clomid without roids

**Lightning** · 11-29-2002, 09:35 AM

ok, just a thought. what would happen is you used clomid or other anti estrogens without gear? My test levels are within the normal range, but on the low end of the normal spectrum, which bums me out. My tool works fine, and I have drive.. but a lil increase wouldnt hurt.... It seriously hits my self esteem. it makes me feel like not enough of a man sometimes even though everything works fine. the doc wont give me anything cause im only 18 and he says my shit might get better normally, and while it IS within the normal range, but i'd like to have it within the normal range in the high end, instead of the low end. would clomid help me do this?

I was thinking that if clomid can bring up your endogenous testosterone after a cycle, it might be able to do it normally too.

i guess my question is: Would it bring normal levels up, or is it only useful to bring supressed levels back to normal?

***Cycleon*** · 11-29-2002, 10:34 AM

it could bring it up but IMO you would be better of running Femara or Arimdex (or Aromasin if you can find it) ED if you are not juicing - the sides on clomid are rather bothersome and it tends to make me bloat a bit

**Lightning** · 11-29-2002, 11:20 AM

thanx for the advice, i will ask my doctor again, see if i can get a prescription. if not are those hard to get online? or do i need to go black market?

**djdjdjddjon** · 11-29-2002, 11:55 AM

also worth mentioning is that you might not even be low, 1 test doesn't really tell everything, you should go for a follow up test or two...testosterone is released by the testes in 'spurts'...and the halflife of test is pretty short a few hours if im not mistaken, so maybe you just caught your blood at a bad time, couldn't hurt to get tested again...good luck bro

**Rickson** · 11-29-2002, 01:23 PM

Clomid is not the best choice. If you are going to try this treatment for longterm use then you are better off using Nolvadex . Both drugs are SERMS which stimulate the hypothalmus to release more GnRH, which then prompts the Pituitary to release more LH and FSH. Basically clomid binds to ER sites in the Brain which then stops the natural estrogen circulating in the blood from binding and fools the body into thinking the estrogen level in the blood stream is to low. In response, the hypothalmus releases more GnRH, causing the pituatary to pump out more FSH.

Why Nolvadex over Clomid for long term use? A couple of reasons.
First while I think clomid gets a better initial response for bringing HPTA axis back on line over time Clomid decreases pituitary sensativity to GnRH while the exact opposite is true of Nolvadex. Clomid also has an intrinsic estrogenic effect on the pituatary which causes in increase in transcortin and SHBG levels. This potential rise in SHBG may comparably decrease free active test. So while both seem to be stongly anti-estrogenic at the hypothalmus clomid has a weak estrogen activity in the pituitary while nolvadex remains stongly anti-estogenic at the pituitary. We all agree that Nolvadex is a stronger anti-e so that is also a plus and it will also be cheaper when looking at comparable dosages.

Both are processed by the liver so you should be somewhat concerned about liver values over long periods of time.

**Epic01** · 11-29-2002, 06:37 PM

great post Rickson, you never cease to amaze me.

**Lightning** · 11-30-2002, 12:50 AM

i'm talking about failrly small doses, for i guess a medium period of time, i just need a small boost, and i'd be willing to go on and off, dont wanna kill my health... i feel really stupid doing this. i just wigh my doc had been more receptive, because now i have to go black market cause he wouldnt put me on anything... i so think i would have been better off doing this under the supervision of a doctor

**Lightning** · 11-30-2002, 08:20 AM

in response to djdjdjddjon

i know its not low low. I can feel it. I look around at my friends and I dont have the same agressiveness level, or sex drive. I feel at age 18 i should be on my peak on all these, but i'm not, and while everything is there.. it all could be a bit better, and the last thing i need at this age is people cracking on my nuts.. or even worse.. what if my tool were to not cooperate when i'm with a girl, i've been close.. it allways works.. but sometimes it just takes a bit of warming up, and that's just non acceptable when you are in HS. as i said everything works fine, but i know it could be better, and as i said before it IS in the normal and healthy range... i just want a "booster" i dont want an actual steroid because from all ive heard about young kids doing roids in this board i'm scared to death to do a cycle before i'm 21-22 now. I also decided against most of those supplements which are basically steroids , but kinda not really loopholeish around the law thing. Juts because if they have the same effect on my body juice does, i assume they will have the same problems too as the problems arise from what they do to your body not the substance itself in lots of cases. Plus i dont wanna do pills, i'm scared of messing up my liver. WHen i do something, you better be sure i'll be sticking myself... i figure if i let someone drive 14 guage needles through my nipples some sticks from a 22g in my ass aint nothin

**nuke** · 11-30-2002, 08:56 AM

You do realize that we all peak at different ages right ?

**mekler** · 11-30-2002, 02:19 PM

just deadlift and squat with some really heavy weights, then let's see how you feel afterwards. i kinda understand what you're saying, sometimes i feel like my test production is on the low side, but all that goes away after a nice n heavy deadlift session... then i feel like an animal..

**projectsherv** · 11-30-2002, 06:42 PM

do u smoke weed? that could be the cause of your low sex drive and test levels if you do. IMO.

**McBain** · 12-01-2002, 01:55 AM

Just like to point out that usage of femara and/or armidex/liquidex over a long period is a really bad idea as they can really mess up your cholesterol levels. IMHO *IF* I was to choose any anti-e to take over a long period of time it would be nolv, although personally I wouldn't do it to begin with. Your body needs estrogen, at your age fucking with your endocrine system is just a bad. But that's just my 2 cents you are going to do what you are going to do. Also I don't think that this will really help you much. I think it is most likely psychological. The mind is a powerful thing.

**Lightning** · 12-01-2002, 05:41 PM

1: no i don't smoke weed.. i drink sometimes but lately not as much

2 as a response to McBain.. before i do this i am planning on getting some tests again, right now im researching on possibilities for substances, next up i'm gonna thoroughly research any and all substances i consider taking thoroughly, i won't be making a decission wthout carefully considering it first. plus i am planning on telling my doctor a "friend" is considering doing whatever i am doing.. i figure getting my doc's opinion cant hurt. even if he can't legally encourage me, he could give me an expert opinion on what could happen to my "friend".