stacking Yohimburn DF and Bromocriptine

[yoshimat]

Has anyone done this?

Is it OK to stack them?

I am really going to put the attack on these crappy puffyed out nips and want to go all out. This seems to cover the bases.

I will be dieting and also taking anavar at 50mg per day.

[H BOMB]

well bro when my bromo gets here for at least a week i will be on all these things together. therapy- clomid/nolva/bromo
cutting- 2weeks clen /yohimburn
2weeks eca/yohimburn

so all i can say is i'll let ya know what happens

[BiG RED twentytwelve]

I've actually read bromo decreases testosterone . Unless your prolactin levels are way above normal, low levels of prolactin result in lowered test levels.

see below

[BiG RED twentytwelve]

this is from nandi12 over at cuttingedge
-------------------

I really don't see how. While it's true that elevated prolactin levels suppress testosterone production, and dopamine agonists reverse this by lowering prolactin, I have never seen any evidence that anabolic steroids acutely elevate prolactin, or that prolactin levels are elevated post-cycle. In fact, in the only study I have seen on the effects of chronic AAS use in humans, prolactin levels are depressed (see below).

Bromocriptine and other dopaminergic agonists may actually hinder recovery. I read your rat studies, but the situation seems different in vivo in humans and primates in general:


Fertil Steril 1991 Feb;55(2):355-7

Effects of chronic bromocriptine-induced hypoprolactinemia on plasma testosterone responses to human chorionic gonadotropin stimulation in normal men.

Oseko F, Nakano A, Morikawa K, Endo J, Taniguchi A, Usui T.

Department of Medicine, Shimane Medical University, Japan.

To study the role played by normal levels of plasma prolactin (PRL) in the secretion of testosterone (T) in the testes, we induced hypoprolactinemia with a daily dose of 5 mg bromocriptine administered orally in five normal men 20 to 35 years of age for 8 weeks. The basal PRL, T, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and maximum responses of plasma T to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG ) stimulation were measured every 2 weeks.Basal levels of plasma T were reduced in the 1st 2-week-long period of hypoprolactinemia. In the 4-week-long period of hypoprolactinemia, the maximal response of plasma T to hCG stimulation was significantly reduced. The findings suggest that normal levels of plasma PRL may play an important role in the secretion of T in the human testes in vivo.


Andrologia 1990 May-Jun;22(3):251-9

Effect of modulating endogenous prolactin secretion on testosterone production in the adult male bonnet monkey (Macaca radiata).

Rao AJ, Rani CS, Ravindranath N, Moudgal NR.

Department of Biochemistry, Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore.

Adult male bonnet monkeys maintained under regulated light: dark conditions exhibit a nycthemeral surge of testosterone. The present study attempts to determine the effect of administration of drugs that modulate prolactin levels like ergobromocriptine (EBC) and chlorpromazine (CPZ) on testosterone production.The injection of EBC, a known inhibitor of prolactin secretion, could abolish nocturnal testosterone surge irrespective of the drug being given at 8.00 or 17.00 h. Testosterone surge could likewise be inhibited by treating animals with CPZ, a potent stimulator of prolactin secretion. This suggests that alteration in endogenous prolactin level from the normal effects nycthemeral surges of testosterone. The in vivo responsiveness of the testes of monkeys injected either CPZ oder EBC to exogenous LH or LHRH stimulation was tested. While LH could completely override the CPZ induced inhibition in testosterone production it could only partially reverse the EBC effect.

Life Sci 2001 Mar 2;68(15):1769-74

Effect of androgenic anabolic steroids on sperm quality and serum hormone levels in adult male bodybuilders.

Torres-Calleja J, Gonzalez-Unzaga M, DeCelis-Carrillo R, Calzada-Sanchez L, Pedron N.

Unidad de Investigacion Medica en Biologia de la Reproduccion, Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social, Mexico, DF.

The purpose of this study was to assess the influence of the administration of high doses of androgenic anabolic steroids (AAS) on endocrine and semen parameters. Thirty volunteering bodybuilders were studied (ages ranging between 26.6 +/- 4.1 years). A history of anabolic steroid administration was recorded for fifteen subjects, and results of semen analysis and endocrine parameters were compared with data from fifteen bodybuilders not using steroids. In those subjects using AAS, eight had sperm counts under the lower normal limit (20 x 10(6) sperm/ml), three had azoospermia, two polyzoospermia, and two had normal sperm counts. The percentage of morphologically normal sperm was significantly reduced, only 17.7% had normal spermatozoa. In the control group, only one subject had oligozoospermia.The hormonal parameters revealed reduced FSH (1.5 +/- 3.2 vs 5.0 +/- 1.6, p < 0.001) and PRL (5.1 +/- 4.9 vs 9.2 +/- 4.4, p < 0.01) levels. LH, T, E2 and DHEA levels did not vary.

[BiG RED twentytwelve]

another:
----------

Nippon Naibunpi Gakkai Zasshi 1985 Jun 20;61(6):701-9

The effects of bromocriptine on the pulsatile pattern and the circadian profile of gonadotropins and testosterone secretion in normal adult men

Aisaka K, Ogawa T, Mori H, Kigawa T.

To investigate the effects of bromocriptine on the secretion mechanism of pituitary gonadotropins and testosterone, 5 mg of bromocriptine was administered to five young adult men who were normal in their endocrinological states. Blood samplings were taken from two hours before until six hours after the administration every 15 min., and after that, blood samplings were continued until 21 hours every one hour by an intravenous indwelling catheter. Serum FSH, LH, prolactin and testosterone levels were determined by RIA, and the changes of the pulsatile patterns of FSH and LH, and the circadian profile of these hormones by the administration of bromocriptine were analysed. Serum prolactin levels decreased significantly (p less than 0.005) from two hours after the administration of bromocriptine and remained in a very low range until the end of the experiment. The basal levels of FSH showed a significant decrease from two to six hours after the administration (p less than 0.005). Also the basal levels of LH showed a significant decrease from two to six hours after the administration (p less than 0.005). However, the basal levels of serum FSH and LH did not show significant decreases after that until the end of the experiment. No significant change was observed in the amplitude or the frequency of the pulsatile patterns of FSH and LH until six hours after the administration of bromocriptine. The serum levels of testosterone were also significantly decreased from two to six hours after the administration (p less than 0.005), but they did not show a significant decrease after that until the end of the experiment

[leonman]

read this:

http://www.qfac.com/articles/bromo_add.html

[macrophage69alpha]

most people using AS have high prolactin levels...
most people using bromocriptine are using it to treat prolactin induced puffyness..

as far as is known.. users have reported no adverse effects due to the combination of yohimburn and bromocriptine..

[macrophage69alpha]

btw- lower doses are probably better..
perhaps 1/4 tab eod or e3d.

[leonman]

Macro>
Do you have any studies that AS, e.g. 19-nortestosterones increases prolactin levels?

Greetings
Leonman

[macrophage69alpha]

progestins have been shown to influence prolactin both positively and negatively... anti progestins like ru486 suppress it.. however most progestins are both angonist antagonists.. thus winstrol which is considered a mild anti progestin.. may in fact raise prolactin..

the research has not been done.. but there are strong indications that both tren and nandrolone increase prolactin since the puffyness and gyno both respond to prolactin suppression..


Mol Hum Reprod 2001 Apr;7(4):341-7 Related Articles, Links


The inhibitory effect of dienogest, a synthetic steroid , on the growth of human endometrial stromal cells in vitro.

Okada H, Nakajima T, Yoshimura T, Yasuda K, Kanzaki H.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Kansai Medical University, Moriguchi 570-8507, Japan. [email protected]

Dienogest is a synthetic steroid that has been used as a progestogen in contraceptive pills and is currently being studied for its possible clinical use in the treatment of endometriosis. In this study, we investigated the direct effects of dienogest in differentiation and proliferation of human endometrial stromal cells (ESC) in vitro. After 12 days in the presence of oestradiol (10(-8) mol/l) plus dienogest (10(-6) mol/l), cultured ESC underwent morphological differentiation and produced prolactin, a typical marker for decidualization. By using Northern blot analysis and radioimmunoassay, it was shown that treatment of ESC with oestradiol (10(-8) mol/l) plus dienogest (10(-9) to10(-6) mol/l) led to an increase in the levels of prolactin mRNA and prolactin production in a dose-dependent manner. Additionally, RU-486, a progesterone receptor antagonist, almost completely inhibited dienogest-induced prolactin production. As shown by the thymidine uptake method, there was a dose-dependent inhibition of ESC proliferation with dienogest (P < 0.01, control versus concentrations >10(-7) mol/l). The significant inhibition of ESC proliferation by dienogest (10(-7) mol/l) was partially reversed by RU-486 (10(-6) mol/l). In summary, dienogest directly acts on endometrial tissue in progestogenic response, such as decidualization, increased prolactin production and growth retardation. These data imply that dienogest exerts direct effect in suppressing growth of endometriotic implants.

1: J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1985 Mar;60(3):575-8 Related Articles, Links


In vivo effects of progestins on prolactin secretion.

Sitruk-Ware R, Varin C, Clair F, Maugis E, Fermanian J, Mauvais-Jarvis P.

To assess a possible inhibitory effect of progestins on PRL secretion, serum PRL and estradiol levels were determined in 13 women with hyperprolactinemia due to a pituitary microadenoma before and after 3 months of treatment with a potent progestin, lynestrenol. PRL levels also were assessed during a TRH challenge test before and after treatment. Results were compared to those obtained in 10 normal women studied during the early follicular phase of their menstrual cycle and at the end of 3 months of treatment. The PRL response to TRH was blunted in patients before lynestrenol therapy. After therapy, basal serum PRL levels were significantly decreased, and the response to TRH was almost abolished. No change occurred in the normal women. The estradiol level was 80.5 +/- 7.5 (+/- SEM) pg/ml in patients before treatment and decreased to 29.2 +/- 5.0 pg/ml after therapy. Therefore, lynestrenol, a potent 19-nortestosterone derivative, exhibits in vivo an anti-PRL effect that could be related to its antiestrogenic and/or androgenic activities.

[macrophage69alpha]

there is very strong anecdotal evidence that bromo is very helpful in restoring (at the very leat libido) as well as test levels when used after tren and deca cycles..

note that lower doses may be more effective unless very high prolactin levels.

[macrophage69alpha]

btw- believe that 1/4 tab eod is usually sufficient (though some may require higher dosages)

[leonman]

1/4 of a 2.5mg tab or 5mg tab?

I will use bromo after my bulking cycle to shed my bf down to 6% which for me is VERY low. I have gone as low as 1300 calories at 175lbs without losing fat (and yes - I did cardio!)
Hope I am not to prone to the side effects. I plan to start out at 0,625mg too check that out.
Is Lyle's book worth reading?


Greetings
Leonman

[yoshimat]

thanks for the answers.

just to be clear a low dose of bromocriptine with yohimburn is OK?

and I too was wondering if that is a 1/4 of a 2.5 or 5mg tab?

[macrophage69alpha]

Originally posted by yoshimat
thanks for the answers.

just to be clear a low dose of bromocriptine with yohimburn is OK?

and I too was wondering if that is a 1/4 of a 2.5 or 5mg tab?

even 1/4 of a 2.5 mg tab eod is effective..

[macrophage69alpha]

any updates?

[H BOMB]

it has been 2 weeks and i'm ok so far

[macrophage69alpha]

Originally posted by H BOMB
it has been 2 weeks and i'm ok so far

what dosages?

[H BOMB]

clomid went from 100mg to 50mg just the other day
nolvadex 20mg a day
bromo 1.25mg twice a day
clen 7 pills a day
yohimburn eod bf cardio in mornin on empty stomach
prob wasn't smart combining all these together huh.

[macrophage69alpha]

high end.. but not entirely excessive

[H BOMB]

hey macro when you say high end do you mean expensive or high dosages, cause the only one that looks high is the clen . i think you meant expensive though. thanks

[macrophage69alpha]

high end.. meaning... using a number of angles of attack.. dosages look fine.. though you probably could cut the bromo.. and not sure the need for either clomid or nolva (though probably better to use just one.. if really want to use)

[H BOMB]

i was coming off fina/winny/var that is why the clomid and nolva was in there.

[macrophage69alpha]

Originally posted by H BOMB
i was coming off fina/winny/var that is why the clomid and nolva was in there.

ah.

update?

[H BOMB]

everything seems cool. ran out of clomid about 10 days short so i have been doin 20mg of nolva ed and 2.5mg bromo ed. the old peter is up and runnin too. knock on wood. lol

[yoshimat]

no problems here either, feel great and puffy nipples are fading to nothing

[macrophage69alpha]

[greco]

is there anything you can take instead of bromocriptine?
I am interested in the yohimburn but the bromo kind of scares me .

any other options? because I need to get rid of these puffy nipples

[macrophage69alpha]

Originally posted by greco
is there anything you can take instead of bromocriptine?
I am interested in the yohimburn but the bromo kind of scares me .

any other options? because I need to get rid of these puffy nipples

hydergine
selegine
cabergoline
l-dopa
maca
vitex

[yoshimat]

still gone

[macrophage69alpha]

Originally posted by yoshimat
still gone

update?

[macrophage69alpha]

update .. greco?

[mocachin]

bump

any more people tried this? I plan on doing something similar soon, so I just wanted to hear a little more. already got my DF and bromo

[dork]

I have been on 1/4 tab bromo ED, L'dex .25mg EOD for about 4 weeks now. Last week i started running 20mg Nolv ED, and Applying Yohimburn 2x daily.

Im waiting to get more bromo and more nolv, i tell you guys how it goes.... (trying to reduce puffy nips)

[macrophage69alpha]

dork,

had you considered femara over dex.. its a lot stronger

[dork]

Macro, correct me if im wrong....

The reason I have puffy nips (and most) is due to either/all 3 things:

1. High BF (I can see my abs, prolly around 12-15% doubt it's cause of this)
2. Elevated Prolactin levels (Possible)
3. Estrogen induced fat (Possible)


So... Im trying to combat these 3 things from each end.

-cardio and diet [for BF reduction]
-bromo [to level out prolactin]
-nolv+yohimburn [to burn off estrogen fat, the Nolv to help break it down]


The only reason im running the l'dex is because im also midway into an EQ cycle and im playing it SUPER SUPER dafe. Im also using the l'dex just incase of an estrogen relapse due to the nolv.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

What i have been doing thus far:

I have being taking 1/4 tab of Parodel Bromo for 5 weeks now. This has reduced the puffiness in my right nipple, but not my left... I started running Nolv @ 20mg ED last week, and plan on continuing this for 2 months. I have also started applying I squirt of Yohimburn DF to each nipples 2x daily. Im also 5 weeks into my EQ ony cycle, using .25mg l'dex EOD for EXTRA protection against aromatizing (Playing it very very safe). I do 10 mins cardio before and after my workout, 6 days a week, and i eat VERY VERY clean.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Im getting more bromo and nolv within a week. Im going to up the bromo to 1/2 tab, continue using 20mg Nolv daily, continue .25mg Armidex until after my EQ cycle, and after Clomid therapy. (The nolv and bromo ill use for up to 2 months --and cardio and clean eating will continue forever).

---------------------------------------------------------------------

My expectations:

Im hoping that the increase in cardio ontop of getting a little more size from the EQ, along with the bromo/nolv/l'dex/yohimburn stack will shrink my puffiness and enlarge my chest muscles enough to have a "normal" looking chest (optimistically of course)


---------------------------------------------------------------------

A little personal background:

Got full blown hard tissue gyno 3 years ago and had it cut out. I still suffer from puffy nips (The right one is just about fine, the left puffy enough to piss me off). I think that PH's caused the gyno, but not sure. Used Nor-19, then Winny, then No-19 again. (Maybe it was because i didn't give my hormones a break, and used no clomid post Winny cycle due to being un-educated in the area)

[dork]

b.u.m.p.

[macrophage69alpha]

nolva is not as good as using femara or even dex..(though strong preference for femera or exemestane in cases like this)

nolva is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist.. while it may help in some cases.. it can actually make fat deposition WORSE in others.. (with respect to hard tissue it is good.. of course)

[macrophage69alpha]

otherwise plan looks good..

highly preferable if one Yohimburn application is prior to cardio (20-30min)

and it could not hurt to bump pre-workout cardio up to 20min

JMHO

[dork]

SHIT!

Well Im not even going to attempt something that could make my condition worse! I don't have any hard tissue in there, just a little excess fat. All the hard tissue was removed when i had surgery, the focker didn't do lipo, so now im trying to fix it myself with these drugs, but i have a feeling ill be back under the knife soon...

Running the bromo @ 1/4 tab daily helped in one side, but not the other. I guess I'll up the dosage to 1/2 tab daily --maybe even 1 full tab daily, and ill up the l'dex to at least .25mg ED (maybe even .5mg daily). Ill save the Nolv, and try to up my cardio. (I have been applying the Yohimburn on both Nips 30 mins prior to the gym. On both nips before bed, and in the morning i apply it to the one nip which is puffier)