taking vicoden on cycle

[jamyjamjr]

uhhhh.... god damn it i hate it when this shit happens to me

im about 4 weeks into a tren a test p cycle 50mg ed each...

cycles going great, dropping good bf and getting great gains..

2 days ago i felt a tickle in the back of my throat.. unfortunatly this turned out to be my wisdom tooth slowly creepin out on me (which is weird cuz i thought they had all come out)... the pain got a hell of a lot more severe yesterday, it's pushin up on my gums and at my teeth at the same time, my left cheek and jawline is swollen.. eating has become a bitch (but i have yet to break my diet)...

i went and got me some vicoden (actually just popped a couple, feelin a bit better)

obviously i wont be poppin vic's and going to the gym (common sense is not so common), but i wanna take them at night to help me sleep..

anybody got any research on codine or tynenol hindering gains??

im going to stick to my diet and workout reg. if it kills me... i cant exactly go to the dentist and have it removed cuz that would mean a week of very, very shitty eating due to stitches...

any advice appreciated

[Immortal Soldier]

Tylenol (Acetaminophen) causes roughly a ~70% drop in protein synthesis for ~3 - 4 hours after when taken. The same can be said for NSAID's such as ibuprofen, although I believe it's to a lesser degree.

I don't know how reliable those numbers are or if the same can be said about codine. If it restricts inflammation then yes.

[jamyjamjr]

well then, f*ck!!!

[Ashop]

uhhhh.... god damn it i hate it when this shit happens to me

im about 4 weeks into a tren a test p cycle 50mg ed each...

cycles going great, dropping good bf and getting great gains..

2 days ago i felt a tickle in the back of my throat.. unfortunatly this turned out to be my wisdom tooth slowly creepin out on me (which is weird cuz i thought they had all come out)... the pain got a hell of a lot more severe yesterday, it's pushin up on my gums and at my teeth at the same time, my left cheek and jawline is swollen.. eating has become a bitch (but i have yet to break my diet)...

i went and got me some vicoden (actually just popped a couple, feelin a bit better)

obviously i wont be poppin vic's and going to the gym (common sense is not so common), but i wanna take them at night to help me sleep..

anybody got any research on codine or tynenol hindering gains??

im going to stick to my diet and workout reg. if it kills me... i cant exactly go to the dentist and have it removed cuz that would mean a week of very, very shitty eating due to stitches...

any advice appreciated

Just use then if you absolutely need to. Before bed would be best.

[PT]

there are alot of pros that take opiates on a regular basis so i doubt it will cause much problems as long as you dont take them everyday and get addicted

[jamyjamjr]

yea, im not worried about the addicted part.. im in pre-hospital care, iv seen the worst of the worse and im pretty good about how i deal with certain "drugs"

[Karo]

Tylenol (Acetaminophen) causes roughly a ~70% drop in protein synthesis for ~3 - 4 hours after when taken. The same can be said for NSAID's such as ibuprofen, although I believe it's to a lesser degree.

I don't know how reliable those numbers are or if the same can be said about codine. If it restricts inflammation then yes.

Are you ****ing kidding me????? I take Tylenol with my breakfast almost every day!! I can't believe I just read this. I just researched it and the general consensus is that acetaminophen does indeed prohibit muscle growth. I have never read this anywhere before. ****ing great!
I had a bad industrial accident at the age of 20 that left me unable to walk or do much else for 3 years. 11 reconstructive surgeries later I was able to walk again and have been training ever since. I got off narcotic pain meds during the first year of my rehab and have been taking either tylenol or advil almost every day ever since (occasional narcotic meds when pain is real bad).
**** I can't believe I have never read anything about this before. I feel like I just got kicked in the nuts!! Maybe this is why i've always had such a hard time putting on weight!!!

[JiGGaMaN]

there are alot of pros that take opiates on a regular basis so i doubt it will cause much problems as long as you dont take them everyday and get addicted

they take nubain specifically, which does not contain apap or an nsaid. it supposedly reduces cortisol, although ive never looked into it.

[Ronnie Rowland]

there are alot of pros that take opiates on a regular basis so i doubt it will cause much problems as long as you dont take them everyday and get addicted

I agree with PT. Many top levels trainers use anti-inflammatories on a daily basis as well, so I wouldn't give it much thought. Get some sleep!

[The Deuce]

Dude go get it yanked... you can still maintain your diet with stitches.. trust me... whey? oatmeal?tuna? even chicken isn't hard to chew... just no steak bro... sweet potatos?? cmon you can keep on a perfect diet with STITCHES IMHO !!!

Bro it could kill you... scenario... cause abcess... abcess ruptures... infections starts pouring into your bloodstream.. on your way to your brain... death results from non -treatment to specific MRSA at that point....

YAH GO GET IT YANKED !! LIKE YESTERDAY !!!



Now that's my two cents on that AND !!!


You can train on VICODIN. It will not kill you ... although... your pain senses will be numb so you could potentially harm yerself training becaus eyour limits are over taken by the opiate numbing your mind... so yah... JMO

[JiGGaMaN]

Dude go get it yanked... you can still maintain your diet with stitches.. trust me... whey? oatmeal?tuna? even chicken isn't hard to chew... just no steak bro... sweet potatos?? cmon you can keep on a perfect diet with STITCHES IMHO !!!

Bro it could kill you... scenario... cause abcess... abcess ruptures... infections starts pouring into your bloodstream.. on your way to your brain... death results from non -treatment to specific MRSA at that point....

YAH GO GET IT YANKED !! LIKE YESTERDAY !!!



Now that's my two cents on that AND !!!


You can train on VICODIN. It will not kill you ... although... your pain senses will be numb so you could potentially harm yerself training becaus eyour limits are over taken by the opiate numbing your mind... so yah... JMO

opiates numb the mind. thats a new one...

[Immortal Soldier]

I agree with PT. Many top levels trainers use anti-inflammatories on a daily basis as well, so I wouldn't give it much thought. Get some sleep!

They are also on other drugs that the everyday steroid user is not on or even have access to. Now i agree with you, taking Ibuprofen or Tylenol isn't going to make you just stop gaining weight or something dramatic, I still think it shouldn't be used unless absolutely necessary.

[Phate]

i looked up the contraindications for vicoden and didn't see anything you should be worried about, the only thing that can be a problem with that when you take hydrocodone (vicoden consists of hydrocodone bitartrate and acetominiphen) and alcohol it can cause CNS depression

[Immortal Soldier]

i looked up the contraindications for vicoden and didn't see anything you should be worried about, the only thing that can be a problem with that when you take hydrocodone (vicoden consists of hydrocodone bitartrate and acetominiphen) and alcohol it can cause CNS depression

Tylenol (Acetaminophen) causes roughly drop in protein synthesis when taken. The same can be said for NSAID's such as ibuprofen, although it's to a lesser degree.

Obviously he will still grow, the Tylenol will hinder it to a small extent, that extent could be very minuscule or palpable i'd go with the former.

[bluesman]

NSAIDs (Your tylenols, aspirins, etc) inhibit prostaglandin synthesis. This is not related to muscle growth directly, but! Prostaglandin directs the inflammatory process, and is a key contributor to cell damage, regrowth, and ultimately, protein synthesis. Disrupt that process, and obvious implications will have to be experienced. Further, many of the NSAIDs do a number on your kidneys and liver, so lets just say that if you are taking other substances that are nephro/hepa toxic, you should take these with further caution. It is a misnomer to think that because most NSAIDs are available OTC, that they are somehow less dangerous.. We here in this forum should know that this is not necessarily the case. After all, using that logic, the opposite "all prescription drugs are highly dangerous" should be correct then, right? Doesn't seem to be the general consensus around here, right?...I digress.

Opioids (vicodin, tramadols, etc)are generally low(er) impact on kidneys and liver, but then again, these are easy to use incorrectly, and often are. Also, these drugs are not as useful in reducing swelling/ inflammation, so their impact on muscle growth cannot be as easily measured, but is definitely impacted through reasons beyond the scope of this thread. Bradykinins, endorphins and cell processes are effected etc. Opioids are also CNS and respiratory depressants (good things to have fully intact when exercising). They do affect the dopamine endorphin function in the brain, that is a key mechanism in the release of cortisol though. For acute pain, they are better used "around the clock" for a set duration of time, rather than as needed. If you only use when your pain is peaking, you WILL develop tolerance. Tolerance can lead to the need for increased dosage, lowering the effective overall therapeutic range of the drug, dependence, addiction, etc .

tl;dr
Get the tooth pulled! Take it easy for a day or two, and then get back to the gym.

Hope this helped as you have helped me a lot in the recent past.

[Discipline_1]

if you are using a 17aa oral in your cycle then i would suggest milk thistle or liv 52, when i was taking dbol 40mg/day, two cycles ago, i also had a tooth problem and was prescribed hydrocodone, the acetametophine will def. increase liver enzymes, during this cycle i got blood work done and my liver values were noticebly higher when i took the hydrocodone along with the dbol compared to when i took just the dbol

[jamyjamjr]

NSAIDs (Your tylenols, aspirins, etc) inhibit prostaglandin synthesis. This is not related to muscle growth directly, but! Prostaglandin directs the inflammatory process, and is a key contributor to cell damage, regrowth, and ultimately, protein synthesis. Disrupt that process, and obvious implications will have to be experienced. Further, many of the NSAIDs do a number on your kidneys and liver, so lets just say that if you are taking other substances that are nephro/hepa toxic, you should take these with further caution. It is a misnomer to think that because most NSAIDs are available OTC, that they are somehow less dangerous.. We here in this forum should know that this is not necessarily the case. After all, using that logic, the opposite "all prescription drugs are highly dangerous" should be correct then, right? Doesn't seem to be the general consensus around here, right?...I digress.

Opioids (vicodin, tramadols, etc)are generally low(er) impact on kidneys and liver, but then again, these are easy to use incorrectly, and often are. Also, these drugs are not as useful in reducing swelling/ inflammation, so their impact on muscle growth cannot be as easily measured, but is definitely impacted through reasons beyond the scope of this thread. Bradykinins, endorphins and cell processes are effected etc. Opioids are also CNS and respiratory depressants (good things to have fully intact when exercising). They do affect the dopamine endorphin function in the brain, that is a key mechanism in the release of cortisol though. For acute pain, they are better used "around the clock" for a set duration of time, rather than as needed. If you only use when your pain is peaking, you WILL develop tolerance. Tolerance can lead to the need for increased dosage, lowering the effective overall therapeutic range of the drug, dependence, addiction, etc .

tl;dr
Get the tooth pulled! Take it easy for a day or two, and then get back to the gym.

Hope this helped as you have helped me a lot in the recent past.

great post man... that's just good karma comin back my way

appreciate it...

but for the tooth pulling, im sure i wont be able to eat well for a coupla days and im mid cycle right now with 6 weeks left... dont wanna risk it (gonna try to ride it out)

[jamyjamjr]

if you are using a 17aa oral in your cycle then i would suggest milk thistle or liv 52, when i was taking dbol 40mg/day, two cycles ago, i also had a tooth problem and was prescribed hydrocodone, the acetametophine will def. increase liver enzymes, during this cycle i got blood work done and my liver values were noticebly higher when i took the hydrocodone along with the dbol compared to when i took just the dbol

noted

[xxxJUICExxx]

habout THC guys...?

aka maryjane

[kalspic]

will you ride it out past pct or after your last shot just getting it pulled before you start pct

[Tigershark]

This is good to hear. I took some Tylenol last night for a headache, did not really need it but the hadache was annoying.

[Phate]

Tylenol (Acetaminophen) causes roughly drop in protein synthesis when taken. The same can be said for NSAID's such as ibuprofen, although it's to a lesser degree.

Obviously he will still grow, the Tylenol will hinder it to a small extent, that extent could be very minuscule or palpable i'd go with the former.

agreed^^^ but as that was already stated i didn't see the need to mention it again, i was thinking more along the lines of a contraindicator he might take on cycle(like a CNS stimulant) that could cause serious side effects

[Karo]

Tylenol (Acetaminophen) causes roughly a ~70% drop in protein synthesis for ~3 - 4 hours after when taken. The same can be said for NSAID's such as ibuprofen, although I believe it's to a lesser degree.

I don't know how reliable those numbers are or if the same can be said about codine. If it restricts inflammation then yes.

So I have been taking acetaminophen every day for the last year (sometimes 3-4/day). I have also taken it every day since I started my cycle. I have been training like an animal, kept my diet 100% perfect and doing everything I possibly can to grow. I mean down to a T!
Would it make sense to assume that I have only achieved 30% of what I SHOULD have achieved because of taking Tylenol every day?
I know that it can have adverse effects on the liver but I have my values checked every 6 months and there has never been an issue. I'm not taking any kind of AAS that is putting a strain on my liver either. Needless to say i've stopped taking Tylenol and made an appointment with my Dr to try and get something else for the pain. What a kick in the balls!

[Phate]

So I have been taking acetaminophen every day for the last year (sometimes 3-4/day). I have also taken it every day since I started my cycle. I have been training like an animal, kept my diet 100% perfect and doing everything I possibly can to grow. I mean down to a T!
Would it make sense to assume that I have only achieved 30% of what I SHOULD have achieved because of taking Tylenol every day?
I know that it can have adverse effects on the liver but I have my values checked every 6 months and there has never been an issue. I'm not taking any kind of AAS that is putting a strain on my liver either. Needless to say i've stopped taking Tylenol and made an appointment with my Dr to try and get something else for the pain. What a kick in the balls!

the better question is why are you taking that much that often?

[dehydromethandrotren]

take them to deal with serious pain, just keep it under control. It won't help you at all besides negating the pain but, if it is kept to a minimum and eventually discontinued, you will be fine IMO.

Vicodin is extremely addictive to me. The only thing that is really.

[Immortal Soldier]

agreed^^^ but as that was already stated i didn't see the need to mention it again, i was thinking more along the lines of a contraindicator he might take on cycle(like a CNS stimulant) that could cause serious side effects

My bad, I thought you didn't realize that vicodin contained acetaminophen and were just speaking about the CNS effect.

So I have been taking acetaminophen every day for the last year (sometimes 3-4/day). I have also taken it every day since I started my cycle. I have been training like an animal, kept my diet 100% perfect and doing everything I possibly can to grow. I mean down to a T!
Would it make sense to assume that I have only achieved 30% of what I SHOULD have achieved because of taking Tylenol every day?
I know that it can have adverse effects on the liver but I have my values checked every 6 months and there has never been an issue. I'm not taking any kind of AAS that is putting a strain on my liver either. Needless to say i've stopped taking Tylenol and made an appointment with my Dr to try and get something else for the pain. What a kick in the balls!

I doubt it had a 70% reduction on protein synthesis rate while you were cycle, if I were to guess it would be a small amount between 5-10% or similar to running an AI on cycle.

It's hard to say, unless someone posts studies of the use of acetaminophen on patients who were taking AAS for medical reasons.

[jimmyinkedup]

id take it before id suffer in pain - no doubt.....the impact on muscle gained / retained would be minimal in the short term im sure.......
hell to be honest when i was younger and started cycling i popped percocet like they were hard candy and i grew like crazy.... (they also contain acetaminophen) ...

[Phate]

My bad, I thought you didn't realize that vicodin contained acetaminophen and were just speaking about the CNS effect.


it's all good bro, i can see where my post might suggest that, lol

I doubt it had a 70% reduction on protein synthesis rate while you were cycle, if I were to guess it would be a small amount between 5-10% or similar to running an AI on cycle.

It's hard to say, unless someone posts studies of the use of acetaminophen on patients who were taking AAS for medical reasons.

LMAO, that'll be the day

[Karo]

the better question is why are you taking that much that often?

I wrote this in a post earlier in the thread:

"I had a bad industrial accident at the age of 20 that left me unable to walk or do much else for 3 years. 11 reconstructive surgeries later I was able to walk again and have been training ever since. I got off narcotic pain meds during the first year of my rehab and have been taking either tylenol or advil almost every day ever since (occasional narcotic meds when pain is real bad)."

I could still be on narcotic pain meds if I wanted to be. I took myself off them after all my surgeries were done. I thought I was doing good by stopping them and taking Tylenol instead. Now i'm questioning that decision.

[jamyjamjr]

will you ride it out past pct or after your last shot just getting it pulled before you start pct

past pct

[Phate]

I wrote this in a post earlier in the thread:

"I had a bad industrial accident at the age of 20 that left me unable to walk or do much else for 3 years. 11 reconstructive surgeries later I was able to walk again and have been training ever since. I got off narcotic pain meds during the first year of my rehab and have been taking either tylenol or advil almost every day ever since (occasional narcotic meds when pain is real bad)."

I could still be on narcotic pain meds if I wanted to be. I took myself off them after all my surgeries were done. I thought I was doing good by stopping them and taking Tylenol instead. Now i'm questioning that decision.

no, your decision was the right one IMO, one thing my dad always tells me(he's a nationally accredited doctor) is that almost all medications, especially painkillers, antidepressants, etc... are POISONS, that is how they work, they poison the body into creating a response that is favorable to the patient

but remember, at the end of the day, they are poisons and taking any poison for a prolonged period of time is never a good thing

[Karo]

I doubt it had a 70% reduction on protein synthesis rate while you were cycle, if I were to guess it would be a small amount between 5-10% or similar to running an AI on cycle.

It's hard to say, unless someone posts studies of the use of acetaminophen on patients who were taking AAS for medical reasons.

Man I hope not. I honestly thought that I should have gained more than 12-15lbs (probably 1/3 water) from 8 weeks of 600mgs Test E with a good dose of Deca /Primo mixed in.
Test E/Deca Cycle
I kept telling myself to stop worrying, keep training and the gains will come. I don't really work this time of year so I have a lot of time to devote to training, eating right, research etc and I have gave it 100%. For me to find out now that I could have been working against myself by taking a couple of Tylenol every day is a crushing blow. Like I mentioned I stopped taking it and the pain sucks but now i'll see if I start making gains faster than I have before.
I'll post my results in this thread a month from now when I have a verdict.

Karo

[Immortal Soldier]

Man I hope not. I honestly thought that I should have gained more than 12-15lbs (probably 1/3 water) from 8 weeks of 600mgs Test E with a good dose of Deca /Primo mixed in.
Test E/Deca Cycle
I kept telling myself to stop worrying, keep training and the gains will come. I don't really work this time of year so I have a lot of time to devote to training, eating right, research etc and I have gave it 100%. For me to find out now that I could have been working against myself by taking a couple of Tylenol every day is a crushing blow. Like I mentioned I stopped taking it and the pain sucks but now i'll see if I start making gains faster than I have before.
I'll post my results in this thread a month from now when I have a verdict.

Karo

it takes 4-5 weeks for test-e to build up in the blood and you ran the cycle only for 8 weeks?

Don't blame it on the Tylenol I would blame it on the cycle length, still good results.

[dehydromethandrotren]

I THOUGHT IBUPROFEN WAS caps....... the only pain releiver that inhibited protein synthesis almost completely.....?

[Phate]

I THOUGHT IBUPROFEN WAS caps....... the only pain releiver that inhibited protein synthesis almost completely.....?

huh?

[Immortal Soldier]

i thought ibuprofen was caps....... The only pain releiver that inhibited protein synthesis almost completely.....?

lol wut?

[Karo]

it takes 4-5 weeks for test-e to build up in the blood and you ran the cycle only for 8 weeks?
Don't blame it on the Tylenol I would blame it on the cycle length, still good results.

No, not at all. I'm IN week 8 of the cycle. I'm running it for 14 weeks.

[jamyjamjr]

i ****ing hate vicoden.. got me scratching my nose all day yesterday..

fcuk this drug...

[JiGGaMaN]

i ****ing hate vicoden.. got me scratching my nose all day yesterday..

fcuk this drug...

thats from histamine release. take an anti-histamine and problem solved.

[jamyjamjr]

thats from histamine release. take an anti-histamine and problem solved.

yea that crossed my mind also, but im already drowsy from the vic's, if i add an anti-histamine, it'll put me to sleep