but not hormone replacement therapy (HRT)," they explain.

The researchers enrolled 57 women and 74 men, aged 65 to 88 years, in a 26-week, randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Participants in the parallel-group study were healthy, ambulatory and lived in the community when recruited between June 1992 and July 1998.

A total of 35 participants received subcutaneous growth hormone three times a week plus sex steroids: HRT (transdermal estradiol plus oral medroxyprogesterone acetate) for women and testosterone enanthate for men. Another 30 participants received growth hormone plus placebo sex steroid , and 35 other participants were given sex steroid plus placebo growth hormone. The final group of 31 participants received placebo growth hormone and placebo sex steroids.

Lean body mass increased in women by 0.4 kilograms with placebo, 1.2 kg with HRT, 1 kg with growth hormone and 2.1 kg with both growth hormone and HRT. Fat mass decreased significantly in women in both the growth hormone and growth hormone plus HRT groups.

In men, lean body mass increased by 0.1 kg with placebo, 1.4 kg with testosterone, 3.1 kg with growth hormone and 4.3 kg with growth hormone plus testosterone. Like the women, fat mass also decreased significantly with growth hormone and growth hormone plus sex steroids.

The men's strength did not increase except for a marginally significant increase with growth hormone plus testosterone. Their maximum oxygen uptake increased with growth hormone and growth hormone plus testosterone.

Diabetes or glucose intolerance occurred in 18 men treated with growth hormone, compared with seven of those not receiving the hormone.
JAMA, 2002; 288: 2282-2292

Here is the thread. http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/For...&threadid=1374

[Rickson]

The study doesn't show that as a permanent problem though correct or am I missing something. We already know there will be insulin insensativity while on GH but did that show anything saying the problem was permanent.

[Mastiff]

I thougght they were saying 18 men wound up getting diabetes. Here is more from the thread:
Nandi:
Well, they are referring to type 2 diabetes, or Non Insulin Dependent Diabetes. Glucose intolerance is one manifestation of the disease which ultimately leads to pancreatic islet cell destruction. The big debate seems to be what comes first: pancreatic beta cell dysfunction leading to glucose intolerance, or vice versa, insulin resistance which ultimately leads to beta cell dysfunction and damage.

It may happen both ways, depending on the circumstances

GH causes insulin resistance by interfering with the cellular insulin signalling pathway (1). The body secretes more insulin in an attempt to compensate. The resulting hyperinsulinemia causes more damage by downregulating the insulin receptor and other cellular proteins involved in insulin signalling, like IRS-1 (2).

The resulting hyperglycemia is thought to be directly toxic to beta cells. Moreover, the islet cells "burn out" in some poorly understood way from pumping out all the extra insulin.

GH also stimulates lipolysis, which leads to higher levels of circulating free fatty acids. These are also contribute to the insulin resistance and ultimate diabetes by interfereing with insulin signalling and altering the function of beta cells. (3)

I have a feeling it's going to be a while before mainstream medicine accepts GH as a treatment for aging; and maybe rightfully so.

The study also mentioned that carpal tunnel symptoms were more common in men taking GH + testosterone (32% vs 0%) and arthralgias were more common in men taking GH (41% vs 0%).


(1) Diabetes 2001 Aug;50(8):1891-900

Growth hormone induces cellular insulin resistance by uncoupling phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase and its downstream signals in 3T3-L1 adipocytes.

Takano A, Haruta T, Iwata M, Usui I, Uno T, Kawahara J, Ueno E, Sasaoka T, Kobayashi M

(2) Exp Biol Med (Maywood) 2002 Mar;227(3):149-57

Growth hormone-induced alterations in the insulin-signaling system.

Dominici FP, Turyn D.

(3) Biochem Pharmacol 2002 Jun 1;63(11):1921-35

Desensitization of insulin secretion.

Rustenbeck I.

[animal013]

The resulting hyperinsulinemia causes more damage by downregulating the insulin receptor and other cellular proteins involved in insulin signalling, like IRS-1

Aren't we directly inducing a state of hyperinsulinemia with our post-workout insulin injections, and therefore risking the same? Or is the frequency/ duration of the insulin spikes not sufficient to cause this same down-regulation of the insulin receptors?

[Rickson]

Kev013,
You are correct that the duration of the insulin does not cause a permanent insensativity while the effects of GH are longer lasting (even though the drug itself last a very short time) causing a bigger problem with insensativity.