Thread: how the juice flows
11-18-2002, 12:56 AM #1
how the juice flows
hey i was wondering if there are any doc's in the house or anyone that can actually explain the process inside of a person .
once AS is injected how does it get around to everything .muscle ,kidney's ,s/d your hpta,prostate etc etc
Is it all througfh blood
Just curious if someone wss able to explain the science behind it .i couldnt find it anywhere
11-18-2002, 06:35 AM #2VET
- Join Date
- Sep 2001
not a doc, but did some searching / reading after i read this, so correct me if i'm wrong.
it flows around in the plasma. Plasma is the liquid portion of the blood. Blood cells like red blood cells float in the plasma. Also dissolved in plasma are electrolytes, nutrients and vitamins (absorbed from the intestines or produced by the body), hormones, clotting factors, and proteins such as albumin and immunoglobulins (antibodies to fight infection). Plasma distributes the substances it contains as it circulates throughout the body
(** last portion copied from a web-site www.howstuffworks.com)
11-18-2002, 06:49 AM #3
not real up on the exact mechanisms in every tissue. AS are hormones that are carried in the blood stream and are free to permeate cell membranes. as a result they bind directly to DNA and cause certain genes to turn on. this occurs in every tissue when they are at high concentration in the body, leading to a number of effects depending on the tissue (eg. the skin becomes oily, the muscles hypertropy, the brain?)
Last edited by sin; 12-19-2003 at 10:44 PM.
11-18-2002, 11:24 AM #4
I am just going to copy one of my old post in the middle of this so if some of it doesn't make sense you will know why. Once AS enters the blood stream the ester (if there is one) is cleaved over time depending on the length of that ester.
This is a much more complicated issue then people seem to understand. First off you don't have very many AR sites and they become saturated on low doses. There is pretty good evidence that upregulation occurs when androgens are introduced which isn't exactly what you are asking but very important to the discussion. Rather than go into a 25 page explanation of this process I am just going to do a quick run through. Ironfist is right that AR sites are always regenerating but wrong in saying they don't become saturated. DJ is right that the halflife of an occupied receptor determines how long before the receptor is destroyed or freed but is wrong in assuming this makes an androgen less effective. AAS work by several different mechanisms since the majority of the time receptors are occupied and we all know that large doses over long periods of time still yield better results for overall muscle growth although it may not appear so by the short term growth you get on a new cycle. Just a quick overview. Once an Androgen molecule is bound to an AR (making that AR become active) then the AR must form a dimer with another active AR. Then the dimer attaches to certain parts of the DNA causing certain genes to produce mRNA. Proteins like Myosin are produced from particular genes helping with muscle growth. There seems to be an assumption that one dimer ultimately causes one protein and then the Dimer (or combined active AR's) are rendered useless until the steroid molecule becomes unattached. This is not the case several proteins can be formed continuously while the dimer is active or none can be. The real question isn't whether you want to clean your receptors but how can you make them stay active and effective longer. Something like ARA70 ( a protein which can improve the activity of an AR by up to ten times) or possibly an orphan receptor might one day be used to help with this process but I know of no ongoing research at this time. Increasing the metabolism can cause quicker AR turnover supposedly but won't cause upregulation. I do believe (and this is a personal theory unsubstantiated so take it with a grain of salt) that "fresh" receptors may cause a quick upregulation in AR that then levels off but ultimately the reason you stop gaining is that you keep getting farther from your set point and closer to your genetic potential.
Theoretically you are right in the fact that if all the androgens had a free receptor site to fill but not so many that finding a matching one to form a dimer was an issue then growth would be incredible. The truth is however that very low levels of AAS fill the small amounts of AR we have and yet there is still a noticeable difference between someone doing 400 mg of test (for example) and someone doing 1000mg. Since both are enough to more than fill available receptors why the increase in growth? Unfortunately their are no concrete answers but best guesses by most include Enhanced Protein Synthesis (obvious and direct result of AR activation), Enhanced Growth Factor Acivity ( this can depend on AAS), Enhanced Activation of Myogenic stem cells (Satellite cells), Enhanced Myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio), and new myofiber formation. Not all these can be explained simply by AR activation and other mechanisms such as almost instantaneous Nerve Tissue response have to be completely seperate of AR activation. So to answer your question in two parts having filled receptors maybe a good thing when helping other mechanisms to get involved causing the androgen to be more effective and an activated dimer may continue to cause an increase in mRNA during its whole life (of course their is no guarantee it will). Thus androgens may in reality be more effective when Sites are filled and occupied.
As far as its effects on other body parts most involve the negative feedback loop the body uses to try and reestablish homeostasis. Thus the introduction of too much synthetic hormone causes the HPTA to shut down and stop producing Test. The parent hormone on an injectible passes through the liver and is rendered useless however in a 17AA the molecule is protected from liver and stomach enzymes and thus must pass many times through the liver in a short period of time. The kidneys don't take to big a beating from most AAS as long as one stays hydrated and prostate inflammation can be caused by many factors. I hope that gave you an idea of what you were looking for in terms of the life of AAS in the body. There were many things left out but that is a basic overview.
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